Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago I posted about a phal I
rescued. Someone had been trimming the roots flush with the edges of the pot
for God knows how long, and the poor thing had four gigantic leaves, I mean
HUGE, and no new growth whatsoever. Well, nothing has changed. Since I
picked it up, it lost the flowers it had naturally over time, and has sat
here making those leaves bigger and nothing else. It has not put anything
out the crown, started a new spike, lengthened any roots, anything at all.
It just keeps looking generally unhappy, and throwing all its energy into
enlarging these giant leaves. The leaves are fleshy and stiff but they droop
due to their sheer size, and one is hypertrophied in the middle so that it
has started to split along the vein. There is no sign of rot, fungus, etc.
No spots on the leaves, and the leaves are a good color. The leaves are
currently about 40 cm. x 10 cm. I repotted it around five weeks ago.

Anyone have any suggestions for turning this fellow around?

Thanks,
Katrina


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Excessive growth of foliage is often related to excessive application of
nitrogen. What fertilizer are you using on it, and what is it potted in?

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"White Monkey" wrote in message
...
Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago I posted about a phal
I
rescued. Someone had been trimming the roots flush with the edges of the
pot
for God knows how long, and the poor thing had four gigantic leaves, I
mean
HUGE, and no new growth whatsoever. Well, nothing has changed. Since I
picked it up, it lost the flowers it had naturally over time, and has sat
here making those leaves bigger and nothing else. It has not put anything
out the crown, started a new spike, lengthened any roots, anything at all.
It just keeps looking generally unhappy, and throwing all its energy into
enlarging these giant leaves. The leaves are fleshy and stiff but they
droop
due to their sheer size, and one is hypertrophied in the middle so that it
has started to split along the vein. There is no sign of rot, fungus, etc.
No spots on the leaves, and the leaves are a good color. The leaves are
currently about 40 cm. x 10 cm. I repotted it around five weeks ago.

Anyone have any suggestions for turning this fellow around?

Thanks,
Katrina


---
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Have you tried a root stimulator such as Superthrive or K-L-N?

--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids

http://www.jborchids.com
"White Monkey" wrote in message
...
Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago I posted about a phal
I
rescued. Someone had been trimming the roots flush with the edges of the
pot
for God knows how long, and the poor thing had four gigantic leaves, I
mean
HUGE, and no new growth whatsoever. Well, nothing has changed. Since I
picked it up, it lost the flowers it had naturally over time, and has sat
here making those leaves bigger and nothing else. It has not put anything
out the crown, started a new spike, lengthened any roots, anything at all.
It just keeps looking generally unhappy, and throwing all its energy into
enlarging these giant leaves. The leaves are fleshy and stiff but they
droop
due to their sheer size, and one is hypertrophied in the middle so that it
has started to split along the vein. There is no sign of rot, fungus, etc.
No spots on the leaves, and the leaves are a good color. The leaves are
currently about 40 cm. x 10 cm. I repotted it around five weeks ago.

Anyone have any suggestions for turning this fellow around?

Thanks,
Katrina


---
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Katrina,

You say that you posted about this Phal "a couple of months ago" and that
since then "nothing has changed". I would not necessarily expect a new leaf
for example to develop in only a couple of months. How long have you had it?
How many leaves does this Phal have? Also, when you say HUGE, how many
inches or centimeters is that? Some Phal species and their hybrids have
really huge leaves, and that's normal for them (extreme example: phal
giganthea). Also some phals have longer periods of little new growth than
others. Do you happen to know the hybrid/species/perantage of this phal?

I am questioning whether your phal is necessarily a poor unhappy thing -- it
does not necessarily have to be, I think.

Joanna

"White Monkey" wrote in message
...
Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago I posted about a phal
I
rescued. Someone had been trimming the roots flush with the edges of the
pot
for God knows how long, and the poor thing had four gigantic leaves, I
mean
HUGE, and no new growth whatsoever. Well, nothing has changed. Since I
picked it up, it lost the flowers it had naturally over time, and has sat
here making those leaves bigger and nothing else. It has not put anything
out the crown, started a new spike, lengthened any roots, anything at all.
It just keeps looking generally unhappy, and throwing all its energy into
enlarging these giant leaves. The leaves are fleshy and stiff but they
droop
due to their sheer size, and one is hypertrophied in the middle so that it
has started to split along the vein. There is no sign of rot, fungus, etc.
No spots on the leaves, and the leaves are a good color. The leaves are
currently about 40 cm. x 10 cm. I repotted it around five weeks ago.

