http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...05/02/21/c1c_B
ermuda_0221.html


To the folks in Florida and the rest of the south east....
Crap.....

You may need to past the link in pieces.

Dave

Dave Fouchey wrote:

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/co...05/02/21/c1c_B
ermuda_0221.html


To the folks in Florida and the rest of the south east....
Crap.....

You may need to past the link in pieces.

Dave

Well, I read the article. Sort of a pain because the linked part jumped
to another page before I had time to paste in the 2nd line tail.
Not very good news in the last several lines of the article. One
possibility for my future is to retire some day and buy a place in
Florida. I really don't think I can hold out a thousand years or more. :-(

Steve

I'm wondering when the US will get smart and stop building stick homes in
hurricane zones and start building with concrete like they do in the
typhoon areas of Japan. Also I have never seen any buildings built as close
to the ocean as we do. Maybe they have some sort of laws preventing it or
their builders are just smarter than ours.

First of all, while there are likely national laws in many countries that
mandate such issues, there is no such case in the U.S. That is left to
local municipalities to manage through their building codes.

Second, Japan has the admirable (IMO) approach that any improvement is worth
investing in, while American culture has been too long been focused on the
"cost-benefit" relationship, or looking at it another way, the
"cost-associated risk" assessment. Unfortunately, in many situations, the
added cost of building a concrete structure is considered to outweigh the
potential risk, and its likelihood of happening. (I guess we're gamblers at
heart, as a society.)

Then there's also the attitude difference related to individual rights
versus the good of society. In Japan, the wellbeing of society as a whole
outweighs the individual. That's why, for example, it's common to see folks
with colds walking around with masks. If that concrete structure is well
built, it is a one-time cost, period. Here, "who in hell are you to tell me
what I can and cannot do" (individual rights ain't all that bad, by itself,
even if ours are being tromped on these days - let's not go there, though.),
but if the tornado tears down my place, you all will pay for it in higher
taxes funneled through FEMA, and in higher insurance rates.

But that cash flow is good for the economy, right???

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"dusty" wrote in message
...


I'm wondering when the US will get smart and stop building stick homes in
hurricane zones and start building with concrete like they do in the
typhoon areas of Japan. Also I have never seen any buildings built as
close
to the ocean as we do. Maybe they have some sort of laws preventing it or
their builders are just smarter than ours.

"Ray" wrote in news:EqOdnavsVu2z_oHfRVn-
:

higher
taxes funneled through FEMA, and in higher insurance rates.


Hummm, just thinking how many more orchids I could buy without the
higher taxes funneled through FEMA, and the higher insurance rates.
Or maybe we all could afford a bigger greenhouse eh?

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:49:59 GMT, dusty wrote:

"Ray" wrote in news:EqOdnavsVu2z_oHfRVn-
:

higher
taxes funneled through FEMA, and in higher insurance rates.


Hummm, just thinking how many more orchids I could buy without the
higher taxes funneled through FEMA, and the higher insurance rates.
Or maybe we all could afford a bigger greenhouse eh?
Or the costs associated with higher strength buildings would be such
you couldn't afford any Orchids. That old Cost Benefit thing rears
it's ugly head again..;-)

This is a debate that will go on as long as people have to make
decisions on allocating finite resources in an infinite set of
choices.

Tarp's I tell ya Tarp's I will be the Tarp Mogul!

Dave

Low bid contracting gets you what you pay for...


Tarp's I tell ya Tarp's I will be the Tarp Mogul!

All Hail the Tarp Mogul! Long may the benevolent despot reign!


--
Rob's Rules: http://www.msu.edu/~halgren
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

LittlefrogFarm - Growing the plants Rob likes. )

Rob Halgren wrote:
Low bid contracting gets you what you pay for...


Tarp's I tell ya Tarp's I will be the Tarp Mogul!


All Hail the Tarp Mogul! Long may the benevolent despot reign!


Didn't you mean "rain"?

--
Reka

This is LIFE! It's not a rehearsal. Don't miss it!
http://www.rolbox.it/hukari/index.html

Dave Fouchey wrote:
On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 11:49:59 GMT, dusty wrote:



Tarp's I tell ya Tarp's I will be the Tarp Mogul!

Dave

There once was a guy named Dave,
Declared as the Tarp Mogul to save.
But with taxes, insurance a to do,
He covered is orchids & plants in blue.

Gotta go, the sun is coming out! Yippee!
Feel free to edit my attempts.
Cheers Wendy

Oooookay, all you curmudgeons!

