Well apparently there are quite a few missing friends from our cyber backyard. Grdngal has lost her newsgroups capability, and now I've found that the other Marilyn up in Ohio has lost HER newsgroups thanks to AOL dropping them. This is horrible!! It's like walking down the street to visit a friend's garden and discovering in the night that the whole yard has been whisked away! I guess I'll have to personally e-mail some of my garden friends to see if they're having newsgroup withdrawal. I wonder why AOL would do this? (and the server that Pam, aka grdngal, has)
madgardener up on the snowy ridge, where we FINALLY got snow (it's all gone Eastwards to North Carolina every time!) back in Faerie Holler, overlooking a beautiful wintery English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7?, Sunset zone 36

They can use Google.com to read and post to Newsgroup, even if they are silly enough to stay with AOL.

I would guess AOL did this for at least a couple of reasons.
-Newsgroup activity can use up a lot of bandwidth and AOL is slow enough the way it is, some readers download and upload a great deal of data.
-AOL can not put spam pop-ups in your newsgroup, they want you back on their home page, clicking and buying it up, reading their advertisements.

Cheers,
Jim
"madgardener" wrote in message ...
Well apparently there are quite a few missing friends from our cyber backyard. Grdngal has lost her newsgroups capability, and now I've found that the other Marilyn up in Ohio has lost HER newsgroups thanks to AOL dropping them. This is horrible!! It's like walking down the street to visit a friend's garden and discovering in the night that the whole yard has been whisked away! I guess I'll have to personally e-mail some of my garden friends to see if they're having newsgroup withdrawal. I wonder why AOL would do this? (and the server that Pam, aka grdngal, has)
madgardener up on the snowy ridge, where we FINALLY got snow (it's all gone Eastwards to North Carolina every time!) back in Faerie Holler, overlooking a beautiful wintery English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7?, Sunset zone 36

ISPs know that only a tiny fraction of their customers use, or even know
about, usenet, yet it ties up a lot of their time and equipment. They
can improve their earnings by dropping usenet, as only a few customers
will leave when they do that. Some ISPs just eliminate the equipment
for usenet, and buy feed from one of the usenet services, at a discount.
Mine does that and we never knew it when they made the switch, but now
when I ask them to add a newsgroup, they say they can't, as it is out of
their control.

Google can be used, or if you want the best service, you can sign up
with one of the usenet providers; I think most cost about $10 a month.

madgardener wrote:
Well apparently there are quite a few missing friends from our cyber
backyard. Grdngal has lost her newsgroups capability, and now I've
found that the other Marilyn up in Ohio has lost HER newsgroups thanks
to AOL dropping them. This is horrible!! It's like walking down the
street to visit a friend's garden and discovering in the night that the
whole yard has been whisked away! I guess I'll have to personally
e-mail some of my garden friends to see if they're having newsgroup
withdrawal. I wonder why AOL would do this? (and the server that Pam,
aka grdngal, has)
madgardener up on the snowy ridge, where we FINALLY got snow (it's all
gone Eastwards to North Carolina every time!) back in Faerie Holler,
overlooking a beautiful wintery English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee,
zone 7?, Sunset zone 36

--
SPAMBLOCK NOTICE! To reply to me, delete the h from apkh.net, if it is
there.

Play4abuck wrote:
I would guess AOL did this for at least a couple of reasons.
-Newsgroup activity can use up a lot of bandwidth and AOL is slow
enough the way it is,
some readers download and upload a great deal of data.

So few ISP customers even know what newsgroups are that bandwidth is not
an issue. In the case of AOL, a proprietary interface was used (you
couldn't use a real newsreader), and it was crappy enough for text
messages. I seriously doubt that they had a problem with people
downloading or uploading huge quanities of binaries.


-AOL can not put spam pop-ups in your newsgroup, they want you back
on their
home page, clicking and buying it up, reading their advertisements.

It's been a while since you've been on AOL, hasn't it. Or do you not
have any personal experience, and are just perpetuating misconceptions
held dear by so many others who also really don't have any personal
experience?

Quite simplely the issue is that not enough people used newsgroups on
AOL to make it worth the expense. AOL may be one of the first to
completely dump Usenet because they had the additional costs associated
with their proprietary interface (or a choice of revamping the service
to allow real nntp traffic.)

Other ISP's are finding their costs too high even without an interface
to maintain. The first step, which is already pretty common, is
outsourcing their Usenet servers. Next will come limiting monthly
transfers to contain the costs of providing wholesale accounts to
customers. Eventually Usenet will be dropped completely. For many ISP's,
even if they lost every single customer to whom Usenet service is
important, they'd still come out ahead. And once their compeditors stop
offering unlimited Usenet, the likelyhood of losing any customers goes
down.