Anyone have any suggestions for turning this fellow around?

Thanks,
Katrina


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P.S.: While I of course agree that "trimming the roots flush with the edges
of the pot" is a horrible thing to do, in my (albeit limited) experience
Phals are extremely forgiving of abuse (much more so than we people are). I
once had an accident in which the window blinds fell on top of my Phal,
decapitating the spike, seriously scarring the leaves, and breaking the pot.
I was devastated/horrified. The Phal however just grew additional new
leaves, and developped a spike the next season, and continued almost as if
it had not considered this a major calamity at all. As I said, excedingly
forgiving.

Wow, 40 cm! That *seems* long, doesn't it?

Sometimes in low light conditions leaves grow large in order to collect more
light. So you'd have to look at the color of the leaf. If its a lush green
then that's not right. The leaves should be somehwhat lighter. Grass green
rather than houseplant (philodendron) green.

Sometimes mature phal leaves actually are 40 cm long. Depends on the
plant's parentage. Some of the classic white phals can get leaves that big
on a mature plant, so don't worry.

Also, remember orchids can sulk and can take a year to acclimate to its new
surroundings. So again, don't worry. It may just be getting used to you.

Additionally, remember most phals only bloom once a year and at the same
time of the year. I think this has something to do with daylength, either
lengthening or shortening. (I forget which and IMHO it doens't really matter
as long as the damn things blooms, *G*) But in any case, you say yours has
dropped its blooms over time, so it will bloom again same time next year.
Don't expect a new leaf in 5 weeks, like I say its probably just getting
used to you. But I think you'd see a new root pretty soon in response to
the repot (next 1-2 months). Orchids aren't like regular houseplants. They
have minds of their own. You won't see immediate results. You have to learn
patience. Treat it consistently, it will learn its new regimen and respond.

Which brings up another thing. Diurnal fluctuation (I love that word).
Remember that any phal needs at least a 10 degree (F) difference between
daytime high temps and nightime low temps in order to bloom. You can't keep
it at 70F all year long and expect it to bloom. It won't do it. Set you
home's thermostat to be no less than 60(F) at night (for while you are snug
in bed asleep), and 72(F) or so during the day (while you are up and around)
and you'll be comfortable and so will your plant.

You say the original owner cut the roots flush with the pot's edge. Were
those only the aerial roots? Or the ones in the pot too? If only the aerial
roots don't sweat it. The ones in the pot make up for them.

As Ray says too much fertilizer can be too much of a good thing. Make sure
you are using it at 1/2 the strength the manufacturer recommends on the
label.

Do all that and you'll be up to your neck in blooms this time next year.

K Barrett

"White Monkey" wrote in message
...
Some of you may remember that a couple of months ago I posted about a phal
I
rescued. Someone had been trimming the roots flush with the edges of the
pot
for God knows how long, and the poor thing had four gigantic leaves, I
mean
HUGE, and no new growth whatsoever. Well, nothing has changed. Since I
picked it up, it lost the flowers it had naturally over time, and has sat
here making those leaves bigger and nothing else. It has not put anything
out the crown, started a new spike, lengthened any roots, anything at all.
It just keeps looking generally unhappy, and throwing all its energy into
enlarging these giant leaves. The leaves are fleshy and stiff but they
droop
due to their sheer size, and one is hypertrophied in the middle so that it
has started to split along the vein. There is no sign of rot, fungus, etc.
No spots on the leaves, and the leaves are a good color. The leaves are
currently about 40 cm. x 10 cm. I repotted it around five weeks ago.

Anyone have any suggestions for turning this fellow around?

Thanks,
Katrina


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"Ray" wrote in message
...
Excessive growth of foliage is often related to excessive application of
nitrogen. What fertilizer are you using on it, and what is it potted in?


