No doubt, but that was probably a response to more light, not an increase in
available oxygen!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Susan Erickson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 10:00:17 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

I would doubt it's any appreciable impact on the plants.

The biggest impact is on the plant growth. After we power washed
the walls down the plants took a growth spirit and the
inflorecences just popped up all over.
Besides the effort of emptying and moving everything, I never get
everything back where I want it.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

On Wed, 27 Aug 2003 13:54:14 -0400, "Ray"
wrote:

No doubt, but that was probably a response to more light, not an increase in
available oxygen!

That is what I meant. That CLEAN GLASS does make an impact.
Before the oxygen statement came in, there was a statement that
dirty glass was just shade.... too much shade.

It is very easy to not notice how green or covered the glass is
becoming. It changes so slowly over the course of months and
soon it is 2 -3 years since it has been clear. I am still
surprised to see how much more light is in the gh now.

SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/albums.php

I think plants would rather carbon dioxide.
It is also why talking to your plant is supposed
to be good for them.


Just another thought on algae..........It is alive & growing, so it's using
up the oxygen
that the plants need? Yes?
Cheers Wendy

An alternative to bleach spray is a weekly or biweekly spray with Physan or
other quartinary ammonium detergent. It doesn't remove algae but prevents
regrowth after cleaning. I use a capful of Physan per gallon of water and
spray until liquid runs down the greenhouse walls.Physan is odorless, doesn't
bleach clothing and has never harmed either plants or flowers.

David

Around here the strength of the bleach being sold is changing. Clorox was
first, but now the Food Lion brand has gone the ultra way as well. The
package says 96 ozs of the new stuff equals 128 ozs of the old. I think the
bleach has gone from a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution to a 4% solution. I
guess it is time to update the recipes for things like cleaning and lab
mixes. Not all 1% bleach solutions are the same any more.

Pat Brennan

"Ray" wrote in message
...
1 gallon is 128 fluid ounces. I used one ounce per gallon - close enough
at
0.78%.

1 cup is 8 fluid ounces, so 1/2 cup in 3 gallons is 1.04%.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Wendy" wrote in message
news:N923b.69391$kP.24441@fed1read03...
Yes Ray, I'm with you here & remember Wilford's discussions on this
before.
He uses 1% bleach, so I figured this out to:-
1 cup bleach to 3 gals water? Does this sound right?
I am going to allocate a day in the month to do this. I have just
been
washing the floors with bleach in the past.
Cheers Wendy

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, algae is a good attractant for snails, slugs, and all
sorts
of bugs - nothing like a nice fresh salad!

If one thinks that that's good, as it will deflect the advances toward
your
plants, forget it - it brings them right into the vicinity.

And as Wendy said, if it's on the GH covering, it will be elsewhere
eventually. I emptied my greenhouse this summer in order to
power-wash
the
thing - covering, inside and out, structure, benches, RO unit, water
tank -
you name it. What a LOT of work! You can betchurass I'll do a better
job
with the preventive sprayings from now on!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Bolero" wrote in message
u...
I don't bother. I like the extra stuff on the glass even if it is
unsightly
as it cuts down on light getting in.

Adds to the effect the shade cloth has.

"Gideon Singer" wrote in message
news I have a "small" 8ft square polycarb panel greenhouse that every
year
needs to be cleaned of algae. I was wondering, as I get ready for
another round of scrubbing and rinsing, what other people do to
keep
their greenhouse walls clean and free of algae?

Thanks for pointing that out Pat. I wondered why my hubby brought home such
a
small bottle of bleach? Cheers Wendy
"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
.. .
Around here the strength of the bleach being sold is changing. Clorox was
first, but now the Food Lion brand has gone the ultra way as well. The
package says 96 ozs of the new stuff equals 128 ozs of the old. I think
the
bleach has gone from a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution to a 4% solution.
I
guess it is time to update the recipes for things like cleaning and lab
mixes. Not all 1% bleach solutions are the same any more.

Pat Brennan

"Ray" wrote in message
...
1 gallon is 128 fluid ounces. I used one ounce per gallon - close
enough
at
0.78%.