The bottom line is if every ISP dropped Usenet service tomorrow, it
might make the headlines at some techie websites, and it might be worth
a column inch or two on an inside page of the local paper's business
section, but it wouldn't even get a passing mention on the nightly news.
We Usenet users are a very small faction in today's gentified Internet
community.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Black and Decker cordless landscaping tools:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html

Hi Madgardener,

Your cyber friends can reach these posts at a free forum where I access it. It's the General Gardening catagory.
https://www.gardenbanter.co.uk/

Newt

Newt expounded:


Your cyber friends can reach these posts at a free forum where I access
it. It's the General Gardening catagory.
http://tinyurl.com/57ofx

My goodness, Newt, you have the best links! Thanx for posting that
one!
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

Hi Ann,

You gave me a giggle. You should see how 'stuffed' my bookmarks are!

Newt

makes sense to me. That and my server's secretary said that the lovers of porn were messing it up for those of us who garden. (don't flame me about the porn comment, what you look at is your business and part of freedoms taken forgranted, I just don't agree with pushing your tastes on those who don't want it). The band width thing is exactly what is all the hubbub. I myself despise that all those pop up's are everywhere and that they're also applying tracking methods to monitor me. I can't visit my comics page without my spydoc telling me I'm stepping into shark infested waters................sigh........................ ...
madgardener who got another good inch and quarter of needed snow up on the ridge, back in Faerie Holler, overlooking a snowy and picturesque English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee zone 7?, Sunset zone 36
"Play4abuck" wrote in message news:4J3Vd.9$Wy.4@okepread02...
They can use Google.com to read and post to Newsgroup, even if they are silly enough to stay with AOL.

I would guess AOL did this for at least a couple of reasons.
-Newsgroup activity can use up a lot of bandwidth and AOL is slow enough the way it is, some readers download and upload a great deal of data.
-AOL can not put spam pop-ups in your newsgroup, they want you back on their home page, clicking and buying it up, reading their advertisements.

Cheers,
Jim
"madgardener" wrote in message ...
Well apparently there are quite a few missing friends from our cyber backyard. Grdngal has lost her newsgroups capability, and now I've found that the other Marilyn up in Ohio has lost HER newsgroups thanks to AOL dropping them. This is horrible!! It's like walking down the street to visit a friend's garden and discovering in the night that the whole yard has been whisked away! I guess I'll have to personally e-mail some of my garden friends to see if they're having newsgroup withdrawal. I wonder why AOL would do this? (and the server that Pam, aka grdngal, has)
madgardener up on the snowy ridge, where we FINALLY got snow (it's all gone Eastwards to North Carolina every time!) back in Faerie Holler, overlooking a beautiful wintery English Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7?, Sunset zone 36

wow, thanks for educating me Warren. to think of the gardeners as a small
fraction of users humbles me (I am most sincere in this statement) and what
on earth will we do if we can't visit each other at rec.gardens?? I've made
life friends here on the newsgroup over these last seven years, and hope to
touch more gardeners out there with my foolish but passionate rambles and
what not postings. I'm not selfish, I just appreciate what we have here. My
alternative is gardenweb who is strictly monitored by Spike and I've been
careful not to overstep my limits with him because I understand he can
banish me from the whole thing to the Disney website. (something that smacks
of freedom of speech to me, although I don't use offensive words most times,
but there comes a limit to the "political correctness" that is tolerable. I
posted one of my rambles on his newgroup forum but before I posted it, I had
to remove my phrase of dawg eating shit from a picket fence because I knew
I'd be slapped for saying the phrase no matter the appropriate description.
I wonder how close sometimes we're getting to the world portrayed in the sci
fi where people were fined for language use (Stallone and Bullock and
Snipes) and other improper offences. (I think of the "President
Swartzenegger library and have to laugh, because who would have thought of
even the possibility of Gov. Swartz. back then? LOL)

But again, thanks for the insightful reasonings. I'll watch closer and
appreciate what I have here more.
madgardener
"Warren" wrote in message
...
Play4abuck wrote:
I would guess AOL did this for at least a couple of reasons.
-Newsgroup activity can use up a lot of bandwidth and AOL is slow
enough the way it is,
some readers download and upload a great deal of data.

