With regard to my trip to India, there were two disappointments.

1) I learned that Chandigarh is a several day trip from the primary
orchid growing areas of India (Assam and Sikkim). Maybe, if the
opportunity arises I will return to visit those two states in India.

2) Almost all of my orchids died of neglect while I was gone. Only a
catt survived. Damn, now I am starting over!

Since returning, I changed ISP to resolve some issues with our
connection that primarily plagued my sister. I have only now begun to
view newsgroups using google. And, I have been busy starting a new
business (see the URL in my signatu comments, suggestions, and
reciprocal links are welcome). There is nothing related to orchids on
my site yet, but if anyone needs custom decision support software to
help in learning about orchid culture, I'm just an email away. ;-)
Actually, I have a horticultural application in mind, serving both
vendors and consumers, but it will have to wait until sufficient
funding can be found.

Any interesting developments in the last year?

Cheers,

Ted


R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making

Welcome back Ted, will check out your new site. Hope you can get a
collection going soon.

--
Cheers Wendy

Remove PETERPAN for email reply

Ted wrote:
With regard to my trip to India, there were two disappointments.

1) I learned that Chandigarh is a several day trip from the primary
orchid growing areas of India (Assam and Sikkim). Maybe, if the
opportunity arises I will return to visit those two states in India.

2) Almost all of my orchids died of neglect while I was gone. Only a
catt survived. Damn, now I am starting over!

Since returning, I changed ISP to resolve some issues with our
connection that primarily plagued my sister. I have only now begun to
view newsgroups using google. And, I have been busy starting a new
business (see the URL in my signatu comments, suggestions, and
reciprocal links are welcome). There is nothing related to orchids on
my site yet, but if anyone needs custom decision support software to
help in learning about orchid culture, I'm just an email away. ;-)
Actually, I have a horticultural application in mind, serving both
vendors and consumers, but it will have to wait until sufficient
funding can be found.

Any interesting developments in the last year?

Cheers,

Ted


R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making

Hi Wendy.

Thanks. I have the one catt that survived, and have now bought two
more catts, a paph and a phrag.

Next month, and the big show in Guelph, I hope to pick up some phals
and maybe a vanilla (mostly to show my neices and nephews where vanilla
comes from). I'm not sure I'll live long enough to see an orchid the
size of vanilla bloom (I understand they have to get huge before
they'll bloom), but according to a cheesy site the Ontario ministry of
health has (that computes life expectancy based on simple genetic
patterns and current state of health), I ought to live to at least 90,
so that's another 40 years. But with my diabetes, it often feels like
I won't see next month. :-(

Actually, I have conceived a design for a web application that may
prove useful to both growers and consumers. Wat I was thinking is that
the application would provide two different ways to identify, as well
as one can, plants. One method would be based on illustrated keys
where available, and the other would be based on numerical taxonomic
methods. This latter method would require a considerable database of
known specimens to provide a basis for, e.g., discriminant functions
analysis, the output of which can be used to identify unknown specimens
that are clearly related to specimens already in the database. In
response to a user entering a detailed description of the plant he
wants idenitified, he would get a web page that identifies the species,
hybrids or cultivars that are most similar to the unknown specimen, or
a message that the unknown specimen isn't like anything presently in
the database. The result page would also have a link to culture sheets
as well as a description of where the plant is normally found, a basic
description of its ecology, and links to vendors who normally carry it
or who currently have it in stock. I even thougt it could provide an
interface where growers can enter growth and environmental data
(temperature, humidity, &c.), so that empirical data can be available
for viewing so the curious can explore the range of environmental
conditions and cultural treatments in which a given plant has been
grown and how it has responded to these. This data could be
sufficiently detailed to allow assessment of the natural variability in
all plants and provide a basis for various kinds of scientific
research. I would have, as a result of my own background as a research
scientist, web pages in the application designed to support fellow
scientists who are interested in doing basic taxonomic and ecological
research using the associated database.

I invite comment both from orchid vendors and orchid lovers, both
newbies and old hands, on this idea. Are there any other features,
beyond what I described, you'd like to see to make it really, really
useful to you personally or professionally? Of course, I recognise
that this idea applies generally in horticulture, but that is another
issue. Is this a kind of resource you'd be willing to pay for (either
subscription fees for consumers, or advertising for vendours)? At
present, I do not have the resources to develop this without making it
available as a commercial venture.

Cheers,

Ted


R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making

On 19 Aug 2005 20:53:08 -0700, "Ted"
wrote:

Actually, I have conceived a design for a web application that may
prove useful to both growers and consumers. Wat I was thinking is that
the application would provide two different ways to identify, as well
as one can, plants.
Cheers,

Ted

This was posted on the Orchid Digest. It should carry the news
source from a London paper.