Thanks! I haven't given it anything because I've read that fertilizers can
be damaging in cases of root damage. It's potted in a sort of peaty stuff
with large chunks of what looks like redwood bark. This is what is sold here
just labeled "orchid soil", and some of the other phals are thriving in it.
--Katrina


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"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Have you tried a root stimulator such as Superthrive or K-L-N?


I have not--I'll see what is available here in the Netherlands. Thanks!
--Katrina


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You say that you posted about this Phal "a couple of months ago" and that
since then "nothing has changed". I would not necessarily expect a new
leaf
for example to develop in only a couple of months. How long have you had
it?

About 10 weeks.

How many leaves does this Phal have?

Four.

Also, when you say HUGE, how many
inches or centimeters is that? Some Phal species and their hybrids have
really huge leaves, and that's normal for them (extreme example: phal
giganthea).

These leaves are +/- 40 cm long and +/-10 cm. wide. They are much larger
than the leaves on another one here with similarly-sized flowers, if that's
worth anything. But the corwn they're growing from isn't any thicker than
those of the other phals I have.

Also some phals have longer periods of little new growth than
others. Do you happen to know the hybrid/species/perantage of this phal?

No, but a quick Google turns up that except for having red lips, it looked
(while flowering) vary much like the one labeled "classic white" on this
page: http://www.beautifulorchids.com/orchids/quick_buy5.html

I am questioning whether your phal is necessarily a poor unhappy thing --
it
does not necessarily have to be, I think.

This would make me happy. I'll keep thinking it's probably OK as long as it
doesn't start looking bad, I guess! Thank you!

--Katrina



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Lack of food could play a role, as well, but I doubt that 10 weeks is
sufficient time for the thing to get acclimated toy your conditions,
especially if they run on the cool side. Phals prefer to go no lower than
about 12° to 15°C at night, and grow really well at daytime temperatures
around 25° or so.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"White Monkey" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Excessive growth of foliage is often related to excessive application of
nitrogen. What fertilizer are you using on it, and what is it potted
in?


Thanks! I haven't given it anything because I've read that fertilizers can
be damaging in cases of root damage. It's potted in a sort of peaty stuff
with large chunks of what looks like redwood bark. This is what is sold
here
just labeled "orchid soil", and some of the other phals are thriving in
it.
--Katrina


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Hi Katrina. I like the comment on the root stimulator - that might
help. I bought a seedling in May and it lost all it's roots and became
wrinkly. I cut off all the dead roots, put it in peat moss and kept the
moss damp and misted the leaves when I knew they'd dry (not at night)
and now I now have the startings of a new root. It takes along time but
as long as your plant seems alive I'd hang in there. I have mine near an
east window with blinds and under a plant light. Good luck

Katrina,

As some others have pointed out already 10 weeks of inactivity is really not
all that worisome. I have had Phals that were quite healthy not do much in a
similar length of time. I believe a healthy Phal is expected to grow a new
leaf on average every 4 months or so -- but since this is on average, I
would not worry even if it did not grow a new leaf in that much time as long
as the leaves it has look healthy. Four healthy leaves means that it's
probably healthy enough. Just observe it, be patient. Try to adjust
conditions to be as favorable as possible, and it should be fine.

40 centimeters leaf length (about 15 to 16 inches) is indeed quite big, but
I think I have seen some mature white Phals with leaves that size. You say
that "They are much larger than the leaves on another one here with
similarly-sized flowers". One thing that I have observed is that Phal
flowers can be really big even on really young plants. As the plant grows
older the leaves will grow in size, but I don't think the flower size
increases by all that much (though the number of flowers will increase). So
you might just have an older plant than the other ones you observed. Also
there is much variety in so called "standard white Phals". Just because we
humans cannot tell the plants apart without knowing their names and heritage
does not mean that two similar looking plants are not very different. So the
other ones you saw might have been smaller leaved hybrids.

Also, if I were you I would listen to Kathy Barrett's advice. I think she
has a good point that low light conditions might have caused the leaves to
grow more. If your office (where you got your plant from) is anything like
my office, it's probable that the plant had to struggle to get enough light
there, unless it was close to a good window.

In general I have found with my plants and with those of people I know that
a good spot is the single most important thing: if you put the plant
somewhere where it is happy (right amount of light, good enough humidity,
the right temperature and day/night fluctuations, etc), it should do well
with minimal care.