So few ISP customers even know what newsgroups are that bandwidth is not
an issue. In the case of AOL, a proprietary interface was used (you
couldn't use a real newsreader), and it was crappy enough for text
messages. I seriously doubt that they had a problem with people
downloading or uploading huge quanities of binaries.


-AOL can not put spam pop-ups in your newsgroup, they want you back
on their
home page, clicking and buying it up, reading their advertisements.

It's been a while since you've been on AOL, hasn't it. Or do you not
have any personal experience, and are just perpetuating misconceptions
held dear by so many others who also really don't have any personal
experience?

Quite simplely the issue is that not enough people used newsgroups on
AOL to make it worth the expense. AOL may be one of the first to
completely dump Usenet because they had the additional costs associated
with their proprietary interface (or a choice of revamping the service
to allow real nntp traffic.)

Other ISP's are finding their costs too high even without an interface
to maintain. The first step, which is already pretty common, is
outsourcing their Usenet servers. Next will come limiting monthly
transfers to contain the costs of providing wholesale accounts to
customers. Eventually Usenet will be dropped completely. For many ISP's,
even if they lost every single customer to whom Usenet service is
important, they'd still come out ahead. And once their compeditors stop
offering unlimited Usenet, the likelyhood of losing any customers goes
down.

The bottom line is if every ISP dropped Usenet service tomorrow, it
might make the headlines at some techie websites, and it might be worth
a column inch or two on an inside page of the local paper's business
section, but it wouldn't even get a passing mention on the nightly news.
We Usenet users are a very small faction in today's gentified Internet
community.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Black and Decker cordless landscaping tools:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html

madgardener wrote:
wow, thanks for educating me Warren. to think of the gardeners as a
small
fraction of users humbles me

Usenet users are who I was referring to as being a small faction.

There are plenty of gardeners, of varying degrees of commitment. Someone
is taking care of all those beds and lawns out there. But Usenet users
are a rare breed.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Black and Decker cordless landscaping tools:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blac...ker/index.html

"Warren" wrote in message
...

It's been a while since you've been on AOL, hasn't it. Or do you not
have any personal experience, and are just perpetuating misconceptions
held dear by so many others who also really don't have any personal
experience?

Quite simplely the issue is that not enough people used newsgroups on
AOL to make it worth the expense. AOL may be one of the first to
completely dump Usenet because they had the additional costs associated
with their proprietary interface (or a choice of revamping the service
to allow real nntp traffic.)

Other ISP's are finding their costs too high even without an interface
to maintain. The first step, which is already pretty common, is
outsourcing their Usenet servers. Next will come limiting monthly
transfers to contain the costs of providing wholesale accounts to
customers. Eventually Usenet will be dropped completely. For many ISP's,
even if they lost every single customer to whom Usenet service is
important, they'd still come out ahead. And once their compeditors stop
offering unlimited Usenet, the likelyhood of losing any customers goes
down.

The bottom line is if every ISP dropped Usenet service tomorrow, it
might make the headlines at some techie websites, and it might be worth
a column inch or two on an inside page of the local paper's business
section, but it wouldn't even get a passing mention on the nightly news.
We Usenet users are a very small faction in today's gentified Internet
community.

--
Warren H.

Several strange reasoning-points seem to have gone into aol's decision:

AOL settled a suit last year brought against them by Harlan Ellison for
fascilitating usenet copyright infringement. It looks like AOL for
liability reasons, real or imagined, wants more of a Big Brother control
of its users. They could not easily control what their users did on
UseNet. For so long as AOL was storing newsgroups in their own system's
memory for AOLosers' access, they may have shared liaibility for
copyright-infringements.

AOL proprietary system was never particularly compatible interfacing with
usenet & their non-standard hook-up always cost them more to maintain.
Their incompatibility did not permit aolosers to use the majority of
third-party newsreader programs separate from or part of browsers (this
was partly the effect of their antique system, partly intentional to keep
AOLosers "coralled" & "stuck" with AOL). To hook up a third-party
newsreader from an AOL connection was unnecessarily complex or required
too much research for novice or would-be users of usenet to easily figure
out.

AOL's usenet binary access was so hamstrung & bug-ridden that it was
estimated the cost to the REST of the web in transmitting AOL binaries was
700 million dollars a year, & the poky system could actually crash FTP
sites. Many sites in consequence either denied access to AOL users, or
allowed only one-way access so that files could be obtained but not
deposited. When AOL finally decided to do something about this, it was
only because of the liability issues over copyrights, not because they
wanted in any way to better serve their own client base.