Quote from OD --
From a news story : "LONDON, England...

A group of London-based scientists hope computer software they
are creating will help uncover previously unknown plant ...
species.

Professor Norman MacLeod, ... Natural History Museum, is among
those creating a database of every known species, covering all
known ... plant life on Earth.

The system, called Digital Automated Identification System
(Daisy), will eventually give anyone in the world the ability to
identify species almost instantly...

"Only a handful of experts are currently able to identify species
in any given group of organisms accurately, and even these
experts disagree with each other over aspects of these
identifications and can make mistakes," he said.
....
"This technology will not replace basic human expertise, but it
will give access to that expertise to people in remote locations,
where the identifications are often needed most."
.....
"If we can identify species more quickly and accurately then we
can use this information to focus more on addressing the larger
issues of evolution and biodiversity."

Previously, if, for example, a botanist discovered what was
believed to be a new species of orchid, they would need to take
the specimen to an expert, which could often mean transporting it
to the other side of the world.

By using Daisy, the botanist would be able to confirm the type of
species with the click of a mouse.

The software program works by combining artificial intelligence
and computer vision technologies, which will load computers with
virtual collections of identified specimens.
....
a user could simply photograph a specimen with a mobile phone
camera out in the field, upload it to a computer which has the
Daisy software on it, and the identification could be made in
seconds.
....
MacLeod presented his vision for the automated identification of
biological groups in a conference at the Natural History Museum
Friday [19 August 2005].

source and complete news item :

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/08/19/s...ion=cnn_latest

End Quote

Great ideas often have many working on them at once. Good Luck.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

Susan Erickson wrote:

This was posted on the Orchid Digest. It should carry the news
source from a London paper.


Quote from OD --
From a news story : "LONDON, England...

A group of London-based scientists hope computer software they
are creating will help uncover previously unknown plant ...
species.

[snip]

The software program works by combining artificial intelligence
and computer vision technologies, which will load computers with
virtual collections of identified specimens.
...
Hi Sue,

Thanks. This was interesting. I have visited cnn.com where it was
originally published, and will print it out later. I really miss
working in a university context where I'd have the freedom and
resources to pursue such an interesting project!

Combining AI with computer vision? Talk about overkill! And this is
overkill that will take years to implement and probably decades before
it can be relied on! And I'd expect that it will, as conceived, be
outrageously expensive. It is a great research project and I'd love to
have the opportunity to work on it, but to be honest, if the purpose is
to identify plants, animals, fungae or any other taxon, one needs only
some basic software technologies that have existed for well over a
decade, and a few that are even older. What I have conceived could, if
I had funding, be implemented in less than a year, with another couple
years to build up the database. And at that point, it would be as
reliable as any taxonomist (since it would be doing automatically what
taxonomists, or at least numerical taxonomists, normally do), and more
useful than most since it would provide useful results for any kind of
organism while taxonomists are normally specialized on a small group of
taxa.

And I could make it more useful to research scientists eventually by
adding support for DNA finger printing of specimens and code to analyse
DNA sequence data; something that may prove useful in assessing
relationships among horticultural treasures. Imagine the professional
potential fr breeders and other vendors if they can have their plants
finger printed. If enough of them do so, relationships among breeding
lines, or plants of unknown provenance, could be assessed.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Ted



R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making

On 19 Aug 2005 20:53:08 -0700, "Ted" wrote:

Hi Wendy.

Thanks. I have the one catt that survived, and have now bought two
more catts, a paph and a phrag.

Next month, and the big show in Guelph, I hope to pick up some phals
and maybe a vanilla (mostly to show my neices and nephews where vanilla
comes from).
snip

Big show in Guelph? Do you happen to have any details, and any dates,
(a website perhaps) any idea how big "big" is? g

I mean I don't really need to buy another orchid. I don't have the
room for one, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't enjoy spending
part of an afternoon looking at other people's pretty flowers.
--Vic

da wrote:
On 19 Aug 2005 20:53:08 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


Hi Wendy.

Thanks. I have the one catt that survived, and have now bought two
more catts, a paph and a phrag.

