On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:03:48 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
news:HtPfd.42899$Pl.30974@pd7tw1no...

"simy1" wrote in message
om...
Mark Herbert wrote in message
...
In article ,

I do the same. The earthworms love the stuff, and will aerate the
soil
beneath wherever you deposit it.

I use an electric mower to mulch quite a load of leaves, but if they
are
dry and I take my time, I can completely powder them in a reasonable
time. I always sharpen the blade halfway through the job.

yes. for the lawn, it is certainly a good idea to pulverize them,
though I find that even coarsely chopped they disappear by May. for
the garden, it is best not to chop them, so that they can suppress
weeds well into august the next year. and in fact it is best not to
put them on the garden during winter, but rather as far away as
possible, because they will attract rodents. it is still a good deal
work wise: to move half a ton of leaves twice (once now, once in May)
takes two or three hours. to weed the beds twice during the season can
take days of work.

I rake my leaves, not much, and the neighbors, big pile, on my beds after
they freeze up, which is very soon. Waiting like this gives less habitat
to
the mice and more constant conditions to the bulbs. By June the leaves
have
vanished.

For my lawn I rake in black compost right after the thaw. My lawn is nice
and green all year this way. (I stopped using chemical lawn amendments
three years ago.) In fact there is a sharp green line between me and the
neighbor!



Isn't that fun? I had the same situation with the lawn at my prior house,
except I never had enough compost to share between vegetables & grass. But,
I didn't bag the grass, and I mowed it as high as the mower could go. My
neighbor, on the other hand, was a ChemLawn addict, and mowed his lawn like
it was a putting green. Mine looked gorgeous, and his looked like it was
close to death, except for 2 weeks in the Spring. He was constantly coming
over and asking me what secret stuff I was using. He refused to believe that
the answer was "nothing". This went on for 10 years. The dummy never
learned.



I have a similar neighbor. He asks how my lawn is so thick, green,
and free from weeds. I tell him I mulch mow high and often and
overseed in the fall. He continues to scalp his lawn, dumps the
clippings into the stream, it's full of crab grass, has bare spots,
etc. He bought the same kind of mower I use--still he doesn't have a
clue.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:03:48 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
news:HtPfd.42899$Pl.30974@pd7tw1no...

"simy1" wrote in message
om...
Mark Herbert wrote in message
...
In article ,

I do the same. The earthworms love the stuff, and will aerate the
soil
beneath wherever you deposit it.

I use an electric mower to mulch quite a load of leaves, but if
they
are
dry and I take my time, I can completely powder them in a
reasonable
time. I always sharpen the blade halfway through the job.

yes. for the lawn, it is certainly a good idea to pulverize them,
though I find that even coarsely chopped they disappear by May. for
the garden, it is best not to chop them, so that they can suppress
weeds well into august the next year. and in fact it is best not to
put them on the garden during winter, but rather as far away as
possible, because they will attract rodents. it is still a good deal
work wise: to move half a ton of leaves twice (once now, once in May)
takes two or three hours. to weed the beds twice during the season
can
take days of work.

I rake my leaves, not much, and the neighbors, big pile, on my beds
after
they freeze up, which is very soon. Waiting like this gives less
habitat
to
the mice and more constant conditions to the bulbs. By June the leaves
have
vanished.

For my lawn I rake in black compost right after the thaw. My lawn is
nice
and green all year this way. (I stopped using chemical lawn amendments
three years ago.) In fact there is a sharp green line between me and
the
neighbor!



Isn't that fun? I had the same situation with the lawn at my prior house,
except I never had enough compost to share between vegetables & grass.
But,
I didn't bag the grass, and I mowed it as high as the mower could go. My
neighbor, on the other hand, was a ChemLawn addict, and mowed his lawn
like
it was a putting green. Mine looked gorgeous, and his looked like it was
close to death, except for 2 weeks in the Spring. He was constantly
coming
over and asking me what secret stuff I was using. He refused to believe
that
the answer was "nothing". This went on for 10 years. The dummy never
learned.



I have a similar neighbor. He asks how my lawn is so thick, green,
and free from weeds. I tell him I mulch mow high and often and
overseed in the fall. He continues to scalp his lawn, dumps the
clippings into the stream, it's full of crab grass, has bare spots,
etc. He bought the same kind of mower I use--still he doesn't have a
clue.

I should add that now that I'm divorced, my teenage son has taken over the
mowing chores. The neighbor now interrogates *him* about our deep, dark
secret. My son, who inherited my evil mind, has two ideas, both of which I
condone completely:

1) Come up with some sort of concoction that's harmless to people, plants
and cats, and give the neighbor the recipe. Tell him it's what we use, and
that when he used to see me out at night having a cigarette, I was preparing
to apply the stuff with a spray bottle. Sample recipe: A strained broth made
after boiling broccolli stems, dogwood bark and fill in the blank. Maybe
Band-Aids.