AOL is just flat-out an inferior service & their disdain for freewheeling
UseNet was always obvious. AOLosers should take this as their cue to sign
up with a local ISP that will provide better support all-round. AOL had
years ago cut back the number of groups they could access & attempted to
start an AOLosers-only alternative to UseNet so they could better control
their user-losers & limit user access to groups that were largely about
easy it is to get rid of AOL.

Because their own platform is second-rate & incompatible, UseNet access
was a major loss-leader for AOL in ways that are not true for other ISPs.
The service gave them no opportunities to increase their own profits
selling their own bulletin-board usenet-like service. AOL encouratges
pay-as-you-go packaged entertainment, & discourages freewheeling
independence. They have attempted to charge their client base for poor
versions of service that a free from any other ISP, but as this didn't pay
off positively, it was always an option that if they experienced a
financial pinch or needed to improve their bottom-line in a hurry, UseNet
would be one of the first cost-cutting measure.

AOL not only filtered & edited UseNet so heavily that continuity was
impossible for some users, but their own alternate to UseNet is even more
heavily censored. AOL's alternate to usenet was extremely adverse to free
speech, thus was populated by weanies. AOLosers (& for a while webTV
webbies, who're dying off now thank gawd) are the ones who turn up in
gardening forums asking, "Can I plant flowers in dirt?" or in book
collecting forums asking "how do I tell if my copy of JAWS is a first
edition ora book club?" -- lowering the intellilgence level of group after
group. AOL cultivates ignorance because only the ignorant would use AOL.
It is the opinion of some that denying the weanier AOLosers access to
UseNet is a good thing, but personally I believe in the full equal rights
of the mentally retarded.

That AOL is consciously adverse to free speech on Usenet was proven in
1995/96 when they interferred with news.groups.reviews due to intelligent
discussions that erupted there about the failings of AOL. AOL gave access
to this intelligent discussion under a new title imposed by themselves
"FLAMES of AOL." It was really very clever. It attracted flamers to the
group who didn't care about anything except flames, & the intelligent
warnings about AOL were soon lost among the greater bulk of trolls &
flamers encouraged by AOL to do this. The group soon ceased to be used for
anyone but trolls. Because AOL encourages ignorance, flaming & trolling is
all right by them, but intelligent discourse does not serve AOL interests.

As the overall worldwide use of the web & all e-services increases, the
percentage of that enormous population who accesses UseNet is a minority
that does not need to be well served by AOL which relies not on continuous
customer service but new novices continuously signing on unaware that
almost any ISP would be an improvement. By the time AOLosers figure out
how to get to UseNet, they have also begun to figure out AOL sucks, so
they're the least important people to cater to inasmuch as most of them
will be dumping AOL anyway.

In the 1980s & 1990s Usenet was frankly a more intelligent user-friendly
place. Many web historians credit 1993's AOL launch with the deterioration
of UseNet's slow deterioriation until, today, the sheer weight of trolls &
binary-group pornography weaken UseNet's overall value, inducing many of
the more sophisticated sorts of users to forge new communities in the
blogosphere instead. This is another reason some people thing cutting out
AOL will improve Usenet to become more of what it once was, but I don't
think AOL's initial destructive impact has been that big a factor in the
last three or four years. But AOL encourages the blogosphere while
discouraging UseNet because it sells packages for blogging & has more
options for AOL controlling dialogues.

The one component of the web that least serves corporate interests is
UseNet. Corporate as well as political interests do have full-time payed
bloggers to promote their agendas (although they cannot stop
counter-blogging, they can at least put up pages that have no unfiltered
responses). But Usenet is 100% worthless for corporate agendizing &
advertising, thus restricting UseNet is something AOL has always
attempted. Their enemy is "community," any community which they cannot
control. Imagine what would happen if AOL spammed UseNet the way they send
junkmail to every resident on earth with a mail box. Every special offer
from AOL if inserted onto UseNet as "news" would be followed by hundreds
of angry flames & helpful ex-AOLosers eager to tell fellow UseNet users
about the oh-so-many better choices. AOL's deserved thrashing on UseNet
(as well as in the blogosphere) has been one of many years duration,
encouraging AOL's longstanding censorship of & eventual ditching of
UseNet.