Next month, and the big show in Guelph, I hope to pick up some phals
and maybe a vanilla (mostly to show my neices and nephews where vanilla
comes from).

snip

Big show in Guelph? Do you happen to have any details, and any dates,
(a website perhaps) any idea how big "big" is? g

I mean I don't really need to buy another orchid. I don't have the
room for one, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't enjoy spending
part of an afternoon looking at other people's pretty flowers.
--Vic
Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

The Central Ontario Orchid Society is hosting it's 20th annual
Orchid Show and Sale, Saturday September 24th 11am to 5pm, and Sunday
September 25th 9am to 5pm. Admission $6, children under 12 free. The
show will be held at the Cambridge Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Rd
Cambridge (exit Hwy 401 at Townline Road, go north to the second left).
For more information visit
http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/coos.html

Maybe you'll have more luck getting onto the website than I did!

--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:27:10 +0200, Reka
wrote:


Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

The Central Ontario Orchid Society is hosting it's 20th annual
Orchid Show and Sale, Saturday September 24th 11am to 5pm, and Sunday
September 25th 9am to 5pm. Admission $6, children under 12 free. The
show will be held at the Cambridge Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Rd
Cambridge (exit Hwy 401 at Townline Road, go north to the second left).
For more information visit
http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/coos.html

Maybe you'll have more luck getting onto the website than I did!

--
Reka


Thanks Reka.

Although I hate to point out that Guelph is not Cambridge, thank you
very much. g

I guess this is the same show I attended last year. So that's a "big"
show? Somehow I would have thought it was a small, local show --
basically one medium sized room (and I'm not talking convention
hall-sized rooms) with displays and one with plants for sale. While
I've never been to any other orchid show, somehow it just didn't seem
that big to me.
--Vic

da wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:27:10 +0200, Reka
wrote:


Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

[snip]
Although I hate to point out that Guelph is not Cambridge, thank you
very much. g

OK, I stand corrected. I thought COOS had its show at the University of
Guelph. That is where I attended one a few years ago.

I take it Cambridge is a wee village just outside Guelph? :-)

I guess this is the same show I attended last year. So that's a "big"
show? Somehow I would have thought it was a small, local show --
basically one medium sized room (and I'm not talking convention
hall-sized rooms) with displays and one with plants for sale. While
I've never been to any other orchid show, somehow it just didn't seem
that big to me.
I'd attended several in southern Ontario, and the only one I've
attended that was larger was the one a while ago put on by SOOS jointly
with another orchid society, whose name I've forgotten. maybe I need
to get out more. ;-)

Cheers,

Ted

On 22 Aug 2005 04:29:31 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:27:10 +0200, Reka
wrote:


Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

[snip]
Although I hate to point out that Guelph is not Cambridge, thank you
very much. g

OK, I stand corrected. I thought COOS had its show at the University of
Guelph. That is where I attended one a few years ago.

I take it Cambridge is a wee village just outside Guelph? :-)

Guelph is a sad cousin to the much grander g Cambridge (population
106,000 vs. over 120,000). Cambridge is part of Waterloo Country,
Guelph is part of Wellington County.

Cambridge (before Free Trade and the American take-over) was once a
leading industrial base specializing in textiles and manufacturing. It
took a major hit when all the jobs were exported south of the border,
but things have bounced back pretty well.

The city still has three distinct downtowns since the city was an
amalgamation of the City of Galt, the Town of Preston and the Village
of Hespeler (and a few other surrounding communities such as Blair and
Beaverdale).

Guelph made its name as the home of Moo-U (The University became a
leading agricultural and agrarian learning institution and the best
vet school around.) Oh, and everybody knows Guelph has the worst water
in 100 square miles. g

I'm sure somebody from Guelph could find something nice to say about
the place, but the trick is finding anybody who is willing to admit to
being from Guelph. g

I guess this is the same show I attended last year. So that's a "big"
show? Somehow I would have thought it was a small, local show --
basically one medium sized room (and I'm not talking convention
hall-sized rooms) with displays and one with plants for sale. While
I've never been to any other orchid show, somehow it just didn't seem
that big to me.
I'd attended several in southern Ontario, and the only one I've
attended that was larger was the one a while ago put on by SOOS jointly
with another orchid society, whose name I've forgotten. maybe I need
to get out more. ;-)

Cheers,

Ted

I doubt that's the case Ted. As I said I've been to one show, and that
was the Cambridge show. I had nothing to use as a yardstick, so I had
to make blind observations. I'm just so used to the big, huge (read
full convention centre) trade show environment, I just automatically
assume that anything held in Cambridge, Guelph, Kitchener, Waterloo,
etc. is rinky dink and small town. g

As I've posted here before, I wasn't left with an overwhelming
positive impression from the show. If I hadn't already purchased my
orchid I don't know that I would have bought one there. I know I
certainly didn't walk away with a companion for the plant I had at
home (even though I really wanted another one and was tempted by a
few).