1 cup is 8 fluid ounces, so 1/2 cup in 3 gallons is 1.04%.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Wendy" wrote in message
news:N923b.69391$kP.24441@fed1read03...
Yes Ray, I'm with you here & remember Wilford's discussions on this
before.
He uses 1% bleach, so I figured this out to:-
1 cup bleach to 3 gals water? Does this sound right?
I am going to allocate a day in the month to do this. I have just
been
washing the floors with bleach in the past.
Cheers Wendy

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, algae is a good attractant for snails, slugs, and all
sorts
of bugs - nothing like a nice fresh salad!

If one thinks that that's good, as it will deflect the advances
toward
your
plants, forget it - it brings them right into the vicinity.

And as Wendy said, if it's on the GH covering, it will be elsewhere
eventually. I emptied my greenhouse this summer in order to
power-wash
the
thing - covering, inside and out, structure, benches, RO unit, water
tank -
you name it. What a LOT of work! You can betchurass I'll do a
better
job
with the preventive sprayings from now on!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Bolero" wrote in message
u...
I don't bother. I like the extra stuff on the glass even if it is
unsightly
as it cuts down on light getting in.

Adds to the effect the shade cloth has.

"Gideon Singer" wrote in message
news I have a "small" 8ft square polycarb panel greenhouse that every
year
needs to be cleaned of algae. I was wondering, as I get ready
for
another round of scrubbing and rinsing, what other people do to
keep
their greenhouse walls clean and free of algae?

If I recall correctly, "standard" Clorox was 5% sodium hypochlorite, making
the "ultra" stuff 128/96 X 5% or 6.67% - even though the label on the
Safeway brand I looked at didn't even give an analysis, which surprises me.

I used a one ounce-per-gallon solution for general disinfection, which is
actually 0.78% bleach or 0.0039% sodium hypochlorite. With the "ultra"
stuff, that would be increased to 0.0052%. As a true 1% bleach solution in
the old days would have been 0.005% sodium hypochlorite, I doubt that the
increase in concentration matters much.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
.. .
Around here the strength of the bleach being sold is changing. Clorox was
first, but now the Food Lion brand has gone the ultra way as well. The
package says 96 ozs of the new stuff equals 128 ozs of the old. I think
the
bleach has gone from a 3% sodium hypochlorite solution to a 4% solution.
I
guess it is time to update the recipes for things like cleaning and lab
mixes. Not all 1% bleach solutions are the same any more.

Pat Brennan

"Ray" wrote in message
...
1 gallon is 128 fluid ounces. I used one ounce per gallon - close
enough
at
0.78%.

1 cup is 8 fluid ounces, so 1/2 cup in 3 gallons is 1.04%.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Wendy" wrote in message
news:N923b.69391$kP.24441@fed1read03...
Yes Ray, I'm with you here & remember Wilford's discussions on this
before.
He uses 1% bleach, so I figured this out to:-
1 cup bleach to 3 gals water? Does this sound right?
I am going to allocate a day in the month to do this. I have just
been
washing the floors with bleach in the past.
Cheers Wendy

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Unfortunately, algae is a good attractant for snails, slugs, and all
sorts
of bugs - nothing like a nice fresh salad!

If one thinks that that's good, as it will deflect the advances
toward
your
plants, forget it - it brings them right into the vicinity.

And as Wendy said, if it's on the GH covering, it will be elsewhere
eventually. I emptied my greenhouse this summer in order to
power-wash
the
thing - covering, inside and out, structure, benches, RO unit, water
tank -
you name it. What a LOT of work! You can betchurass I'll do a
better
job
with the preventive sprayings from now on!

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

. . . . . . . . . . .
"Bolero" wrote in message
u...
I don't bother. I like the extra stuff on the glass even if it is
unsightly
as it cuts down on light getting in.

Adds to the effect the shade cloth has.

"Gideon Singer" wrote in message
news I have a "small" 8ft square polycarb panel greenhouse that every
year
needs to be cleaned of algae. I was wondering, as I get ready
for
another round of scrubbing and rinsing, what other people do to
keep
their greenhouse walls clean and free of algae?

"Wendy" wrote in message news:sB23b.69617$kP.25605@fed1read03...
Just another thought on algae..........It is alive & growing, so it's using
up the oxygen
that the plants need? Yes?
Cheers Wendy


No. Plants use CO2 and give off oxygen as a waste product. Most of
the
oxygen presently on earth is the product of plant metabolism. (mostly
by marine plankton) Before oxygenating organisms evolved, Earth's
atmosphere was probably devoid of free oxygen.