The page appeared to be gone when I tried to access it just now, but I have
a fair idea of what it might have been all about, given that I live in this
tarp infested area.

First off, we chose a roofing contractor a few days ago, so our tarp will be
gone in a few weeks. Hmmf. We were starting to get used to that blue roof.
I imagine that flying over this area would have given one quite a shocking
assortment of roof damage. But all in all, roof repair is going quite down
well here. It took us longer because we insisted on someone local and
reputable. There was no shortage of "contractors" from Texas, OH, and IL who
wanted to get their thieving mitts on our roof. But, we didn't lose the
roof, after all; we lost shingles, had some water damage in the master bath
and had some minor ceiling stains, which will be painted, not replaced. So
we waited for the good guys. There is other stuff to be done, screens, etc,
but we will do it all in order.

Someone mentioned stick built houses. Only a fool would build one now, but
many years ago all those Florida "cracker" houses were flimsy. There were no
building codes here in the middle of the last century. (Wow! "Last
Century"......) I first lived in Florida in the early 70's in Fort
Lauderdale, and my ex and I built a concrete block house. Down here it's
usually referred to as "CBS": concrete block and stucco. All construction in
this area is CBS, or at least CB with a different facade if someone wants a
wood look, which is unusual. The houses are quite sturdy, and at no time
were we afraid that the house would go down (we stayed through both storms).

Anyone can lose shingles in the kind of storms that we experienced, and
older roofs were of course especially vulnerable. But the worst hit, as
would be expected, were roofs that were already in need of repair, or at
least old beyond their time. Also, older houses here tend to have less pitch
on the roof, and the wind just tore through them. As far as our roof is
concerned, the damage was scattered, but it makes sense to replace the whole
roof. The insurance company agreed with that theory.

And preparation means everything. We moved here from CT in 1999, and in 2000
we purchased storm panels, hoping we would never use them. That is something
that a homeowner can do on his/her own, but we opted to have professionals
do it for us. It cost us a bit more, but that's what we did. And we got good
advice from the company with which we contracted. At the rear of our house
we have a covered patio, and beyond that is the pool, with the patio
continued but with a narrow drain line separating the two sections (you
don't notice the drain). There are two double sliders and one triple that
open onto the patio from the house, and our idea was to get panels to cover
the doors. The contractor wisely pointed out to us that the roof over the
patio was an extension of the roof over the house, and recommended that we
panel in that entire area, sides and all, to prevent wind from getting under
the roof and tearing the whole thing off in case of a bad storm. It did not
cost more than just doing the glass doors. We also opted for a few clear
panels here and there, so we weren't as claustrophobic as we might have been
with all metal.

Some people down here were so used to false alarms that they made few
preparations; many didn't even take the trouble to move things that could
cause damage, didn't board up, didn't stock up on water, didn't, didn't,
didn't, didn't. Many stayed in mobile homes, or those infamous stick builts
or in houses in close proximity to the water. There were alternatives
available to all; no one needed to do that.

Don't get me wrong. It was awful. But so are Nor'easters, CA mudslides, ice
storms, floods, Plains tornados, etc. Having said all that, if we get
warnings of that type again, we will already have located a cat friendly
assortment of places to go and be comfortable. The worst part of all was
being without power and, for long periods, phone and also cell phone
service.

Hey, Dave! Tarps r Us! LOL

Diana

In defense of older So. Fla. homes -- If I didn't need to stay close at hand
for post-storm remediation at the nursery, the house I would choose to
weather a hurricane in would be my grandmother's. Built circa 1940 -- solid
concrete walls, built up to have a "crawl space" underneath to allow flood
water to go under and around rather than into the house, barrel tile roof
.... IMHO, the truly "flimsy" stuff was built mostly during the "boom-time"
of the 1970's, but even the new construction built to post-Andrew codes
doesn't inspire the same trust in me as that house does. I weathered my
first 'cane there, Cleo in '64. A huge mango tree came down on the house --
dented one shutter. Not one single roof tile lost; flooding that lasted for
over a week never threatened the interior ...
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
ink.net...
Oooookay, all you curmudgeons!

The page appeared to be gone when I tried to access it just now, but I
have
a fair idea of what it might have been all about, given that I live in
this
tarp infested area.

First off, we chose a roofing contractor a few days ago, so our tarp will
be
gone in a few weeks. Hmmf. We were starting to get used to that blue roof.
I imagine that flying over this area would have given one quite a shocking
assortment of roof damage. But all in all, roof repair is going quite down
well here. It took us longer because we insisted on someone local and
reputable. There was no shortage of "contractors" from Texas, OH, and IL
who
wanted to get their thieving mitts on our roof. But, we didn't lose the
roof, after all; we lost shingles, had some water damage in the master
bath
and had some minor ceiling stains, which will be painted, not replaced. So
we waited for the good guys. There is other stuff to be done, screens,
etc,
but we will do it all in order.

