Take the information for what it is worth and don't worry that a
company sent it out.

1. If you want to prevent grubs, now is the time to appy the products
to do so. It helps with the environment because treating now with the
specific product for grubs is a lot less toxic than treating after they
are already doing damage to the turf and the lawn company has to use a
general pest control that kills a lot more insects including the
beneficial ones.

2. Webworms are all over the south. Rather than let them do any further
damage to very expensive trees in your landscape, get them sprayed.
There are a lot of very environmentally responsible ways to treat the
infestations. Just treat them so you don't lose your investments.

3. Fall is fast approaching. The best time to seed a good local blend
of fescue varieties. If you have shady, thin, bare, or existing fescue
areas then it will be time to seed in September. It's not cheap or easy
work so you should start to prepare the soil for better germination
rates. Yes I should use spellcheck more.

4. A soil test from a local reputable lawn company or extension office
will check for your pH. If the soil pH is too hi or low then the plant
investments in your landscape including your turfgrass will not be able
to absorb the correct nutrients it needs to remain healthy. If you have
had a pH test with bad results then late summer heat will be that much
worse on your plants. Amendments to the soil the correct pH or soil
structure will go a long way from now through winter to prevent more
damage.

We care about everyones environment and want to be a reliable resource
for anyone anywhere. We are a locally owned company and only treat
lawns in the Greater Oklahoma City Metro area but are happy to answer
questions from anywhere. We have been to a lot of conferences around
the country and have made friends with many reputable companies. Maybe
we can help you find what you are looking for. We don't want to spam.
We just want to help make our environment look good with professionals
doing the work correctly.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:46:17 -0700, travelinmatt wrote:

Take the information for what it is worth and don't worry that a company
sent it out.

1. If you want to prevent grubs, now is the time to appy the products to
do so. It helps with the environment because treating now with the
specific product for grubs is a lot less toxic than treating after they
are already doing damage to the turf and the lawn company has to use a
general pest control that kills a lot more insects including the
beneficial ones.


I have to completly disagree with this statement. You CAN NOT prevent
grubs but only kill the ones that may already be there. Laying down a
"Preventive Chemical" is completly irrisponsable to the enviroment and the
insect community at large. This application will harm all of the beetles
that reside in your lawn. Many (more likely most) of the insects on your
property are beneficial and the application will reduce all populations
of beetles good and bad. This inturn will leave a vacuum in the
enviroment and other insect populations will become overbalanced, thus
casuing other issues in the landscape that you may feel inclined to treat.

I am by no means advocating for a strict organic standard but a moderate
IPM approach. A healthy, well established lawn can handle 10 or so grubs
per square foot. That's 10,000 grubs per 1000 square feet! These grubs
will be hunted by many different insects like parasitic wasps or even
other beetles. If the damage becomes too much for you, then you should
consider treatment. Treatment options should be explored and the selection
be made on your personal circumstances. Don't feel comfortable with the
use of posion..? BT (Bacillus thuringiensis), nematodes or even pyrethrum
maybe an option depending on the time of the year for the application. Not
so worried about the chemicals, then start with the weaker pesticides like
synthetic pyrethroids.
soapbox
All in all it might be your lawn, but it's our
community, country, world and it would be nice to ensure that there is
something to hand to our grandchilderen./soapbox


2. Webworms are all over the south. Rather than let them do any further
damage to very expensive trees in your landscape, get them sprayed. There
are a lot of very environmentally responsible ways to treat the
infestations. Just treat them so you don't lose your investments.


Again this is all about tollerance. Most trees that are healthy and well
maintained should be able to withstand a moderate to heavy defoliation for
a few seasons or more. Least we forget that trees have been dealing with
damaging insects for millions of years and they have figured out a few
strategies for survival.

Many creatures feed upon webworms. Birds,parasitic wasps and even mice. If
the damage becomes too much for the homeowner, than an application of BT
(Bacillus thuringiensis) is in order.

3. Fall is fast approaching. The best time to seed a good local blend of
fescue varieties. If you have shady, thin, bare, or existing fescue areas
then it will be time to seed in September. It's not cheap or easy work so
you should start to prepare the soil for better germination rates. Yes I
should use spellcheck more.


Good call on this one.