Actually I doubt I would have even gone to the show in the first place
if I didn't already own my Home Depot special. The advertising and
marketing was pretty much non-existent, and there were certainly
nothing done to draw in complete newbies or to open up the hobby to
people who had never thought about orchids. I just knew that I needed
some fertilizer and some advice, so I figured I'd take my chances and
attend. I got lots of brush-offs ("I don't raise phals," said with
very snooty tones of voice) and tons of contradictory advice. Even
buying the fertilizer was a complete leap of faith because every
vendor told me a completely different story.
--Vic

da wrote:
On 22 Aug 2005 04:29:31 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:27:10 +0200, Reka
wrote:


Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

[snip]
Although I hate to point out that Guelph is not Cambridge, thank you
very much. g

OK, I stand corrected. I thought COOS had its show at the University of
Guelph. That is where I attended one a few years ago.

I take it Cambridge is a wee village just outside Guelph? :-)

Guelph is a sad cousin to the much grander g Cambridge (population
106,000 vs. over 120,000). Cambridge is part of Waterloo Country,
Guelph is part of Wellington County.

Ah, so they're both wee villages, compared to Toronto which has a
population of how many gazillion people, and only one, me, who would
admit having been born and raised there. I am, I admit, living in an
even smaller village called Orillia, population about 30,000. ;-)

Cambridge (before Free Trade and the American take-over) was once a
leading industrial base specializing in textiles and manufacturing. It
took a major hit when all the jobs were exported south of the border,
but things have bounced back pretty well.

The city still has three distinct downtowns since the city was an
amalgamation of the City of Galt, the Town of Preston and the Village
of Hespeler (and a few other surrounding communities such as Blair and
Beaverdale).

I didn't know that. Thanks.

Guelph made its name as the home of Moo-U (The University became a
leading agricultural and agrarian learning institution and the best
vet school around.) Oh, and everybody knows Guelph has the worst water
in 100 square miles. g

Actually, the University of Guelph is a tempting reason for a guy like
me to go there. They have the best equipped library in all of Canada,
and that is in large measure due to Agriculture Canada doing sending to
them all, or almost all, their research dollars earmarked for research
to be done in a university. It is an outstanding institution. It is
the place to go if you want to study agricultural sciences, without
exception.

But the University of Waterloo has them beat for IT, yet another fine,
outstanding institution!

I am not surprised at what you say about the water, but given that
Cambridge and Waterloo are so close, is their's much better?

I'd attended several in southern Ontario, and the only one I've
attended that was larger was the one a while ago put on by SOOS jointly
with another orchid society, whose name I've forgotten. maybe I need
to get out more. ;-)

Cheers,

Ted

I doubt that's the case Ted. As I said I've been to one show, and that
was the Cambridge show. I had nothing to use as a yardstick, so I had
to make blind observations. I'm just so used to the big, huge (read
full convention centre) trade show environment, I just automatically
assume that anything held in Cambridge, Guelph, Kitchener, Waterloo,
etc. is rinky dink and small town. g

As I've posted here before, I wasn't left with an overwhelming
positive impression from the show. If I hadn't already purchased my
orchid I don't know that I would have bought one there. I know I
certainly didn't walk away with a companion for the plant I had at
home (even though I really wanted another one and was tempted by a
few).

Actually I doubt I would have even gone to the show in the first place
if I didn't already own my Home Depot special. The advertising and
marketing was pretty much non-existent, and there were certainly
nothing done to draw in complete newbies or to open up the hobby to
people who had never thought about orchids. I just knew that I needed
some fertilizer and some advice, so I figured I'd take my chances and
attend. I got lots of brush-offs ("I don't raise phals," said with
very snooty tones of voice) and tons of contradictory advice. Even
buying the fertilizer was a complete leap of faith because every
vendor told me a completely different story.
--Vic
This surprises me. The folk I have met have at these shows have all
been very nice and helpful. I don't think I have met a barbarian who
would dismiss a query with a snooty tone of voice. When I asked a
question of someone who didn't grow the orchid in question, the
response would be a polite "I don't know, but that guy over there is
one of the best here for that particular orchid." There is only one
who comes to mind as being a high risk vendor, but that is because I
bought a plant from him and it died in a flash because it had no roots.
It looked like it hadn't been repotted in many years; the medium was
so degraded you couldn't tell what it was originally. And I noticed
that most of the southern Ontario vendors attend almost all of the
shows held in southern Ontario.

