On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity. Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering. This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed, you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity. Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering. This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed, you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

There is no problem for the plants if the humidity is very high, as long as
you've got lots of air movement, courtesy of fans in the room.

Your drywall (I guess that's a misnomer for your conditions), is a whole
different issue.

I was not suggesting that a 2 gph unit was needed for you, merely that when
selecting between the 0.5 liter and 1.5 liter unit, I'd go with the larger
one and a humidistat, as it's easy to cut back on a device's output, but
impossible to increase it beyond the design max. The whole scientific tome
was merely to show that even 1.5 liters might not be as far out of the
ballpark as it may seem.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

There is no problem for the plants if the humidity is very high, as long as
you've got lots of air movement, courtesy of fans in the room.

Your drywall (I guess that's a misnomer for your conditions), is a whole
different issue.

I was not suggesting that a 2 gph unit was needed for you, merely that when
selecting between the 0.5 liter and 1.5 liter unit, I'd go with the larger
one and a humidistat, as it's easy to cut back on a device's output, but
impossible to increase it beyond the design max. The whole scientific tome
was merely to show that even 1.5 liters might not be as far out of the
ballpark as it may seem.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

There is no problem for the plants if the humidity is very high, as long as
you've got lots of air movement, courtesy of fans in the room.

Your drywall (I guess that's a misnomer for your conditions), is a whole
different issue.

I was not suggesting that a 2 gph unit was needed for you, merely that when
selecting between the 0.5 liter and 1.5 liter unit, I'd go with the larger
one and a humidistat, as it's easy to cut back on a device's output, but
impossible to increase it beyond the design max. The whole scientific tome
was merely to show that even 1.5 liters might not be as far out of the
ballpark as it may seem.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

There is no problem for the plants if the humidity is very high, as long as
you've got lots of air movement, courtesy of fans in the room.

Your drywall (I guess that's a misnomer for your conditions), is a whole
different issue.

I was not suggesting that a 2 gph unit was needed for you, merely that when
selecting between the 0.5 liter and 1.5 liter unit, I'd go with the larger
one and a humidistat, as it's easy to cut back on a device's output, but
impossible to increase it beyond the design max. The whole scientific tome
was merely to show that even 1.5 liters might not be as far out of the
ballpark as it may seem.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Books, Artwork, and Lots of Free Info!

.. . . . . . . . . . .
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

I converted a "regular room" to a "plant room" - although my method is a
little expensive, it has worked well for me.

I tore out all of the sheetrock and insulated all the walls and ceiling. I
installed "green rock" which is the moisture resistant sheet rock used in
bathrooms. I applied primer to the walls and then used 1 part epoxy paint on
the walls to provide a solid moisture barrier (recommended by several
commercial painting contractors, but not by the paint manufacturer). I
removed all of the trim and replaced it with molded polystyrene foam trim
(looks and paints like wood but won't rot with the high humidity). I
installed vinyl clad windows and a vinyl clad 8 foot tall by 6 foot wide
sliding glass door and used multicellular PVC for the window casings - no
chance of rot. I caulked everything with a paintable silicone caulk. I added
plumbing for a sink and a JayBird Manufacturing Hydrofogger
(http://www.jaybird-mfg.com/) which is controlled by a humidistat. The
hydrofogger takes the same tubing as a refrigerator icemaker. I also have a
thermostat for a portable oil filled heater. The room is currently sealed
off from the rest of the house by plastic sheeting, but this will soon be
replaced by a glass wall/door. The floor is ceramic tile. With the
temperatures in the single digits outside I am able to keep the night time
temperatures at 60 degrees F and daytime temperatures at 75 degrees F.
Humidity is kept constant at whatever level I want - I kept it at 70% but
was having some mildew buildup, so I lowered the humidity to 60%. This is a
little extreme, but since building codes prohibit greenhouses, I didn't have
much choice...

Sorry for rambling - hope something in here is of interest...

John
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

I converted a "regular room" to a "plant room" - although my method is a
little expensive, it has worked well for me.