2) One part of our lawn consisted of 50% bindweed at certain times of year.
Awful weed, but when the grass was suffering in hot weather, the bindweed
was rockin', so at least it was soft and green. My son wants to give the
neighbor a few diggings of bindweed, and tell him it helps keep nitrogen
available to the lawn.

If you've ever inquired at a cooperative extension about getting rid of
bindweed, they'll tell you that you need to use chemicals which make agent
orange look like herb tea. :-)

close to death, except for 2 weeks in the Spring. He was constantly coming
over and asking me what secret stuff I was using. He refused to believe that
the answer was "nothing". This went on for 10 years. The dummy never

When we bought the house we're in now, it had serious drainage problems
in the back yard. Any heavy rain would result in a sheet of water
sweeping across the yard and down toward the house (yes, it's Florida,
but it has some slope nonetheless), with often a large pool between our
house and the next door neighbor. Oh, and sometimes it hit the crawl
space access door and ran under the house.

Doesn't happen any more.

Oh, at first we built a bit of a berm to divert the flow away from the
house. And we had gutters put on the house and piped the water to the
ditch, which helped some with the pools.

But mostly what I did was the same as you: nothing. Didn't hire a yard
man to come in with his boom-boom tractor mower every week and scalp
the yard to within an inch of its life (like the previous owner and
probably the one before her). Didn't go woosh woosh with a leaf blower
and take away the dead leaves and cut grass and other organic material.
Let the weeds grow where the ground had been made bare by mowing where
no grass grew anyway. And lo and behold, after a year or so, the rain
no longer ran off. Am I not a genius? That or lazy.

Oh, I want to get rid of the grass. I'm trying to kill it. I have too
much shade for a good lawn. I'd rather have flower beds and bushes and
use some liriope where I need ground cover. But the principle is the
same.

Edward

(Jay Chan) wrote:

Exactly, if there is a lot of leaves, mulching alone will still leave
a layer of mulch leaves on the grass; they just cannot decompose fast
enough -- not good.

Do you shovel the snow from your grass also?!?! It is the same idea.
When the temperatures are cool and the grass is covered by leaves or
snow, it goes dormant. By spring the snow and leaves are all gone and
the grass is greener than ever. I have been mulching leaves for 40
years and the lawn loves it. By mid winter there is no sign of any
leaves. After we have snow, the lawn snaps back greener than ever. For
this to work best you need to leave a little length to the grass.
Leaving mulched leaves on a putting green doesn't work as well, but
cutting grass short like a putting green is the worst thing you can do
to normal grass (fescue, rye & bluegrass).

"Doug Kanter" wrote:

2) One part of our lawn consisted of 50% bindweed at certain times of year.
Awful weed, but when the grass was suffering in hot weather, the bindweed
was rockin', so at least it was soft and green. My son wants to give the
neighbor a few diggings of bindweed, and tell him it helps keep nitrogen
available to the lawn.

If you've ever inquired at a cooperative extension about getting rid of
bindweed, they'll tell you that you need to use chemicals which make agent
orange look like herb tea. :-)

Now this is malicious and is probably actionable in court. In fact it
breaks some laws about proliferation of noxious weeds. Since you
published this in this thread, you can't plead ignorance and deny
malice.

Field bindweed is a declared plant (noxious weed) throughout Western
Australia and many other places. It is illegal to grow it and any
plants found must be destroyed.

University of Nebraska recommends fall is an excellent time to apply
herbicides for control of perennial weeds like Canada thistle, field
bindweed and leafy spurge. Oregon State University agrees with this and
suggests that application timing be about 1 week prior to the first
frost.

"Stephen M. Henning" wrote in message
news
"Doug Kanter" wrote:

2) One part of our lawn consisted of 50% bindweed at certain times of
year.
Awful weed, but when the grass was suffering in hot weather, the
bindweed
was rockin', so at least it was soft and green. My son wants to give the
neighbor a few diggings of bindweed, and tell him it helps keep nitrogen
available to the lawn.

If you've ever inquired at a cooperative extension about getting rid of
bindweed, they'll tell you that you need to use chemicals which make
agent
orange look like herb tea. :-)

Now this is malicious and is probably actionable in court. In fact it
breaks some laws about proliferation of noxious weeds. Since you
published this in this thread, you can't plead ignorance and deny
malice.

Field bindweed is a declared plant (noxious weed) throughout Western
Australia and many other places. It is illegal to grow it and any
plants found must be destroyed.

University of Nebraska recommends fall is an excellent time to apply
herbicides for control of perennial weeds like Canada thistle, field
bindweed and leafy spurge. Oregon State University agrees with this and
suggests that application timing be about 1 week prior to the first
frost.

We don't apply herbicides. They can't be tested for safety according to good
scientific practices.

"Jim Carlock" wrote in message . ..

LOL Brings back memories...

I ruined a mower when I was kid. The grass grew to one
foot high and it was my turn to mow!

The mowers should have bigger engines. That nice 454 cubic
inch in the '71 Buick Riviera would have worked great! Or
was it a 455? I know it had a Rochester four-barrel carb.

