I notice that nobody thought it odd enough to comment on the fact that there
appear to be only three genders in Latin.
-anus
-ana
-anum

"Al" wrote in message
...
An adjectival commemorative epithet
is a name converted to an adjective by the addition of the suffix "-an"
which must be inflected in accordance with the gender of the generic name
(-anus, -ana, -anum).

Al,

Most romance languages, based on Latin, have male, female, and neuter
genders.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"Al" wrote in message
...
I notice that nobody thought it odd enough to comment on the fact that
there appear to be only three genders in Latin.

And, going back to the discussion we had about Zygo mackayi vs Zygo.
mackaii, the court is still out on the use of the letter 'y' according to
Julian Shaw's email. He is staying with mackayi. The names committee
(IPNI)is meeting in March, so this may come up again.

K

"Al" wrote in message
...
opps... Phrag troiae if named after either the mother or daughter. Phrag
troiarum if named after both women. Phrag troianum if the adjectival case
is used. Although I still don't know why you would chose substantival vs
adjectival and there MUST be a rule guiding that decission.

"Al" wrote in message
...
Okay, so the name is Phrag Troieae not Phrag Troyae. But I've changed
my
mind, and I haven't published yet, (newsgroups don't count, do they?)
and
I want to name this new Phrag species after all the woman in the Troi
clan, even the less pushy ones, so it must be Phrag Troiiarum, or is it?

Eric, Al is a space alien and is remarking on the paucity of genders on this
planet. Use of string theory can correct that, as (probably) has been done
elsewhere in this universe, posibly in the others as well.

K Barrett

"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Al,

Most romance languages, based on Latin, have male, female, and neuter
genders.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"Al" wrote in message
...
I notice that nobody thought it odd enough to comment on the fact that
there appear to be only three genders in Latin.

....paucity of gender in it's species as well as it's languages.

One of the things I was doing here was trying to clarify in my mind the
rules of Latin grammar that would help me identify when a binomial was
spelled correctly. The seemingly odd spelling of Phrag fisheri and others
with only one -i started me searching around. What was it about all those
names with a single -i ending that caused it to be different from all
the -ii endings and how would I know when I was looking at a correctly
written one? The more I read, the more I realized that these grammar rules
were very helpful in teaching me to see what the binomial was telling me
about the plant being named. Commemorative epithets are just scratching the
surface, but are a good starting point. There are lots of little clues in
the suffixes themselves.

That the gender endings of specific names in the binomial are determined by
the
gender of the generic names, and that we are dealing with three
genders and apparently several variations on suffixes seemed important to
point out to any interested parties that did not already know it. I
regularly find myself writing species binomials and the internet is even
more full of errors than my orchid books, so it just seemed important to
familiarize myself with these rules so I could more easily see when I was
looking at an incorrect spelling. Proof reading English text is hard
enough...

-ense, -ensis, -icus, -ica tacked onto the end of the specific name tells
you it comes from whatever place is mentioned in the first part of the word.
For instance Paraphalaenopsis labukense tells you that this species comes
from someplace called Labuk (The bay of Labuk is in Malaysia).

However, if you have noticed -ense and ensis have to be among the most
misspeeeld parts of the Latin binomial you would have to know which gender
ending of this suffix matches the gender of the word Paraphalaenopsis to
know if I am messing with your mind or if I spelled correctly. A quick
search of the internet will only confirm that lots of people are confused
about gender on your planet. It seems, grammatically speaking anyway, two
genders
is one too many.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Eric, Al is a space alien and is remarking on the paucity of genders on
this
planet. Use of string theory can correct that, as (probably) has been
done
elsewhere in this universe, posibly in the others as well.

K Barrett

"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Al,

Most romance languages, based on Latin, have male, female, and neuter
genders.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"Al" wrote in message
...
I notice that nobody thought it odd enough to comment on the fact that
there appear to be only three genders in Latin.

What if Mr. Kovach's wife chose to retain her own name rather than adopting
her husband's name when they got married?