And the plants I have seen displayed by vendors have been spectacular,
at least those of blooming size. There are several that sell very good
plants, though, but they're not so spectacular since they're no-where
near blooming size yet.

In my experience, when you get contradictory advice, it is because
people are growing in different situations and what works in one place
doesn't work so well in another. The trick is to consider it all, and
then pick a strategy that may work well for you and see what happens.
If you have been thorough in picking the brains of these guys, you'll
khave a good idea regarding what to expect and how to improve the
results you're seeing. If I were to maintain phalaenopsis in both my
bedroom and my office, I would have to treat, and locate, them somewhat
differently because of major differences in the amount of light
available, but I CAN grow them in both locations. If I were to
describe what I'd do in both locations, it would appear that I am
contradicting myself, at least until the differences between the two
environments are understood.

As for your fertilizer, once you understand plant nutrition, and issues
surrounding macronutrients and micronutrients, understanding the
rationale for different fertilizer compositions because easier. What
may help is if you visit your nearest library and ask for help finding
a book dealing with plant growth and development as affected by
nutrition. And, of course, there is a wealth of related information on
the web. It is hard to know what to do with the advice some of the
growers give without first doing that background research. And this
forum is a priceless resource for making sense of all this!

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Ted

R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making
I hope this helps.

Guelph is a sad cousin to the much grander g Cambridge (population
106,000 vs. over 120,000). Cambridge is part of Waterloo Country,
Guelph is part of Wellington County.

Cambridge (before Free Trade and the American take-over) was once a
leading industrial base specializing in textiles and manufacturing. It
took a major hit when all the jobs were exported south of the border,
but things have bounced back pretty well.

The city still has three distinct downtowns since the city was an
amalgamation of the City of Galt, the Town of Preston and the Village
of Hespeler (and a few other surrounding communities such as Blair and
Beaverdale).

Guelph made its name as the home of Moo-U (The University became a
leading agricultural and agrarian learning institution and the best
vet school around.) Oh, and everybody knows Guelph has the worst water
in 100 square miles. g

I'm sure somebody from Guelph could find something nice to say about
the place, but the trick is finding anybody who is willing to admit to
being from Guelph. g


I'm not from Guelph, but I think the river/stream/creek that runs
through UW campus is quite nice. We'd call that a creek, btw. The
roads are pretty good, too (compared to our crappy Michigan roads).

There, that is two nice things about Guelph. There must be at least two
more...



--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 13:43:47 -0400, Rob
wrote:


I'm not from Guelph, but I think the river/stream/creek that runs
through UW campus is quite nice. We'd call that a creek, btw. The
roads are pretty good, too (compared to our crappy Michigan roads).

There, that is two nice things about Guelph. There must be at least two
more...

Sorry Rob, but UW is in Waterloo, not Guelph. (That's why it's
called University of Waterloo, not University of Guelph. g) There
may be a cute stream running through U of G, but that's not for me to
say.

As for the roads, they tend to be used by Guelph drivers, who are
their own kind of horror. g
--Vic

On 22 Aug 2005 10:25:34 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


wrote:
On 22 Aug 2005 04:29:31 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:27:10 +0200, Reka
wrote:


Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

[snip]
Although I hate to point out that Guelph is not Cambridge, thank you
very much. g

OK, I stand corrected. I thought COOS had its show at the University of
Guelph. That is where I attended one a few years ago.

I take it Cambridge is a wee village just outside Guelph? :-)

Guelph is a sad cousin to the much grander g Cambridge (population
106,000 vs. over 120,000). Cambridge is part of Waterloo Country,
Guelph is part of Wellington County.

Ah, so they're both wee villages, compared to Toronto which has a
population of how many gazillion people, and only one, me, who would
admit having been born and raised there. I am, I admit, living in an
even smaller village called Orillia, population about 30,000. ;-)

Orillia may be small but it the spot to head once you've come in from
the water and you want to restock the galley in the boat. The town
definitely has its own charms, and besides Rama is probably the best
Casino in the province. That's got to count for something, right? g

You really are the only person who admits to being born and raised in
the big smoke. All the other "natives" refuse to call Toronto home,
and instead insist they're from Etobicoke or North York or Downsview
or Scarborough. I mean seriously, everything from Mississauga to
Pickering is essentially Toronto to anybody who isn't from Toronto.
g


Cambridge (before Free Trade and the American take-over) was once a
leading industrial base specializing in textiles and manufacturing. It
took a major hit when all the jobs were exported south of the border,
but things have bounced back pretty well.

The city still has three distinct downtowns since the city was an
amalgamation of the City of Galt, the Town of Preston and the Village
of Hespeler (and a few other surrounding communities such as Blair and
Beaverdale).