AOLosers should be able to get access by checking out easynews.com or
usenet.com at least until they work up the gumption to get a QUALITY isp
that doesn't censor & does provide all services. Remember the world wide
slogan, AOL SUCKS:
http://pages.sbcglobal.net/cybersaur/aol_sucks.htm

Why AOL is not a wise choice:
http://geocities.com/tara_d8/aolsux2.html

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"History, I believe, furnishes no example of a priest-ridden
people maintaining a free civil government." -Thomas Jefferson

madgardener wrote:
I myself despise that all those pop up's are everywhere

Although I don't really know what I'm doing half the time on the
computer, my cable connection works great for me. I started out with AOL
and then my grown son had me switch to a local cheaper ISP. He said
worse things about AOL than it sucked. After I got the hang of that,
I went to cable. I don't have any pop ups, and so far, no spam. Not one
bit since AOL.

I remember Marilyn from my AOL days.

I wish you could change your isp someday.

Jean from Ohio too

hmmmmmm interesting option.........any idea's Janet?
maddie
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "madgardener" contains these words:

makes sense to me. That and my server's secretary said that the lovers
of porn were messing it up for those of us who garden. (don't flame me
about the porn comment, what you look at is your business and part of
freedoms taken forgranted, I just don't agree with pushing your tastes
on those who don't want it). The band width thing is exactly what is
all the hubbub. I myself despise that all those pop up's are
everywhere and that they're also applying tracking methods to monitor
me.

Why not use an offline-newsreader? No pop-ups or tracking are possible.

Janet.

MY problem is where I live in Eastern Tennessee isn't offering cable
internet yet. I am tethered to an ISDN line thru BellSouth and my server
provider is now businesses only but still has a few of us die hards who love
his services who are residents. I am one of those die hards. When I can get
cable internet (DSL) then I am outa there............I not only pay
Bellsouth for the ISDN lines each month (it's a given considering it's my
ONLY alternative, and yes I considered satellite service thru Direct t.v.
but no thank you, bad enough when a really powerful storm cell knocks out my
t.v. services including my desperately needed local stations I pay for and
what good is that when there is a nasty tornado or storm approaching? but to
also lose my internet capabilities too? no thank you but I also have my
ISDN service fee's which cost me $49 every month...............huge sigh.

one day I hope to have located either an affordable ISDN service, or DSL
will come because so many people are moving here that actually HAVE
computers! (the population here is astounding. apparently the slogan
"tennessee is the place to be" is catching fire. EVERYONE is relocating
here. Now if only the wages would rise at the jobs around
here...........................and who knows? maybe we'll get that traffic
light in town! LOL yeppers, we still don't have a traffic light in town. I
think it'll come soon enough. one nasty traffic accident by some old person
turning into the local store and someone not paying attention going in the
opposite direction who shouldn't be driving faster than 40 will sadly be the
reason we'll finally get that much needed light.............(we've needed
two of them now for as long as I've been here, which is 13 years now)

back to the subject, I just have to patiently wait for other options for
internet services. despite that I love the quality of service provided by
V.I.C. I'd leave in a heartbeat if I could cut my provider fee's in half and
drop that ISDN line fee with Bellsouth.....................
of course having DSL would be a whole different breed of cat too.......I
better be careful what I wish for unless I know what I'm reaching into,
right?
madgardener trying to recover from spreading herself too thin these last
three weeks
"Jeana" wrote in message
news:dToVd.1360$ju.1327@okepread07...
madgardener wrote:
I myself despise that all those pop up's are everywhere

Although I don't really know what I'm doing half the time on the
computer, my cable connection works great for me. I started out with AOL
and then my grown son had me switch to a local cheaper ISP. He said
worse things about AOL than it sucked. After I got the hang of that,
I went to cable. I don't have any pop ups, and so far, no spam. Not one
bit since AOL.

I remember Marilyn from my AOL days.

I wish you could change your isp someday.

Jean from Ohio too

http://www.forteinc.com/agent/index.php
To get Free Agent, simply download Agent, and try it for free for 30
days. If, after 30 days, you decide not to buy Agent, the program will
automatically revert to Free Agent. If you decide to upgrade later on,
Agent will preserve all your Free Agent data.


http://www.forteinc.com/agent/download.php





On Wed, 2 Mar 2005 16:24:35 -0500, "madgardener"
wrote:

hmmmmmm interesting option.........any idea's Janet?
maddie
"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message
...
The message
from "madgardener" contains these words:

makes sense to me. That and my server's secretary said that the lovers
of porn were messing it up for those of us who garden. (don't flame me
about the porn comment, what you look at is your business and part of
freedoms taken forgranted, I just don't agree with pushing your tastes
on those who don't want it). The band width thing is exactly what is
all the hubbub. I myself despise that all those pop up's are
everywhere and that they're also applying tracking methods to monitor
me.

Why not use an offline-newsreader? No pop-ups or tracking are possible.

Janet.