What if Mr. Kovach's mother made the same choice?
--
Kenni Judd (whose husband's name is Mike Baum)
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"Al" wrote in message
...
When naming an orchid in honor of a person or persons there are two kinds
of
commemorative
epithets: substantival and adjectival.

A substantival commemorative epithet is a name in the genitive
(possessive)
case. When translated into a common name the substantival commemorative
epithet Phrag. lindenii looks like this: Linden's Phrag.

The ending of the epithet varies according to the sex and number of the
person(s) being commemorated.

Personal names that end in a consonant (except "y" which is really a
vowel)
can be converted to substantival epithets by the interpolation of -i plus
the genitive ending appropriate to the sex and number of the person(s)
being
commemorated.
-i for a man,
-ae for a woman,
-arum for two or more women,
-orum for two or more men or persons with both sexes represented.

Personal names that end in -er are a curious exception among those ending
in
a consonant because they drop the interpolated -i. This means it is the
*first* -i that is missing; not the final -i in masculine commemoratives.
:-)

Personal names that end in -e, -i, -o, -u, or -y can be converted to
substantival commemorative epithets by the addition of the appropriate
genitive inflection without interpolating an -i.

The quiz Part A: (2.75 points)
You have just discovered a new Phrag species and you want to name it. Use
the Substantival form to create Latin binomials out of the last names of
the following:

1. A gentleman friend whose last name is Fischer.
2. After yourself, if your last name happens to be Kovach.
3. After your wife, if your last name happens to be Kovach.
4. After your mother and father, if your last name happens to be Kovach.
5. The two deceased Klingon sisters, Lursa and Baytor Wilson. (who knew?)
6. Counselor Deanna Troy's mother Loroxanna Troy.
7. Your wife whose name is Besse

An adjectival commemorative epithet
is a name converted to an adjective by the addition of the suffix "-an"
which must be inflected in accordance with the gender of the generic name
(-anus, -ana, -anum). An adjectival commemorative epithet is not affected
by the gender or sex of the person or persons being named. When
translated
into a common name the adjectival commemorative epithet Phrag.
lindenianum
looks like this: Lindenian Phrag. although it is usually translated just
like the substantival epithet Linden's Phrag.

(I could find no rule that told me when to use the substantival or
adjectival case.)

names ending in a consonant, even those that end in -er, require an
interpolated -i preceding the suffix.

names ending in -e, -i, -o, -u, and -y take the suffix without the
interpolated -i.

names that end in -a are special: like other vowels they do not take the
interpolated i, but the suffix is reduced to -nus, -na, or -num.

The quiz Part B: (this part is only worth 1/4 point.)
You have just discovered some new Orchid species and you want to name them
after people from whom you want something... like cash to help offset the
expense of traveling deep into the jungle and lawyer fees to defend
against
the smuggling charge. Use the adjectival form to create Latin binomials
for

1. A Phragmipedium named in honor of somebody with the last name of
Klotzsche
2. A Phragmipedium named after Mrs. Lueddemann, without whose generosity
you
would not be able to afford your daily dose of quinine.
3. A Phalaenopsis named for Mr Lueddemann, so he doesn't get suspicious.
4. An Ancistrochilus after Mr Rothschild, a former friend and confidant
who
told Mr Lueddemann the truth about his wife and you thereby causing Mr.
Lueddemann to cancel your ticket out of Africa...and sadly, leaving you
without your quinine. ;-)

pedantic beyond all tolerance,
Al

P.S. you only need to get Part B number 4 to pass.

Al wrote:
When naming an orchid in honor of a person or persons there are two kinds of
commemorative
epithets: substantival and adjectival.

A substantival commemorative epithet is a name in the genitive (possessive)
case. When translated into a common name the substantival commemorative
epithet Phrag. lindenii looks like this: Linden's Phrag.....................
.................................................. ...................


I have a bad cold and feel like ... well never mind. Just be gentle if
I'm missing something.

What are the rules when a genus is named after a person? Would the genus
named after William Cattley still be called Cattleya if it had been
named after Betty Cattley?

