OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I, too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO

Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO

Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO

then dammit i am calling for a revolution

we need more uptightness in here


SIGH and we call ourselves an orchid group!!!

where is all the condensation around here, and im not talkin about the
humidity

GRIN

Jim

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening to
me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO

I should add that USUALLY I do get a response And I can't comment on
the relative "uptightness" since I haven't posted on the AOS forums...
Maybe I'll try it.

"Jim S" wrote in message
om...
then dammit i am calling for a revolution

we need more uptightness in here


SIGH and we call ourselves an orchid group!!!

where is all the condensation around here, and im not talkin about the
humidity

GRIN

Jim

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS
Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment. I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the
clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post
went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening
to
me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO

can't be uptight, I read to unwind & enjoy everyone's messages here. I agree
with the comments about off track comments. we can have our fun, but still
stay on topic. To burn someone with a message is uncalled for.

Diane

"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I should add that USUALLY I do get a response And I can't comment
on
the relative "uptightness" since I haven't posted on the AOS forums...
Maybe I'll try it.

"Jim S" wrote in message
om...
then dammit i am calling for a revolution

we need more uptightness in here


SIGH and we call ourselves an orchid group!!!

where is all the condensation around here, and im not talkin about the
humidity

GRIN

Jim

"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
rthlink.net...
Ray & Jerry,

I read your messages and acknoledge them! grin

This group is much more relaxed and laid back than the uptight AOS
Forum.

Good growing,
Gene



"Ray" wrote in message
...
OK. No inferiority complexes are allowed here!

Sometimes messages get read and accepted without need for comment.
I,
too,
wonder if that's a compliment or insult, but what the hell.....

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Jerry Hoffmeister" wrote in message
s.com...
I
got sick of posting to the Forum only to have members of the
clique
say
the
same thing I just had, yet they got acknowledged while my post
went
unread,
for all I knew. I

Have never posted to the AOS Forum but have noticed this happening
to
me
sometimes on RGO or ABPO

can't be uptight, I read to unwind & enjoy everyone's messages here. I agree
with the comments about off track comments. we can have our fun, but still
stay on topic. To burn someone with a message is uncalled for.

Diane

What drives me crazy is how nasty it gets over there sometimes. And then you
have this one nut who keeps posting these long tearful goodbyes (taking
potshots at others in the process) saying he will never post again. And then
voila he is back a few weeks later.

Not too long ago a highly respected AOS judge got her clock cleaned over there
(or so the offenders thought.) Not a very honorable thing to do to a very
honorable lady.

A recent tirage spilled over to OSF where Andy and Lee were called everything
from incompetent to obese. Pretty apalling if you ask me.

I know Andy and Lee, and they have been great to me. I know sometimes heated
forum posts give pause, but I cannot imagine Andy is doing this without some
serious provocation. He really gets dissed over there.

I still read and post some on the sanderianum project, but I like reading here
a lot. Have not had time to post lately, but I enjoy coming here and reading
when I can. Usenet is seldom the ideal newsgroup for any hobby, but we are a
happy exception. This is a good group.

AOS is okay too, and will be better with the new screening procedures. I have
received many a private email there from people asking questions etc. who
feared to post having seen some nasty stuff. I think once the AOS forum is
moderated it will be much more what was originally intended.

And then we have this place for freedom to reign

Tom.

A moderator is not a bad thing. A controlling centralized reviewer,
automated or human, is one way to keep the discussion on track. With a
moderator, theoretically, a thread about Phalaenopsis culture would only
have info about Phalaenopsis culture even if it were conflicting info. A
personal attack on a person who grows Phalaenopsis differently might be
returned to me by the moderator with a note asking it to be re-written to
express my own experiences and Phal culture tips without reference to the
other grower. My goal in writing my comments in the first place might need
to be re-evaluated if I wish to see them posted on the moderated forum.

What the new moderator of the AOS forum does with this power will reveal
*their* goal. Do they want only to keep the discussion civil or are they
going to allow only THEIR view of good culture info to be posted. How they
moderate will determine if the forum is worth using.

A moderator is not possible here in rgo because there is no way to reproduce
a controlling centralized reviewer. I don't think there is anyway.

As far as I can see, all of the other forums ABOUT ORCHIDS on the internet ,
except this one, belong to somebody or to some organization. Freedom of
speech (the constitutionally protect type) has a counter balancing principle
in this ownership. It is likely within the rights of the individuals or
organizations who own and operate the forum to decide what gets posted in
their domain. One does not have unlimited freedom of speech in a private
domain, except as it is afforded by the owners of that domain. You can not
publish on my website what I do not want you to say, especially if you
depend on me to put it there.