I tore out all of the sheetrock and insulated all the walls and ceiling. I
installed "green rock" which is the moisture resistant sheet rock used in
bathrooms. I applied primer to the walls and then used 1 part epoxy paint on
the walls to provide a solid moisture barrier (recommended by several
commercial painting contractors, but not by the paint manufacturer). I
removed all of the trim and replaced it with molded polystyrene foam trim
(looks and paints like wood but won't rot with the high humidity). I
installed vinyl clad windows and a vinyl clad 8 foot tall by 6 foot wide
sliding glass door and used multicellular PVC for the window casings - no
chance of rot. I caulked everything with a paintable silicone caulk. I added
plumbing for a sink and a JayBird Manufacturing Hydrofogger
(http://www.jaybird-mfg.com/) which is controlled by a humidistat. The
hydrofogger takes the same tubing as a refrigerator icemaker. I also have a
thermostat for a portable oil filled heater. The room is currently sealed
off from the rest of the house by plastic sheeting, but this will soon be
replaced by a glass wall/door. The floor is ceramic tile. With the
temperatures in the single digits outside I am able to keep the night time
temperatures at 60 degrees F and daytime temperatures at 75 degrees F.
Humidity is kept constant at whatever level I want - I kept it at 70% but
was having some mildew buildup, so I lowered the humidity to 60%. This is a
little extreme, but since building codes prohibit greenhouses, I didn't have
much choice...

Sorry for rambling - hope something in here is of interest...

John
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

I converted a "regular room" to a "plant room" - although my method is a
little expensive, it has worked well for me.

I tore out all of the sheetrock and insulated all the walls and ceiling. I
installed "green rock" which is the moisture resistant sheet rock used in
bathrooms. I applied primer to the walls and then used 1 part epoxy paint on
the walls to provide a solid moisture barrier (recommended by several
commercial painting contractors, but not by the paint manufacturer). I
removed all of the trim and replaced it with molded polystyrene foam trim
(looks and paints like wood but won't rot with the high humidity). I
installed vinyl clad windows and a vinyl clad 8 foot tall by 6 foot wide
sliding glass door and used multicellular PVC for the window casings - no
chance of rot. I caulked everything with a paintable silicone caulk. I added
plumbing for a sink and a JayBird Manufacturing Hydrofogger
(http://www.jaybird-mfg.com/) which is controlled by a humidistat. The
hydrofogger takes the same tubing as a refrigerator icemaker. I also have a
thermostat for a portable oil filled heater. The room is currently sealed
off from the rest of the house by plastic sheeting, but this will soon be
replaced by a glass wall/door. The floor is ceramic tile. With the
temperatures in the single digits outside I am able to keep the night time
temperatures at 60 degrees F and daytime temperatures at 75 degrees F.
Humidity is kept constant at whatever level I want - I kept it at 70% but
was having some mildew buildup, so I lowered the humidity to 60%. This is a
little extreme, but since building codes prohibit greenhouses, I didn't have
much choice...

Sorry for rambling - hope something in here is of interest...

John
"Doug Bolton" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 15:35:27 -0500, "Ray"

wrote:

Doug,

There are many things to consider when working on boosting humidity.
Unless
the room is sealed off from the rest of the house, anything you do will
be
attempting to humidify the whole house.

It's a regular room that's totally enclosed except for an interior door
that
gives access to the rest of the house. I haven't sealed the door.

I did install a fan to vent excess humidity to the outside via clothes
dryer
ducting to a roof vent. The fan is controlled by a humidistat. When I
water the
humidity soars to 87-90% during the night and down to perhaps 75% during
the day
as the room heats to about 79°F. Night temp is about 64-68°F. Wish now I'd
installed a quieter fan (it's next to my bedroom) with 110CFM instead of
the
noisy 50CFM one. Thought it'd draw too much humidity out. No way. It'd go
all
night if I let it after I water. And that's just to get it down to 80%. So
that's a project I'm going to undertake this fall. The space under the
door is
where the fan draws air as it expels the room air. As the room dries off
from
the watering the humidity drops to perhaps 50% before the next watering.
This is
without an humidifier (or equivalent). I've found that adding an
humidifier did
even things out and prevented that sort of drop.

As this isn't a greenhouse situation I do have to be aware of the effect
of
excess humidity on the gyprock (plasterboard?) walls. Already had to redo
a part
of the single windowsill because I wasn't bailing it enough when I first
set
this up. Now that's a daily chore. And there's no water source in there to
hook
a fogger to. I did have a look at the smallest JBird. Seems way in excess
of
what I need in winter though in summer I do keep the window open to cool
the
room down so it'd probably be suitable then. 2 gallons an hour seems too
much.
Think .5 might be more suitable. Is there such a thing?

Doug

If we assume that the room IS sealed off, and has an 8' ceiling, the
volume
of the room is 480 cubic feet. At 80°F, 100% RH occurs when there is
about
250 ml of water in the air. If we assume your whole house is about 1600
square feet of floorspace, that's a volume of 12,800 cubic feet, meaning
that the 100% RH level needs almost 6.6 liters of water! If we drop that
back to 65% RH, it still means that there must be 4.3 liters of water in
the
air.