J. Del Col

A note of caution about using bleach to control algae. My greenhouse has a gas
heater. The instructions for the heater warn against the use of chlorine
bleaches when the heater is in use. The fumes from the bleach can react with
the metal of the heat exchanger at the high temperatures that exist when the
heater is operating. This can, according the the instructions, greatly shorten
the life of the heat exchanger.

David

J. Del Col wrote:

"Wendy" wrote in message news:sB23b.69617$kP.25605@fed1read03...


Just another thought on algae..........It is alive & growing, so it's using
up the oxygen
that the plants need? Yes?
Cheers Wendy




No. Plants use CO2 and give off oxygen as a waste product. Most of
the
oxygen presently on earth is the product of plant metabolism. (mostly
by marine plankton) Before oxygenating organisms evolved, Earth's
atmosphere was probably devoid of free oxygen.



Well... A bit of an oversimplification, but close enough for
government work. Plants need oxygen too. Depending on the type of
metabolism (Oh yes, there are several types... nothing is simple), a
plant may fix carbon during the day (bringing in CO2 and turning it into
sugars and whatnot) and utilize that fixed carbon (respiration,
requiring oxygen just like animals do) at night. So, plants can
literally suck the oxygen _out_ of the air at night...

All that said, CO2 is always more limiting than O2. In fact, many
growers of numerous indoor crops (including peppers, tomatos, and
various illegal substances...) supplement their atmospheres with CO2,
either from a compressed gas tank or special propane burners. I've
heard (probably apocryphal) that the reason Terry Root grows such nice
plants at Orchid Zone is that he is downwind of a fossil fuel burning
electrical generation plant. Every little bit helps.

For your reading pleasure... The composition of dry air at sea level is

78.084 Mol% N2 (nitrogen)
20.948 Mol% O2 (oxygen)
0.0314 Mol% CO2 (carbon dioxide - and a scary coincidence with PI....)
And the rest a bunch of other stuff, including argon, krypton, neon,
helium, methane, and hydrogen. Needless to say, we don't need to be too
worried about plants sucking all the oxygen out of the air, and it
becomes obvious why a little extra CO2 can't hurt...

Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit

Right you are, David.

Chlorine can infiltrate the crystal structure of most steels, which can
result in stress corrosion cracking. It is more pronounced at higher
temperatures as the natural vibration of the metal atoms (causing the size
change we know as "thermal expansion") means there's more space between the
atoms for the chlorine to penetrate the crystal lattice.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"DKafkewitz" wrote in message
...
A note of caution about using bleach to control algae. My greenhouse has a
gas
heater. The instructions for the heater warn against the use of chlorine
bleaches when the heater is in use. The fumes from the bleach can react
with
the metal of the heat exchanger at the high temperatures that exist when
the
heater is operating. This can, according the the instructions, greatly
shorten
the life of the heat exchanger.

David

Hey, you were a lot closer than me. Just called Clorox. The old strength
was 5.25% and the new strength is 6%. I called Food Lion (no analysis on
their bottle either) and they said they would get back to me with the
percent in their Ultra. It will be fun to see if all Ultras are the same.

I have not adjusted percent bleach for disinfecting Phal stems and have not
noticed excessive bleach burns. But I am comparing old Clorox to ultra Food
Lion. I will have to figure this all out before doing any dry seeds as the
window between disinfecting and killing isn't all that big. Another reason
to catch the pods before they split.

As for general disinfection (i.e. pot disinfecting) I am reducing the amount
used as suggested on the bottle just as a cost saver. We use a lot of
bleach around here.

Pat Brennan


"Ray" wrote in message
...
If I recall correctly, "standard" Clorox was 5% sodium hypochlorite,
making
the "ultra" stuff 128/96 X 5% or 6.67% - even though the label on the
Safeway brand I looked at didn't even give an analysis, which surprises
me.

I used a one ounce-per-gallon solution for general disinfection, which is
actually 0.78% bleach or 0.0039% sodium hypochlorite. With the "ultra"
stuff, that would be increased to 0.0052%. As a true 1% bleach solution
in
the old days would have been 0.005% sodium hypochlorite, I doubt that the
increase in concentration matters much.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

Rob Halgren wrote in message ...
J. Del Col wrote:

"Wendy" wrote in message news:sB23b.69617$kP.25605@fed1read03...