I didn't know that. Thanks.

Guelph made its name as the home of Moo-U (The University became a
leading agricultural and agrarian learning institution and the best
vet school around.) Oh, and everybody knows Guelph has the worst water
in 100 square miles. g

Actually, the University of Guelph is a tempting reason for a guy like
me to go there. They have the best equipped library in all of Canada,
and that is in large measure due to Agriculture Canada doing sending to
them all, or almost all, their research dollars earmarked for research
to be done in a university. It is an outstanding institution. It is
the place to go if you want to study agricultural sciences, without
exception.

But the University of Waterloo has them beat for IT, yet another fine,
outstanding institution!

Both are good universities in their own areas of expertise. It's nice
to have so much depth in what is essentially a small area, especially
when you add WLU into the mix.

I am not surprised at what you say about the water, but given that
Cambridge and Waterloo are so close, is their's much better?

I'm not sure where Guelph pulls its water from, but it's foul nasty
stuff. A friend of mine has been house sitting in Guelph, and she has
been taking Toronto tap water with her because the Guelph stuff is so
bad.

Cambridge used to pull its water from aquifers and springs. Sometime
over the past few years (since the city got pulled further into
regional politics) the decision was made to take water out of the
Grand River and treat the hell out of it with massive doses of
chlorine and whatever other chemicals that supposedly make it safe for
human consumption. Water in Kitchener and Waterloo really depends on
what particular part of the city you happen to be in. It could range
from drinkable to near-Guelph in taste.

I'd attended several in southern Ontario, and the only one I've
attended that was larger was the one a while ago put on by SOOS jointly
with another orchid society, whose name I've forgotten. maybe I need
to get out more. ;-)

Cheers,

Ted

I doubt that's the case Ted. As I said I've been to one show, and that
was the Cambridge show. I had nothing to use as a yardstick, so I had
to make blind observations. I'm just so used to the big, huge (read
full convention centre) trade show environment, I just automatically
assume that anything held in Cambridge, Guelph, Kitchener, Waterloo,
etc. is rinky dink and small town. g

As I've posted here before, I wasn't left with an overwhelming
positive impression from the show. If I hadn't already purchased my
orchid I don't know that I would have bought one there. I know I
certainly didn't walk away with a companion for the plant I had at
home (even though I really wanted another one and was tempted by a
few).

Actually I doubt I would have even gone to the show in the first place
if I didn't already own my Home Depot special. The advertising and
marketing was pretty much non-existent, and there were certainly
nothing done to draw in complete newbies or to open up the hobby to
people who had never thought about orchids. I just knew that I needed
some fertilizer and some advice, so I figured I'd take my chances and
attend. I got lots of brush-offs ("I don't raise phals," said with
very snooty tones of voice) and tons of contradictory advice. Even
buying the fertilizer was a complete leap of faith because every
vendor told me a completely different story.
--Vic
This surprises me. The folk I have met have at these shows have all
been very nice and helpful. I don't think I have met a barbarian who
would dismiss a query with a snooty tone of voice. When I asked a
question of someone who didn't grow the orchid in question, the
response would be a polite "I don't know, but that guy over there is
one of the best here for that particular orchid." There is only one
who comes to mind as being a high risk vendor, but that is because I
bought a plant from him and it died in a flash because it had no roots.
It looked like it hadn't been repotted in many years; the medium was
so degraded you couldn't tell what it was originally. And I noticed
that most of the southern Ontario vendors attend almost all of the
shows held in southern Ontario.

The snooty responses were mainly from people with displays for
judging. After the "not phals" bit, they'd wave a hand and say those
are my "phrags/catts/whatever" over there." Now maybe that's because
the people didn't know each other (now I'm working on the assumption
that they travelled from the general Southern Ontario area, but I had
no way of knowing that then). Still, despite a good number of phals in
the displays, I never found anybody who said they grew them.

And the plants I have seen displayed by vendors have been spectacular,
at least those of blooming size. There are several that sell very good
plants, though, but they're not so spectacular since they're no-where
near blooming size yet.

I was pretty upfront with all the vendors I spoke with. I described my
growing conditions, and said I was new to orchids. Pretty much all of
them told me, "well I won't sell you a plant because it won't grow
there." Now that's fine up to a point. You don't want to pass a hard
to grow plant off on a newbie, but I was hoping somebody would say,
"well how about one of these xyzs" They're good for beginners. About
the only one who wanted to sell me a plant was really, really pushy,
so much so that I really got a bad feeling about the seller.