Someone mentioned stick built houses. Only a fool would build one now, but
many years ago all those Florida "cracker" houses were flimsy. There were
no
building codes here in the middle of the last century. (Wow! "Last
Century"......) I first lived in Florida in the early 70's in Fort
Lauderdale, and my ex and I built a concrete block house. Down here it's
usually referred to as "CBS": concrete block and stucco. All construction
in
this area is CBS, or at least CB with a different facade if someone wants
a
wood look, which is unusual. The houses are quite sturdy, and at no time
were we afraid that the house would go down (we stayed through both
storms).

Anyone can lose shingles in the kind of storms that we experienced, and
older roofs were of course especially vulnerable. But the worst hit, as
would be expected, were roofs that were already in need of repair, or at
least old beyond their time. Also, older houses here tend to have less
pitch
on the roof, and the wind just tore through them. As far as our roof is
concerned, the damage was scattered, but it makes sense to replace the
whole
roof. The insurance company agreed with that theory.

And preparation means everything. We moved here from CT in 1999, and in
2000
we purchased storm panels, hoping we would never use them. That is
something
that a homeowner can do on his/her own, but we opted to have professionals
do it for us. It cost us a bit more, but that's what we did. And we got
good
advice from the company with which we contracted. At the rear of our house
we have a covered patio, and beyond that is the pool, with the patio
continued but with a narrow drain line separating the two sections (you
don't notice the drain). There are two double sliders and one triple that
open onto the patio from the house, and our idea was to get panels to
cover
the doors. The contractor wisely pointed out to us that the roof over the
patio was an extension of the roof over the house, and recommended that we
panel in that entire area, sides and all, to prevent wind from getting
under
the roof and tearing the whole thing off in case of a bad storm. It did
not
cost more than just doing the glass doors. We also opted for a few clear
panels here and there, so we weren't as claustrophobic as we might have
been
with all metal.

Some people down here were so used to false alarms that they made few
preparations; many didn't even take the trouble to move things that could
cause damage, didn't board up, didn't stock up on water, didn't, didn't,
didn't, didn't. Many stayed in mobile homes, or those infamous stick
builts
or in houses in close proximity to the water. There were alternatives
available to all; no one needed to do that.

Don't get me wrong. It was awful. But so are Nor'easters, CA mudslides,
ice
storms, floods, Plains tornados, etc. Having said all that, if we get
warnings of that type again, we will already have located a cat friendly
assortment of places to go and be comfortable. The worst part of all was
being without power and, for long periods, phone and also cell phone
service.

Hey, Dave! Tarps r Us! LOL

Diana

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 23:13:22 GMT, "Diana Kulaga"
wrote:

Oooookay, all you curmudgeons!

The page appeared to be gone when I tried to access it just now, but I have
a fair idea of what it might have been all about, given that I live in this
tarp infested area.


Diana excellent observations. The article was about the Bermuda High
that is firmly ensconced right where it was LAST year as well as the
sea surface temps being comparable and El Nino being weak AGAIN. Same
set up as last season so duck was the advice.

My Aunt and Uncle had a CBS house in Miami that was built well however
when my Uncle, a masonry contractor, built a Garage for his business
he chose to over build using Twin "T's" for Second Floor and Roof,
Heavily reinforced concrete pillars and Window openings, steel storm
shutters and an internal well & Standby Generator, vented with fuel
supply for two weeks. Needless to say it was as storm proof as any
could be. Direct hit from Andrew left ZERO damage to the Garage and
minimal damage to the home. So it IS possible to build for the
storms.

Now where AM I going to store those tarps...AND Blenders!

Dave

Hi, Kenni,

No doubt that there are great old homes that would survive just about
anything, and have done so. Remember what I wrote about the middle of last
century? Think General Development Corp. That's who originally developed
Port St. Lucie, and the original houses are absolute garbage. Some are CBS,
but so poorly constructed that it doesn't matter what materials were used.
Bubble gum to keep the blocks together. Most have flat, or almost flat,
roofs. And these days, they mostly belong to folks who buy them for little
money, and also have little money to make them safer. That is sad, to me.
It's almost always those who have little who lose most.

Then, of course, you have the boom in electronics sales in Miami-Dade and
Broward counties, where there were no hurricane landings. Depends on who
does the interviewing.