All the best,
Joanna

"White Monkey" wrote in message
...
You say that you posted about this Phal "a couple of months ago" and
that
since then "nothing has changed". I would not necessarily expect a new
leaf
for example to develop in only a couple of months. How long have you had
it?

About 10 weeks.

How many leaves does this Phal have?

Four.

Also, when you say HUGE, how many
inches or centimeters is that? Some Phal species and their hybrids have
really huge leaves, and that's normal for them (extreme example: phal
giganthea).

These leaves are +/- 40 cm long and +/-10 cm. wide. They are much larger
than the leaves on another one here with similarly-sized flowers, if
that's
worth anything. But the corwn they're growing from isn't any thicker than
those of the other phals I have.

Also some phals have longer periods of little new growth than
others. Do you happen to know the hybrid/species/perantage of this phal?

No, but a quick Google turns up that except for having red lips, it looked
(while flowering) vary much like the one labeled "classic white" on this
page: http://www.beautifulorchids.com/orchids/quick_buy5.html

I am questioning whether your phal is necessarily a poor unhappy
thing --
it
does not necessarily have to be, I think.

This would make me happy. I'll keep thinking it's probably OK as long as
it
doesn't start looking bad, I guess! Thank you!

--Katrina



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"Ray" wrote in message
...
Lack of food could play a role, as well, but I doubt that 10 weeks is
sufficient time for the thing to get acclimated toy your conditions,
especially if they run on the cool side. Phals prefer to go no lower than
about 12° to 15°C at night, and grow really well at daytime temperatures
around 25° or so.


Hmmm. I bought it off a market stall that they just locked up at night, so
the thing had been doing basically outdoor nights before I put it in the
living room. No idea for how long, but it gets below freezing out there
these days. Anyway, it sounds like it's too early to be worried! Thanks!
--Katrina


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As some others have pointed out already 10 weeks of inactivity is really
not
all that worisome. I have had Phals that were quite healthy not do much in
a
similar length of time. I believe a healthy Phal is expected to grow a new
leaf on average every 4 months or so -- but since this is on average, I
would not worry even if it did not grow a new leaf in that much time as
long
as the leaves it has look healthy. Four healthy leaves means that it's
probably healthy enough. Just observe it, be patient. Try to adjust
conditions to be as favorable as possible, and it should be fine.

Thanks, will do.

40 centimeters leaf length (about 15 to 16 inches) is indeed quite big,
but
I think I have seen some mature white Phals with leaves that size. You say
that "They are much larger than the leaves on another one here with
similarly-sized flowers". One thing that I have observed is that Phal
flowers can be really big even on really young plants. As the plant grows
older the leaves will grow in size, but I don't think the flower size
increases by all that much (though the number of flowers will increase).
So
you might just have an older plant than the other ones you observed.

Cool! Very good to know.

Also
there is much variety in so called "standard white Phals". Just because we
humans cannot tell the plants apart without knowing their names and
heritage
does not mean that two similar looking plants are not very different.

Yes, I know. That's why I said I don't know what it is even though it
resembles the one in the picture.

Also, if I were you I would listen to Kathy Barrett's advice. I think she
has a good point that low light conditions might have caused the leaves to
grow more. If your office (where you got your plant from) is anything like
my office, it's probable that the plant had to struggle to get enough
light
there, unless it was close to a good window.

I didn't get it at an office. I am an illustrator and I work from home. I
got it at a market stall, open air. Irt was probably forced into flower
under lights or something, as that's the standard way they do it here, then
ripped from what it had come to think of as pretty flush conditions, if a
little harried, then left in the market stall for as long as it took to
render the roots in the state they were in when I found it. Now, it is with
my other ones in the only place that gets enough light at this time of year
without descending to just about freezing at night. That's the center of the
dining table, in the living room. It'll be nice when we can get a new
apartment and we can all stop living in the dark, but since one of my phals
is throwing out a new leaf and the two German green ones are showing no
signs of losing their flowers, it must be a decent enough spot right there.

In general I have found with my plants and with those of people I know
that
a good spot is the single most important thing: if you put the plant
somewhere where it is happy (right amount of light, good enough humidity,
the right temperature and day/night fluctuations, etc), it should do well
with minimal care.