Knowing full well that your house is not likely to be totally sealed,
you've
got to figure on moisture escaping to the outside, meaning that you have
to
keep adding it. (I sure wish there was a way to know what that rate
was...)

Anyway, you're better off with something with a large capacity, and
connecting it to a humidistat, rather than getting something small and
hoping it is enough.

As an example, in a friend's greenhouse - about 2000 cubic feet and tight
except for around the door - there is a 2 gph fogger, and in the really
cold, dry days lately, it works full time to maintain 70% humidity. At
70°F, that volume only holds 0.2 gallons of water, so he's losing 10x
that
in an hour!

By the way, I put a moisture-capacity calculator on my website if you
want
to play around:
http://www.firstrays.com/moistcalc.htm

Ok, it's been awhile. An update.

I recently purchased a home humidifier that seems more suited to indoor use for
Orchids than the usual ones I've tried.

It's the FamilyCare HV760. Holds 3.8 litres. There's also a 7.6 litre version.
This is an impeller humidifier. It produces cool mist (more like a tiny spray as
it's not really fine enough to define as a mist) by, I'm guessing, agitation. No
nasty wick to maintain. The water here is very soft so I've had to add about 1/2
teaspoon of baking soda to get it to work. Working well now in a 6x12 room. Cost
$30cdn so it's quite inexpensive.

Didn't want anything that produced heat so the warm mist types were out. Early
days but it does seem to work. As I believe Ray said, creates a bit of a mess on
the floor with the water spray so I've put it in an open plastic tub.

Doug Bolton

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 07:41:39 -0500, "Ray"
wrote:

There is no problem for the plants if the humidity is very high, as long as
you've got lots of air movement, courtesy of fans in the room.

Your drywall (I guess that's a misnomer for your conditions), is a whole
different issue.

I was not suggesting that a 2 gph unit was needed for you, merely that when
selecting between the 0.5 liter and 1.5 liter unit, I'd go with the larger
one and a humidistat, as it's easy to cut back on a device's output, but
impossible to increase it beyond the design max. The whole scientific tome
was merely to show that even 1.5 liters might not be as far out of the
ballpark as it may seem.

Doug Bolton wrote:

Ok, it's been awhile. An update.

I recently purchased a home humidifier that seems more suited to indoor use for
Orchids than the usual ones I've tried.

It's the FamilyCare HV760. Holds 3.8 litres. There's also a 7.6 litre version.
This is an impeller humidifier. It produces cool mist (more like a tiny spray as
it's not really fine enough to define as a mist) by, I'm guessing, agitation. No
nasty wick to maintain. The water here is very soft so I've had to add about 1/2
teaspoon of baking soda to get it to work. Working well now in a 6x12 room. Cost
$30cdn so it's quite inexpensive.



Probably ultrasonic. Which is agitation, just using sound waves.
Be aware that these types will also agitate whatever dissolved solids
that might be in your water into the water droplets. So, eventually you
might start to see a powdery substance building up on surfaces. Usually
white. You can get it off with lime-away, usually (works on most orchid
leaves, as well).

The evaporative humdifiers don't have the white dust problem. They
leave dissolved solids behind in that nasty wick. But I agree, they are
a pain in the rear. My problem is that I can never find new wicks, by
the time I change mine the models have all changed so that you have to
buy a new machine. I think that is planned obsolescence. I like my
centrifugal fogger (jaybird) that whirls water into a fine mist. I use
RO water so that I don't get that nasty white dust. It is really too
much for a house application though, best in a enclosed room or a
greenhouse.


Rob

--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a. See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to purchase
more orchids, obtain more credit
LittlefrogFarm is open for business - e-mail me for a list of
minicatts and oncidiums )

On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:51:45 GMT, Doug Bolton
wrote in Message-Id: :


I recently purchased a home humidifier that seems more suited to indoor use for
Orchids than the usual ones I've tried.

It's the FamilyCare HV760. Holds 3.8 litres. There's also a 7.6 litre version.
This is an impeller humidifier. It produces cool mist (more like a tiny spray as
it's not really fine enough to define as a mist) by, I'm guessing, agitation. No
nasty wick to maintain. The water here is very soft so I've had to add about 1/2
teaspoon of baking soda to get it to work. Working well now in a 6x12 room. Cost
$30cdn so it's quite inexpensive.

Didn't want anything that produced heat so the warm mist types were out. Early
days but it does seem to work. As I believe Ray said, creates a bit of a mess on
the floor with the water spray so I've put it in an open plastic tub.


I can recommend the ultrasonic model D204 (available he
http://www.mainlandmart.com/humidify.html at $39.50 shipping included)
for maintaining humidity in a warden case. If you fill it with RO
water, there's no problem with dissolved solid build up. The built in
humidistat isn't too good, but it's easy to add a commercial on in the
line cord.