In my experience, when you get contradictory advice, it is because
people are growing in different situations and what works in one place
doesn't work so well in another. The trick is to consider it all, and
then pick a strategy that may work well for you and see what happens.
If you have been thorough in picking the brains of these guys, you'll
khave a good idea regarding what to expect and how to improve the
results you're seeing. If I were to maintain phalaenopsis in both my
bedroom and my office, I would have to treat, and locate, them somewhat
differently because of major differences in the amount of light
available, but I CAN grow them in both locations. If I were to
describe what I'd do in both locations, it would appear that I am
contradicting myself, at least until the differences between the two
environments are understood.

I realize that every plant is unique and every environment presents
its own challenges. I was just hoping to get a few, general
rules-of-thumb -- a basic consensus or beginner's guidelines -- and I
didn't get that. In the end, I followed the instructions that the
sales woman at Home Depot gave me, and I tempered that with my own
judgement, and a bit of input from r.g.o.

As for your fertilizer, once you understand plant nutrition, and issues
surrounding macronutrients and micronutrients, understanding the
rationale for different fertilizer compositions because easier. What
may help is if you visit your nearest library and ask for help finding
a book dealing with plant growth and development as affected by
nutrition. And, of course, there is a wealth of related information on
the web. It is hard to know what to do with the advice some of the
growers give without first doing that background research. And this
forum is a priceless resource for making sense of all this!

I really don't want to have to study enough to write a thesis on
fertilizer. Honestly the whole subject matter just gets my head
spinning. g At the time I just wanted something that was going to
get me started. I think I had every number combination and type
(blooming, general growing, dormant, song and dance, you name it) of
fertilizer suggested to me under the sun. In the end I picked one that
was supposed to be geared toward what I wanted to plant to do. After
reading the newsgroup, I've come to the conclusion that I bought the
"wrong" one, but I don't really care. The plant is healthy and growing
and blooming, and that's all I was after, and I'm not about to change
what works.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

Ted

Of course every little bit of advice helps. So just in case I decide
to go this year, what are you doing there? Displaying? Selling?
Judging?

R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making
I hope this helps.

da wrote:
On 22 Aug 2005 10:25:34 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


wrote:
On 22 Aug 2005 04:29:31 -0700, "Ted" wrote:


wrote:
On Mon, 22 Aug 2005 08:27:10 +0200, Reka
wrote:


Central Ontario Orchid Society Show and Sale

Date: September 24th, 2005 at 11 am, through the 25th

Location: Hespeler Arena, 640 Ellis Road, Cambridge, ON

[snip]
Although I hate to point out that Guelph is not Cambridge, thank you
very much. g

OK, I stand corrected. I thought COOS had its show at the University of
Guelph. That is where I attended one a few years ago.

I take it Cambridge is a wee village just outside Guelph? :-)

Guelph is a sad cousin to the much grander g Cambridge (population
106,000 vs. over 120,000). Cambridge is part of Waterloo Country,
Guelph is part of Wellington County.

Ah, so they're both wee villages, compared to Toronto which has a
population of how many gazillion people, and only one, me, who would
admit having been born and raised there. I am, I admit, living in an
even smaller village called Orillia, population about 30,000. ;-)

Orillia may be small but it the spot to head once you've come in from
the water and you want to restock the galley in the boat. The town
definitely has its own charms, and besides Rama is probably the best
Casino in the province. That's got to count for something, right? g

You really are the only person who admits to being born and raised in
the big smoke. All the other "natives" refuse to call Toronto home,
and instead insist they're from Etobicoke or North York or Downsview
or Scarborough. I mean seriously, everything from Mississauga to
Pickering is essentially Toronto to anybody who isn't from Toronto.
g

You have that right. I am not fond of city life. For me, the smaller
the "urban centre" the better. There is only one thing in Toronto that
I miss, and that is the University of Toronto, and especially its
libraries and bookstore. The wealth of IT providers is useful too, but
since I don't routinely buy a new computer, and there are decent
suppliers up here, that isn't enough of an issue to worry about. After
all, Toronto is only down the 400.


Both are good universities in their own areas of expertise. It's nice
to have so much depth in what is essentially a small area, especially
when you add WLU into the mix.

What is WLU's greatest strength?


I am not surprised at what you say about the water, but given that
Cambridge and Waterloo are so close, is their's much better?

I'm not sure where Guelph pulls its water from, but it's foul nasty
stuff. A friend of mine has been house sitting in Guelph, and she has
been taking Toronto tap water with her because the Guelph stuff is so
bad.


;-) It must be bad if she prefers Toronto water.