4. A soil test from a local reputable lawn company or extension office
will check for your pH. If the soil pH is too hi or low then the plant
investments in your landscape including your turfgrass will not be able to
absorb the correct nutrients it needs to remain healthy. If you have had a
pH test with bad results then late summer heat will be that much worse on
your plants. Amendments to the soil the correct pH or soil structure will
go a long way from now through winter to prevent more damage.


Generaly the lawn company will send the samples to the extention office
anyway and the extention office will charge you less for the test. The
test returns should contain the big 3 (N-P-K) levels and the micronutrient
levels and the extention office will generaly give you a recommendation
sheet on what to supplement.


We care about everyones environment and want to be a reliable resource
for anyone anywhere. We are a locally owned company and only treat
lawns in the Greater Oklahoma City Metro area but are happy to answer
questions from anywhere. We have been to a lot of conferences around the
country and have made friends with many reputable companies. Maybe we
can help you find what you are looking for. We don't want to spam. We
just want to help make our environment look good with professionals
doing the work correctly.


--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

Timothy wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:46:17 -0700, travelinmatt wrote:

Take the information for what it is worth and don't worry that a
company sent it out.

1. If you want to prevent grubs, now is the time to appy the products
to do so. It helps with the environment because treating now with the
specific product for grubs is a lot less toxic than treating after they
are already doing damage to the turf and the lawn company has to use a
general pest control that kills a lot more insects including the
beneficial ones.


I have to completly disagree with this statement. You CAN NOT prevent
grubs but only kill the ones that may already be there.

Actually Merit or Mach II only work as a preventitive, not a curative.

--
http://NewsReader.Com/

On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:42:02 +0000, Steveo wrote:

Timothy wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:46:17 -0700, travelinmatt wrote:

Take the information for what it is worth and don't worry that a
company sent it out.

1. If you want to prevent grubs, now is the time to appy the products
to do so. It helps with the environment because treating now with the
specific product for grubs is a lot less toxic than treating after
they are already doing damage to the turf and the lawn company has to
use a general pest control that kills a lot more insects including
the beneficial ones.


I have to completly disagree with this statement. You CAN NOT prevent
grubs but only kill the ones that may already be there.

Actually Merit or Mach II only work as a preventitive, not a curative.

Correction noted. Thank you for exposing my error, I was un-aware of Merit
as a product but I'm familiar with imidacloprid which turns out to be
Merit's main active chemical. While it's true that imidacloprid is a
systemic pesticide and will kill feeding adult beetles, it will kill ALL
sucking/chewing insects.
While many folks would see nothing wrong with knocking down whole
populations of chewing/sucking insects, this is not a responsible
management tactic in my personal opinion. My personal opinion be as it
may, I must warn you and others about the use of imidacloprid. I sat in on
a conversation a little while ago on imidacloprid and it's possible
effects on the enviroment and people. All I can say is ..."Whoa"!

I strongly suggest that you and others read up on imidacloprid. Here's
a few sites worth looking at:
http://www.pesticide.org/factsheets.html
http://www.pan-uk.org/pestnews/Actives/imidaclo.htm

So at the end of the day, I would only suggest that the use of this
chemical if there was a serious infestation that was un-affected by other
treatment options. Of course I'm only speaking to the infestation of turf
areas and not commercial crop areas. Btw, it seems that there is valid
evidence that imidacloprid will transmogrify readily in soil, has a long
half life (six months or more) and it seems that it's has mutagenic
effects on DNA. There is also very strong evidence of resistance build-up
developing in many insects to imidacloprid.


--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com/

Timothy wrote:
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 09:42:02 +0000, Steveo wrote:

Timothy wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:46:17 -0700, travelinmatt wrote:

Take the information for what it is worth and don't worry that a
company sent it out.

1. If you want to prevent grubs, now is the time to appy the
products to do so. It helps with the environment because treating
now with the specific product for grubs is a lot less toxic than
treating after they are already doing damage to the turf and the
lawn company has to use a general pest control that kills a lot more
insects including the beneficial ones.


I have to completly disagree with this statement. You CAN NOT prevent
grubs but only kill the ones that may already be there.

Actually Merit or Mach II only work as a preventitive, not a curative.