You are very encouraging, and I'll stop thinking this one might be dying and
start thinking it's probably just getting itself together. Thank you!

--Katrina


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"K Barrett" wrote in message
news:BshJb.725036$Tr4.1833038@attbi_s03...
Wow, 40 cm! That *seems* long, doesn't it?
Sometimes in low light conditions leaves grow large in order to collect
more
light. So you'd have to look at the color of the leaf. If its a lush green
then that's not right. The leaves should be somehwhat lighter. Grass
green
rather than houseplant (philodendron) green.

Thanks. Yup, I probably do have a minor light problem--none of my phals is
downright fiorest green or anything, but they are darker than grass. Ummm...
I guess they look a bit like the green bits on my Golden Queen Pothos, here.
Sadly, this is a run-down old Amsterdam apartment, and these guys can't go
back into the bedroom, due to low temperatures, until spring. That's where
all the light is, and it should be the living room, but we have a bone to
pick with whoever designed this place.

Sometimes mature phal leaves actually are 40 cm long. Depends on the
plant's parentage. Some of the classic white phals can get leaves that big
on a mature plant, so don't worry.

OK, excellent. I've been trying to build up a little variety here, and this
one looks good next to the one with the long, spiky leaves.

Also, remember orchids can sulk and can take a year to acclimate to its
new
surroundings. So again, don't worry. It may just be getting used to you.

I know. I got impatient. Thank you.

Additionally, remember most phals only bloom once a year and at the same
time of the year.

Yup, I know this. I'm not one of these people who thinks the only living,
or, for that matter, attractive plant is a blooming one, and I study
everything I get to the point of obscession. (Then come on here and ask for
help sorting the information!)

But I think you'd see a new root pretty soon in response to
the repot (next 1-2 months).

That'd please me no end!

Orchids aren't like regular houseplants. They
have minds of their own. You won't see immediate results. You have to
learn
patience.

You're confusing lack of knowledge with lack of patience. I'm not surprised
to learn it's not a surprise it hasn't turned around yet--but I didn't know
for sure and wanted to try to do something before it was too late, if it was
going to get to be too late.

Treat it consistently, it will learn its new regimen and respond.

Thanks. This I will do.

Which brings up another thing. Diurnal fluctuation (I love that word).
Remember that any phal needs at least a 10 degree (F) difference between
daytime high temps and nightime low temps in order to bloom. You can't
keep
it at 70F all year long and expect it to bloom. It won't do it. Set you
home's thermostat to be no less than 60(F) at night (for while you are
snug
in bed asleep), and 72(F) or so during the day (while you are up and
around)
and you'll be comfortable and so will your plant.

Eeehm... we don't have a thermostat. Only the living room is heated, with
that heat expected to filter over to my husband's office and a tiny bit into
the bathroom, and we just have to crank the gas heater up until we feel warm
enough. Then we turn it off late at night, go to bed in the freezing room,
and turn the heater on again in the morning. I'd bet the room doesn't get
below 40 (Fahrenheit, obviously) at night even when it's several degrees
below zero (Celsius, of course) outside, and it doesn't get above 70 or so
in here by day. So the fluctuation is there--it jsut fluctuates a bit far, I
guess. I've been thinking of trying these guys out in big bell jars, but
can't afford to get the jars.

You say the original owner cut the roots flush with the pot's edge. Were
those only the aerial roots? Or the ones in the pot too? If only the
aerial
roots don't sweat it. The ones in the pot make up for them.

Shopkeeper. Yes. This was the aerial ones, any that so much as peeked over
the edge, and any that grew through the slits in the bottom of the
desperately overcrowded pot. Roots in there had suffocated each other, it
looked like, it was so crowded in there. I saw that once in a ficus someone
had left in a tiny pot forEVER, but in that case those roots had even
*strangled* each other, up at the tree end, in spots.

As Ray says too much fertilizer can be too much of a good thing. Make sure
you are using it at 1/2 the strength the manufacturer recommends on the
label.

That much I know! Thanks.

Do all that and you'll be up to your neck in blooms this time next year.

Thanks! Nice! It's not the flowers I was so concerned about, so's you
know--I like the foliage too. I just wanted to make sure the thing isn't at
death's door! I stand reassured!

Thank you,

Katrina


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