Cambridge used to pull its water from aquifers and springs. Sometime
over the past few years (since the city got pulled further into
regional politics) the decision was made to take water out of the
Grand River and treat the hell out of it with massive doses of
chlorine and whatever other chemicals that supposedly make it safe for
human consumption. Water in Kitchener and Waterloo really depends on
what particular part of the city you happen to be in. It could range
from drinkable to near-Guelph in taste.

I guess there is a good future for water treatment and supply
companies, like Water Depot, who sell bottled spring water and various
equipment and supplies for treating municipal and well water. There
are two that I am aware of n Orillia and they seem to be doing quite
well despite the small population..


The snooty responses were mainly from people with displays for
judging. After the "not phals" bit, they'd wave a hand and say those
are my "phrags/catts/whatever" over there." Now maybe that's because
the people didn't know each other (now I'm working on the assumption
that they travelled from the general Southern Ontario area, but I had
no way of knowing that then). Still, despite a good number of phals in
the displays, I never found anybody who said they grew them.

Ah, OK. I rarely met private growers/collectors who put up displays.
Rather, I talked with vendors, including those vendors who put up
displays. When they weren't overwhelmed by potential customers, they
proved to be quite chatty.

And the plants I have seen displayed by vendors have been spectacular,
at least those of blooming size. There are several that sell very good
plants, though, but they're not so spectacular since they're no-where
near blooming size yet.

I was pretty upfront with all the vendors I spoke with. I described my
growing conditions, and said I was new to orchids. Pretty much all of
them told me, "well I won't sell you a plant because it won't grow
there." Now that's fine up to a point. You don't want to pass a hard
to grow plant off on a newbie, but I was hoping somebody would say,
"well how about one of these xyzs" They're good for beginners. About
the only one who wanted to sell me a plant was really, really pushy,
so much so that I really got a bad feeling about the seller.

Hmmmm, you seem to have been rather unlucky that time around. I do
know one vendor who only sells to people with plenty of experience, but
that is because he specializes in genera that are very hard to grow,
even for professionals. But he has produced countless awarded specimen
plants.

Now, if you're interested, SOOS has classes specifically for those who
have little or no experience growing orchids. I would suppose that
most orchid societies have these, but I haven't seen much about this on
other sites (possibly because I wasn't looking for it).

You probably already know this, from this group, but he phals, catts
and dends, and possibly paphs and phrags are probably among the easiest
to grow.

You could also use price as a guide. If you can get a near blooming
size plant for $10, you're not going to be too upset if t dies, so it
is suitable material for experimenting. This is like what I told my
neices who wanted to try to grow orchids. I told that to get a couple
of the $2 african violets, and if they could keep them alive for
twoyears, I'd consider getting them an orchid. Alas, they have yet to
succeed in keeping an african violet alive for more than six months. I
think, at their age, it is hard for them to maintain the discipline of
caring for a plant. They quickly forget them in the hustle and burtle
of school work, girlgriends, boyfriends, &c. Maybe when they grow up a
little.


As for your fertilizer, once you understand plant nutrition, and issues
surrounding macronutrients and micronutrients, understanding the
rationale for different fertilizer compositions because easier. What
may help is if you visit your nearest library and ask for help finding
a book dealing with plant growth and development as affected by
nutrition. And, of course, there is a wealth of related information on
the web. It is hard to know what to do with the advice some of the
growers give without first doing that background research. And this
forum is a priceless resource for making sense of all this!

I really don't want to have to study enough to write a thesis on
fertilizer. Honestly the whole subject matter just gets my head
spinning. g At the time I just wanted something that was going to

Writing a thesis is serious over kill, for what you want. All you want
in a book is something basic, say written for a first or second year
undergraduate course. A little light reading that can be completed in
a few days, or weeks; something that will give you the basics of plant
nutrition.

Of course every little bit of advice helps. So just in case I decide
to go this year, what are you doing there? Displaying? Selling?
Judging?

None of the above! I will be going to meet up with old friends and to
start to rebuild my collection. Most of the time, when I get a plant,
it is to build my collection, and so will never be sold. It might, if
I make a mistake, end up in the compost, but that is not by design. I
hope to begin again on finding breeding stock for phals, focussing on
species, perhaps linebred, and then breeding for a combination of
colour, scent and fast growth. I'd expect that even if I found all the
breeding stock I want within the next year, it would be close to a
decade before I'd have something I'd consider selling.

I don't want to get into judging just yet; not until I can start to
relax, and that won't be until after my new business is well
established.

Cheers,

Ted

R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making
I hope this helps.