Just another thought on algae..........It is alive & growing, so it's using
up the oxygen
that the plants need? Yes?
Cheers Wendy




No. Plants use CO2 and give off oxygen as a waste product. Most of
the
oxygen presently on earth is the product of plant metabolism. (mostly
by marine plankton) Before oxygenating organisms evolved, Earth's
atmosphere was probably devoid of free oxygen.



Well... A bit of an oversimplification, but close enough for
government work. Plants need oxygen too. Depending on the type of
metabolism (Oh yes, there are several types... nothing is simple), a
plant may fix carbon during the day (bringing in CO2 and turning it into
sugars and whatnot) and utilize that fixed carbon (respiration,
requiring oxygen just like animals do) at night. So, plants can
literally suck the oxygen _out_ of the air at night...

All that said, CO2 is always more limiting than O2. In fact, many
growers of numerous indoor crops (including peppers, tomatos, and
various illegal substances...) supplement their atmospheres with CO2,
either from a compressed gas tank or special propane burners.

The websites for somefirms that supply this stuff are amusingly vague
about
the applications.


For your reading pleasure... The composition of dry air at sea level is

78.084 Mol% N2 (nitrogen)
20.948 Mol% O2 (oxygen)
0.0314 Mol% CO2 (carbon dioxide - and a scary coincidence with PI....)

And the rest a bunch of other stuff, including argon, krypton, neon,
helium, methane, and hydrogen. Needless to say, we don't need to be too
worried about plants sucking all the oxygen out of the air, and it
becomes obvious why a little extra CO2 can't hurt...

Rob

Yes, I know I over-simplified.


Any plant growing set-up---greenhouse, basement, etc. should have
enough air exchange, even through the cracks,that lack of CO2, O2, or
any other gas isn't going to be a problem, no matter how many plants
are in it--something I should have said in my first post.


J. Del Col

Despite the cause of the algae on the greenhouse walls (and most of it,
I believe, comes from high humidity), the safest method for ridding it
is PHYSAN 20. Take a pint bottle and place a drop of Physan within and
fill with tap water. Should you spray your plants, you are less likely
to kill them with Physan than with clorax.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://www.pe.net/~profpam/page3.html
15% discount to RGO members for the month of September -- Labor Day
Special

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"J. Del Col" wrote:

Rob Halgren wrote in message ...
J. Del Col wrote:

"Wendy" wrote in message news:sB23b.69617$kP.25605@fed1read03...


Just another thought on algae..........It is alive & growing, so it's using
up the oxygen
that the plants need? Yes?
Cheers Wendy




No. Plants use CO2 and give off oxygen as a waste product. Most of
the
oxygen presently on earth is the product of plant metabolism. (mostly
by marine plankton) Before oxygenating organisms evolved, Earth's
atmosphere was probably devoid of free oxygen.



Well... A bit of an oversimplification, but close enough for
government work. Plants need oxygen too. Depending on the type of
metabolism (Oh yes, there are several types... nothing is simple), a
plant may fix carbon during the day (bringing in CO2 and turning it into
sugars and whatnot) and utilize that fixed carbon (respiration,
requiring oxygen just like animals do) at night. So, plants can
literally suck the oxygen _out_ of the air at night...

All that said, CO2 is always more limiting than O2. In fact, many
growers of numerous indoor crops (including peppers, tomatos, and
various illegal substances...) supplement their atmospheres with CO2,
either from a compressed gas tank or special propane burners.

The websites for somefirms that supply this stuff are amusingly vague
about
the applications.


For your reading pleasure... The composition of dry air at sea level is

78.084 Mol% N2 (nitrogen)
20.948 Mol% O2 (oxygen)
0.0314 Mol% CO2 (carbon dioxide - and a scary coincidence with PI....)

And the rest a bunch of other stuff, including argon, krypton, neon,
helium, methane, and hydrogen. Needless to say, we don't need to be too
worried about plants sucking all the oxygen out of the air, and it
becomes obvious why a little extra CO2 can't hurt...

Rob

Yes, I know I over-simplified.

Any plant growing set-up---greenhouse, basement, etc. should have
enough air exchange, even through the cracks,that lack of CO2, O2, or
any other gas isn't going to be a problem, no matter how many plants
are in it--something I should have said in my first post.

J. Del Col