Perhaps this one could be adapted:

http://www.fairradio.com/comisc.htm
HONEYWELL DEHUMIDIFIER CONTROL as used in home dehumidifiers.
Plastic element tape senses humidity and opens normally-closed 120
VAC contacts; has variable control. 1.8x4.5x1, 1 lb. #H46A1103,
unused, $2.95

--

Irrational beliefs ultimately lead to irrational acts.
-- Larry Dighera,

On Wed, 26 May 2004 16:07:14 -0400, Rob Halgren
wrote:

Doug Bolton wrote:

Ok, it's been awhile. An update.

I recently purchased a home humidifier that seems more suited to indoor use for
Orchids than the usual ones I've tried.

It's the FamilyCare HV760. Holds 3.8 litres. There's also a 7.6 litre version.
This is an impeller humidifier. It produces cool mist (more like a tiny spray as
it's not really fine enough to define as a mist) by, I'm guessing, agitation. No
nasty wick to maintain. The water here is very soft so I've had to add about 1/2
teaspoon of baking soda to get it to work. Working well now in a 6x12 room. Cost
$30cdn so it's quite inexpensive.



Probably ultrasonic. Which is agitation, just using sound waves.
Be aware that these types will also agitate whatever dissolved solids
that might be in your water into the water droplets. So, eventually you
might start to see a powdery substance building up on surfaces. Usually
white. You can get it off with lime-away, usually (works on most orchid
leaves, as well).

Donno about ultrasonic. Pamphlet makes no mention. Certainly doesn't produce the
fine mist that ultrasonics do.

Was told there's no white dust. Our water's so soft here that I had to add about
a half teaspoon of baking soda to make it work. Add more it works faster. And
makes quite a watery mess.

The evaporative humdifiers don't have the white dust problem. They
leave dissolved solids behind in that nasty wick. But I agree, they are
a pain in the rear. My problem is that I can never find new wicks, by
the time I change mine the models have all changed so that you have to
buy a new machine. I think that is planned obsolescence.

That's funny! I found that the wicks were drying out way to fast to be useful.
Would need some sort of swamp cooler continual wetting solution to make it work.

I like my
centrifugal fogger (jaybird) that whirls water into a fine mist. I use
RO water so that I don't get that nasty white dust. It is really too
much for a house application though, best in a enclosed room or a
greenhouse.

Rob

I did have a look at the JayBirds. Not practical for me. Too much I think and
there's no source of water in the room so I'd have to rig some sort of reservoir
thingy. Don't need a lot right now. Summer's different. Open windows suck the
humidity out fast enough that a centrifugal may be warranted then. Otherwise
not.

Doug

On Fri, 28 May 2004 14:47:53 GMT, Larry Dighera wrote:

On Wed, 26 May 2004 19:51:45 GMT, Doug Bolton
wrote in Message-Id: :


I recently purchased a home humidifier that seems more suited to indoor use for
Orchids than the usual ones I've tried.

It's the FamilyCare HV760. Holds 3.8 litres. There's also a 7.6 litre version.
This is an impeller humidifier. It produces cool mist (more like a tiny spray as
it's not really fine enough to define as a mist) by, I'm guessing, agitation. No
nasty wick to maintain. The water here is very soft so I've had to add about 1/2
teaspoon of baking soda to get it to work. Working well now in a 6x12 room. Cost
$30cdn so it's quite inexpensive.

Didn't want anything that produced heat so the warm mist types were out. Early
days but it does seem to work. As I believe Ray said, creates a bit of a mess on
the floor with the water spray so I've put it in an open plastic tub.



I can recommend the ultrasonic model D204 (available he
http://www.mainlandmart.com/humidify.html at $39.50 shipping included)
for maintaining humidity in a warden case.

Errr.... I'm sure that'd work for the aforementioned warden case. I'm referring
to a 6' x 12' room that's been given over to growing orchids. So it's a bit
larger than your usual warden case.

If you fill it with RO
water, there's no problem with dissolved solid build up. The built in
humidistat isn't too good, but it's easy to add a commercial on in the
line cord.

Perhaps this one could be adapted:

http://www.fairradio.com/comisc.htm
HONEYWELL DEHUMIDIFIER CONTROL as used in home dehumidifiers.
Plastic element tape senses humidity and opens normally-closed 120
VAC contacts; has variable control. 1.8x4.5x1, 1 lb. #H46A1103,
unused, $2.95

Well, that's less expensive than the $20c humidistat I have hooked up to an
exhaust fan...

Doug