Back then... just talking the bigs one, Buicks had 455s, Olds and
Pontiac has 455s as well, Chevys had 454s, AMC 401s, Dodges had 440s
and Fords had 427s, 428s and 429s.

Patrick (also an auto enthusiast)

interesting... did I read it on here that earthworms arent native to the US? and
that the earthworm activity in forests is overworking the soil in forests leading to
lower fertility. Ingrid


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
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endorsements or recommendations I make.

"Doug Kanter" wrote:

We don't apply herbicides. They can't be tested for safety according to good
scientific practices.

Are you saying that boiling water isn't safe??? It is one of the oldest
herbicides known to mankind. Others include the absence of light and
fire, both of which have been used for centuries. It is possible to
kill plants safely even if you are afraid of more complex chemicals.

Do you shovel the snow from your grass also?!?! It is the same idea.
When the temperatures are cool and the grass is covered by leaves or
snow, it goes dormant. By spring the snow and leaves are all gone and
the grass is greener than ever. I have been mulching leaves for 40
years and the lawn loves it. By mid winter there is no sign of any
leaves. After we have snow, the lawn snaps back greener than ever. For
this to work best you need to leave a little length to the grass...

Glad to hear that mulching all the leaves works for you.

But this doesn't work for me. Mulching alone just cannot take care of
the large amount of leaves on my lawn. When I tried that, I ended up
getting a layer of yellow or red shredded leaves on my lawn. The large
amount of yellow/red shredded leaves could not blend in with the green
lawn. This creates a very messy look. And I am not cutting the grass
short either. I cut them at the recommended height for my Kentucky
Bluegrass -- 3". Good thing I can use the shredded leaves in my
compost piles; therefore, the only difference between mulching the
leaves and shredding-bagging-and-composting the leaves is the number
of trips to my compost piles. This is really no big deal for me. I can
live with this rather than leaving the lawn in a very messy look.

When I am mowing the lawn, I almost always mulch the grass. The
shredded green leaves blend in perfectly with the green lawn. But I
will not do this with leaves, especially a large amount of leaves.

I think this depends on whether someone can live with the messy look,
and whether the extra trips to the compost pipes is too much a trouble
for that person, and whether that person has a compost pile at all. If
that person doesn't have a compost pile, and if he can live with the
messy look, I guess he will be better off mulching the leaves to add
the organic matters back to the lawn.

Jay Chan

On 1 Nov 2004 11:20:23 -0800, (Jay Chan) in rec.gardens
wrote:

I think this depends on whether someone can live with the messy look,
and whether the extra trips to the compost pipes is too much a trouble
for that person, and whether that person has a compost pile at all. If
that person doesn't have a compost pile, and if he can live with the
messy look, I guess he will be better off mulching the leaves to add
the organic matters back to the lawn.

Jay Chan

I think it has to do with the *amount* of the leaves.

A lot of people think that a single layer is a fall's worth and they are
unfamiliar with leaves several inches deep in late november.
(I wish I was unfamiliar with that)

FACE

I think it has to do with the *amount* of the leaves.

Exactly.

A lot of people think that a single layer is a fall's worth and they are
unfamiliar with leaves several inches deep in late november.

The other possible factor may have to do with the kind of grass that
the lawn has. If the lawn has warm season grass, the grass probably
turn brown or yellow when the weather gets cold in cold region. In
this case, someone probably can let shredded leaves on the lawn and
let them decompose. The color of the shredded leaves probably blend in
well with the color of the dormant grass. Actually, I don't know if
this is true or not because I have never seen this in practice.
Anyway, I have cold season grass on my lawn that stays green in fall
and winter. Shredded yellow/brown leaves simply cannot blend in well
with green grass.

Jay Chan

(Jay Chan) wrote:

I have cold season grass on my lawn that stays green in fall
and winter. Shredded yellow/brown leaves simply cannot blend in well
with green grass.

Our cold season grass (rye, fescue, blue grass) stays green in spring
and fall, but turns brown in the winter when the ground freezes solid
and there is snow on the ground. The only thing green then is the
dandelions and plantain and, by spring, the dead nettle is coming strong.

Our cold season grass (rye, fescue, blue grass) stays green in spring
and fall, but turns brown in the winter when the ground freezes solid
and there is snow on the ground. The only thing green then is the
dandelions and plantain and, by spring, the dead nettle is coming strong.

This is not my experience. The bluegrass in my lawn stay green through
out the winter. The differences in our experiences may be caused by:

1. I am in zone-6. May be you are in much colder region.

2. May be our definition of "green" is different. For me,
"off-green" is still green.

One more thing is that I am under the impression that "rye" is not as
cold tolerate as other cold season grass. If you have plenty of rye in
your lawn, they "may" die and turn brown in very cold weather.
Honestly, I am not exactly sure about this because I don't
intentionally seed rye in my lawn, and have very little experience
with rye.

Anyway, if your lawn turned brown in winter, the shredded brown leaves
probably can blend well on the lawn. And I can understand why you have
no problem leaving shredded leaves on the lawn.

Have a good weekend!

Jay Chan