Carry this counter balancing principle and it's relationship to the first
amendment to a certain level and the supreme court may get involved because
even at this level we do not have unlimited freedom of speech. But we are
not at this level when we talk about orchids in a public or private forum.
To put it bluntly it is just banal for me to bring up the first amendment in
an orchid forum because somebody with the ability to stop me from being an
asshole does so.

And as an inflammatory aside: moderated or not, I may still feel like
nobody likes me when I try to interact and do not get the response I want.
Even if somebody answers my question this feeling is mine and is not the
responsibility of anyone on the forum to alleviate. It is especially
important for me to realize that "no response" could have any one of a
thousand meanings or reasons and to ask myself why I narrow it down to one
that causes me to feel bad. It is very nice of people who make it a habit
to look out for the feelings of other posters to the group, but I think it
is important for me to realize that my feelings sometimes come from inside
me for reasons that others do not have much control over.

And I think the same thing applies when something I read feels like it
pushed my buttons. They are my buttons. I think a good strategy in these
forums is to keep my buttons and what they do to me private and I believe if
it appears that the button being pushed does nothing then maybe the people
pushing it will give up. My feelings and my responses to my feelings are
mine to control.

I would like to draw people's attention to their 'honor' button and to set
them the chore of watching how this button on others, when it is pushed, can
make them behave. These orchid newsgroups and lists have some wonderful
examples of honor buttons gone mad. It is interesting to observe how much
damage a person can appear to do to their own honor in the name of defending
it.

Okay. I guess I have put off repotting long as I can and haven't even said
anything interesting during the procrastination...

A moderator is not possible here in rgo because there is no way to reproduce
a controlling centralized reviewer. I don't think there is anyway.


There is a mechanism. There are plenty of moderated newsgroups. But I
don't think it is a good idea, either.

Rob (He's baaaack...)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

What the new moderator of the AOS forum does with this power will reveal
*their* goal. Do they want only to keep the discussion civil or are they
going to allow only THEIR view of good culture info to be posted. How they
moderate will determine if the forum is worth using.

Good points you have made. I and others who try to remain civilized over there
have actually received a fair amount of advance information about what is
coming. Those who scream and yell do not hear these things, and so much the
better.

The moderator is not going to be playing the "whose culture is best" game.
Moderation is purely intended to prevent nasty personal attacks and people
attacking AOS policy directly on the AOS forum.

AOS members will certainly be free to discuss AOS policy, but I for one am sick
and tired of paying for a website where people who are not members make
one-sided malicious attacks on an organization in which they are not a member
and are therefore not entitled to have any voice whatsoever.

To do such things on the organization's own website only adds to how ridiculous
such people are- and how appallingly presumptuous they can be.

The orchid world is a wierd place. I have yet to encounter any orchid society
that does not have its own vocal fringe element or that is not highly political
over at least one minor matter. So perhaps we just need a bit more policing at
times than others. One thing is for sure, few people heavily involved, or who
regularly impose themselves, are out for a love of plants and nothing else.

I do not frequent other sites for the reasons you have given- and for others
too. I am not interested in playing by someone else's agenda, and any orchid
discussion forum with more X-rated lewd talk boards than orchid boards clearly
is not a serious place to have a discussion. Time is valuable and I do not like
to waste mine sorting through junk to get to a few reasoned posts.

Cliques happen on the net boards for the same reason they happen in some orchid
societies- a few individuals with no life or little too be proud of have
decided to make a personal home out of what should be a place to discuss one
thing and one thing alone- orchids. Sure it is great to have some OT discussion
and the like, but some people clearly like to bunch up and make it their own
personal social hall- and to hell with anyone else.

And to say it again, I think this unmoderated board is where the best balance
is. I have yet to see any exclusive "groups" form or for anyone to come along
and spend ALL of their time on OT matters. We all love orchids here and it
shows. It is no mistake more newbies seem to come here than anywhere else.

Ok, I am off to repot too now. I was delaying as well. I love vacation days,
but now I risk having too much time on my hands

There have always been moderated newsgroups. I was referring to my
understanding that there is no way to convert an unmoderated newsgroup into
a moderated on once it's charter has been approved and the group initiated.
It doesn't make any sense that this is so, but that's the way I thought it
worked, or at least worked in the past. Things do change...

I would hate to see this newsgroup moderated.

To my friend who sent the private email about my comments on free speech in
this thread, (I know you're still reading this): How does the first
amendment guarantee us, as Americans, the right to say whatever we want
about whoever we want in the AOS forum just because we have paid our dues?

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech,
or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to
petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

Okay I will be quiet now...

"Rob Halgren" wrote in message
...

A moderator is not possible here in rgo because there is no way to
reproduce
a controlling centralized reviewer. I don't think there is anyway.


There is a mechanism. There are plenty of moderated newsgroups. But I
don't think it is a good idea, either.

Rob (He's baaaack...)

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Rob (He's baaaack...)

Was wondering where the rule maker was!

Diana