Diana

The article was about the Bermuda High
that is firmly ensconced right where it was LAST year as well as the
sea surface temps being comparable and El Nino being weak AGAIN. Same
set up as last season so duck was the advice.

Yes, I've read that elsewhere. We are prepared, and as I wrote earlier, we
will button up the house and go party if we get that kind of warning again.
Still, no one can predict what will happen, despite all their models and
science. So, we hang loose. It will be good to get things back in order,
though. Can't keep things clean right now, at least not to my satisfaction.
Frank thinks I'm nuts, but it bothers me.

Now where AM I going to store those tarps...AND Blenders!

Yowza, blenders! I missed that part! Are we having a hurricane party before
the fact? And save the tarps. After Jeanne, when the need for tarps was
acute, they were lost somewhere in the USA. We were joking about it down
here. Yo, Tarps! Where are the tarps? It helps to have a sense of humor,
y'know. There was a story about a truck on I-95 getting a police escort into
Port St. Lucie. It was carrying bottled water and ice. It was bound for West
Palm Beach. But then, they hijacked some of our stash, too. It was a sight
to behold on US I one day; a convoy of tractor trailers (ice, water, tarps,
MRE's) with a cordon of wailing sirens escorting it into a relief area. That
was the day we scored ice, tarps, and a new cell phone battery and a car
charger for the cell from Radio Shack. Boy, we were the kings of the hill!
We did need ice, though not water, as I'd stocked up. But when you went
through the line they opened up your doors and threw in bags of ice, cases
of water, and a brown box. They waved us on so the line would keep moving.
No chance to say anything. Frank was driving, and he said 'What's in the
box?". It was MRE's. We didn't need that! And though we gave almost all of
them away, Frank did try one, and pronounced it much better than the rations
he got when he was in the Army Airborne. And, getting back to the blender,
he found a packet of some kind of vanilla shake, to which he added ice - and
rum.

Now, if my orchids would just get over the ill effects of those storms, I'd
be a happy lady. We have lost a bunch of Phals, some favorites among them.
Sunburn, the wrong light, etc. But things are starting to bloom again. All
will be well. We got us, Babe!

Diana

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 23:11:36 GMT, "Diana Kulaga"
wrote:


Now where AM I going to store those tarps...AND Blenders!

Yowza, blenders! I missed that part! Are we having a hurricane party before
the fact?

Think of it as a preemptive preparatory strike Donna.

And save the tarps. After Jeanne, when the need for tarps was
acute, they were lost somewhere in the USA. We were joking about it down
here. Yo, Tarps! Where are the tarps? It helps to have a sense of humor,
y'know. There was a story about a truck on I-95 getting a police escort into
Port St. Lucie. It was carrying bottled water and ice. It was bound for West
Palm Beach. But then, they hijacked some of our stash, too. It was a sight
to behold on US I one day; a convoy of tractor trailers (ice, water, tarps,
MRE's) with a cordon of wailing sirens escorting it into a relief area. That
was the day we scored ice, tarps, and a new cell phone battery and a car
charger for the cell from Radio Shack. Boy, we were the kings of the hill!
We did need ice, though not water, as I'd stocked up. But when you went
through the line they opened up your doors and threw in bags of ice, cases
of water, and a brown box. They waved us on so the line would keep moving.
No chance to say anything. Frank was driving, and he said 'What's in the
box?". It was MRE's. We didn't need that! And though we gave almost all of
them away, Frank did try one, and pronounced it much better than the rations
he got when he was in the Army Airborne. And, getting back to the blender,
he found a packet of some kind of vanilla shake, to which he added ice - and
rum.

A Sense of humor is the only thing that helps one through that kind of
event, and the help of good friends.


Now, if my orchids would just get over the ill effects of those storms, I'd
be a happy lady. We have lost a bunch of Phals, some favorites among them.
Sunburn, the wrong light, etc. But things are starting to bloom again. All
will be well. We got us, Babe!

Diana


As much as it pains me to say Orchids are replaceable, You and Frank
are not. So I for one am glad to see you here and in good humor.

As for me, three Generators (Two Small one Large) Over 100 Gallons of
Gas with stabilizer in it, two weeks of water, food, medicine and a
fair bit of cash are already set aside oh and I have several heavy
duty commercial Tarps stashed away as well, along with various tools,
chainsaws heavy line etc. It helps being married to a South Florida
Native when it comes to Hurricane Season prep work!

Now Blizzards are more MY style....

I hope all of us fare better this season than last.

Dave