Correction noted. Thank you for exposing my error,
-snip-
So at the end of the day, I would only suggest that the use of this
chemical if there was a serious infestation that was un-affected by other
treatment options.

Yea, if it only worked that way. Once again, it only works on very small
grubs so it is -not- a curative. If you wait until you find grub damage,
you CAN NOT use Merit or Mach II for a control product, since the grubs
will have too much body weight for these preventatives to be effective.

I'm not trying to argue with you, Tim, I'm just explaining the control
window for these products.

--
http://NewsReader.Com/

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 22:32:05 +0000, Steveo wrote:
pruned for size...
Correction noted. Thank you for exposing my error,
-snip-
So at the end of the day, I would only suggest that the use of this
chemical if there was a serious infestation that was un-affected by
other treatment options.

Yea, if it only worked that way. Once again, it only works on very small
grubs so it is -not- a curative. If you wait until you find grub damage,
you CAN NOT use Merit or Mach II for a control product, since the grubs
will have too much body weight for these preventatives to be effective.

I'm not trying to argue with you, Tim, I'm just explaining the control
window for these products.

No worries here Steve, no arguements noted. We're on the same page for the
most part. One assumes that the homeowner is applying imidacloprid in
early / mid summer before damage is noticed. At this time the beetles are
making their first emergence and are laying the eggs that will become
grubs. The point earlier is that the mature beetles are also be affected
by the imidacloprid while they feed and lay eggs. I know, I know, big
deal we want them dead also right..? It's the other beetles that worry
me. The ones that are hunting your grubs/bad beetles and are otherwise
doing good work for your lawn area. While the affected beetles may live on
for a time (while the imidacloprid builds up in high enough concentrations
to kil) other creatures are feeding on the affected beetles/insects. There
is evidence that imidacloprid is making it's way into ground feeding
birds, but the death rates ( if any ) is unknown.

Imidacloprid is just synthetic nicotine for the most part and is
consumed while feeding on turf. The issue I have is that yes it will kill
your grubs, but it will also kill any sucking/chewing insect feeding on
your turf for up to 6 months. While many will see this as a bonus, I see
this doing greater damage to benificial populations than other control
options.

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

Timothy wrote:
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 22:32:05 +0000, Steveo wrote:
pruned for size...
Correction noted. Thank you for exposing my error,
-snip-
So at the end of the day, I would only suggest that the use of this
chemical if there was a serious infestation that was un-affected by
other treatment options.

Yea, if it only worked that way. Once again, it only works on very
small grubs so it is -not- a curative. If you wait until you find grub
damage, you CAN NOT use Merit or Mach II for a control product, since
the grubs will have too much body weight for these preventatives to be
effective.

I'm not trying to argue with you, Tim, I'm just explaining the control
window for these products.

No worries here Steve, no arguements noted. We're on the same page for
the most part. One assumes that the homeowner is applying imidacloprid in
early / mid summer before damage is noticed. At this time the beetles are
making their first emergence and are laying the eggs that will become
grubs. The point earlier is that the mature beetles are also be affected
by the imidacloprid while they feed and lay eggs. I know, I know, big
deal we want them dead also right..? It's the other beetles that worry
me. The ones that are hunting your grubs/bad beetles and are otherwise
doing good work for your lawn area. While the affected beetles may live
on for a time (while the imidacloprid builds up in high enough
concentrations to kil) other creatures are feeding on the affected
beetles/insects. There is evidence that imidacloprid is making it's way
into ground feeding birds, but the death rates ( if any ) is unknown.

Imidacloprid is just synthetic nicotine for the most part and is
consumed while feeding on turf. The issue I have is that yes it will kill
your grubs, but it will also kill any sucking/chewing insect feeding on
your turf for up to 6 months. While many will see this as a bonus, I see
this doing greater damage to benificial populations than other control
options.

Gotcha, Tim. The big consideration to not using a very high LD50 # (less
toxic) product like Merit or Mach II is you -will- be restricted to using a
very low LD50 # (mucho toxic) product like Dylox to control grub
infestations. That stuff kills -everything- in the soil.

Looks like a judgment call from here, so I suggest the products that have
no effect on earthworms and such. (merit or mach2)

YMMV

--
http://NewsReader.Com/