Steve

From
International Code of Botanical Nomenclature
(Saint Louis Code), Electronic version
http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/iapt/no....Luistitle.htm

CHAPTER VII. ORTHOGRAPHY AND GENDER OF NAMES
SECTION 1. ORTHOGRAPHY
Article 60

60B.1. When a new generic name, or subgeneric or sectional epithet, is taken
from
the name of a person, it should be formed as follows:
(a) When the name of the person ends with a vowel, the letter -a is added
(thus Ottoa after Otto; Sloanea after Sloane), except when the name ends
with -a, when -ea is added (e.g. Collaea after Colla), or with -ea (as
Correa), when no letter is added.
(b) When the name of the person ends with a consonant, the letters -ia are
added, but when the name ends with -er, either of the terminations -ia
and -a is appropriate (e.g. Sesleria after Sesler and Kernera after Kerner).
(c) In latinized personal names ending with -us this termination is dropped
(e.g. Dillenia after Dillenius) before applying the procedure described
under (a) and (b).

So the answer is yes, assuming -y is a vowel. ...unless Betty kept her own
name. Or hyphenated it. There are rules about hyphenation but I didn't
look them up.

"Steve" wrote in message
...
I have a bad cold and feel like ... well never mind. Just be gentle if I'm
missing something.

What are the rules when a genus is named after a person? Would the genus
named after William Cattley still be called Cattleya if it had been named
after Betty Cattley?

Steve

A toponym is a scientific name that refers to a location.

-ensis is an adjective suffix for nouns and indicates a country or place of
origin or habitat
m: -ensis
f: -ensis
n: -ense

-icus is an adjective suffix for nouns and translates to mean "belonging to"
, "from", or "of"
m: -icus
f: -ica
n: icum

According to the ICBN, "An epithet derived from a geographical name is
preferably an
adjective and usually takes the termination -ensis, -(a)nus, -inus,
or -icus."

So there are two other suffixes that may indicate place, but I didn't look
them up.

"Al" wrote in message
-ense, -ensis, -icus, -ica tacked onto the end of the specific name tells
you it comes from whatever place is mentioned in the first part of the
word.
For instance Paraphalaenopsis labukense tells you that this species comes
from someplace called Labuk (The bay of Labuk is in Malaysia).

However, if you have noticed -ense and ensis have to be among the most
misspeeeld parts of the Latin binomial you would have to know which gender
ending of this suffix matches the gender of the word Paraphalaenopsis to
know if I am messing with your mind or if I spelled correctly. A quick
search of the internet will only confirm that lots of people are confused
about gender on your planet. It seems, grammatically speaking anyway, two
genders
is one too many.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Eric, Al is a space alien and is remarking on the paucity of genders on
this
planet. Use of string theory can correct that, as (probably) has been
done
elsewhere in this universe, posibly in the others as well.

K Barrett

"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Al,

Most romance languages, based on Latin, have male, female, and neuter
genders.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org

"Al" wrote in message
...
I notice that nobody thought it odd enough to comment on the fact that
there appear to be only three genders in Latin.

I remember when I was under the assumption that Kenni was a man's name. How
many extra points do you want? :-) I'm being free with them. ...and they
are worth about as much.

A patronym is a scientific name created to honor a person. Let's assume Mr
Kovach is okay with his mother and wife's decision to keep their own names.
:-)

I am still searching for a rule governing the choice of substantival and
adjectival commemoratives. I thought I had pinned it down, but could find
no confirmation. One is used to name a plant *for* a person, which assumes
they are still alive. The other is used to name a plant *after* a person,
which assumes the are dead. This is probably wrong, but it's as close as I
can get and my interest/obsession on this topic is starting to take up too
much time. There is flasking to be done....

Here is a nifty link I found to help with translating some of the botanical
latin names:
http://www.cgriffith.net/SearchBases
It deals with plant names in general, but many descriptive binomens (the
second word in the binomial) are used over and over again.


"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
news
What if Mr. Kovach's wife chose to retain her own name rather than
adopting
her husband's name when they got married?

What if Mr. Kovach's mother made the same choice?
--
Kenni Judd (whose husband's name is Mike Baum)
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"Al" wrote in message
...
When naming an orchid in honor of a person or persons there are two kinds
of
commemorative
epithets: substantival and adjectival.

A substantival commemorative epithet is a name in the genitive
(possessive)
case. When translated into a common name the substantival commemorative
epithet Phrag. lindenii looks like this: Linden's Phrag.

The ending of the epithet varies according to the sex and number of the
person(s) being commemorated.

Personal names that end in a consonant (except "y" which is really a
vowel)
can be converted to substantival epithets by the interpolation of -i plus
the genitive ending appropriate to the sex and number of the person(s)
being
commemorated.
-i for a man,
-ae for a woman,
-arum for two or more women,
-orum for two or more men or persons with both sexes represented.

Personal names that end in -er are a curious exception among those ending
in
a consonant because they drop the interpolated -i. This means it is the
*first* -i that is missing; not the final -i in masculine commemoratives.
:-)

Personal names that end in -e, -i, -o, -u, or -y can be converted to
substantival commemorative epithets by the addition of the appropriate
genitive inflection without interpolating an -i.

The quiz Part A: (2.75 points)
You have just discovered a new Phrag species and you want to name it.
Use
the Substantival form to create Latin binomials out of the last names of
the following:

1. A gentleman friend whose last name is Fischer.
2. After yourself, if your last name happens to be Kovach.
3. After your wife, if your last name happens to be Kovach.
4. After your mother and father, if your last name happens to be Kovach.
5. The two deceased Klingon sisters, Lursa and Baytor Wilson. (who
knew?)
6. Counselor Deanna Troy's mother Loroxanna Troy.
7. Your wife whose name is Besse

An adjectival commemorative epithet
is a name converted to an adjective by the addition of the suffix "-an"
which must be inflected in accordance with the gender of the generic name
(-anus, -ana, -anum). An adjectival commemorative epithet is not
affected
by the gender or sex of the person or persons being named. When
translated
into a common name the adjectival commemorative epithet Phrag.
lindenianum
looks like this: Lindenian Phrag. although it is usually translated just
like the substantival epithet Linden's Phrag.

(I could find no rule that told me when to use the substantival or
adjectival case.)

names ending in a consonant, even those that end in -er, require an
interpolated -i preceding the suffix.

names ending in -e, -i, -o, -u, and -y take the suffix without the
interpolated -i.

names that end in -a are special: like other vowels they do not take the
interpolated i, but the suffix is reduced to -nus, -na, or -num.

The quiz Part B: (this part is only worth 1/4 point.)
You have just discovered some new Orchid species and you want to name
them
after people from whom you want something... like cash to help offset the
expense of traveling deep into the jungle and lawyer fees to defend
against
the smuggling charge. Use the adjectival form to create Latin binomials
for

1. A Phragmipedium named in honor of somebody with the last name of
Klotzsche
2. A Phragmipedium named after Mrs. Lueddemann, without whose generosity
you
would not be able to afford your daily dose of quinine.
3. A Phalaenopsis named for Mr Lueddemann, so he doesn't get suspicious.
4. An Ancistrochilus after Mr Rothschild, a former friend and confidant
who
told Mr Lueddemann the truth about his wife and you thereby causing Mr.
Lueddemann to cancel your ticket out of Africa...and sadly, leaving you
without your quinine. ;-)

pedantic beyond all tolerance,
Al

P.S. you only need to get Part B number 4 to pass.

Thank you very much, Al. That's what I wanted to know. Now I must dive
into bed and hope for a better day tomorrow.

Steve


Al wrote:
From
International Code of Botanical Nomenclature
(Saint Louis Code), Electronic version
http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/iapt/no....Luistitle.htm

CHAPTER VII. ORTHOGRAPHY AND GENDER OF NAMES
SECTION 1. ORTHOGRAPHY
Article 60

60B.1. When a new generic name, or subgeneric or sectional epithet, is taken
from
the name of a person, it should be formed as follows:
(a) When the name of the person ends with a vowel, the letter -a is added
(thus Ottoa after Otto; Sloanea after Sloane), except when the name ends
with -a, when -ea is added (e.g. Collaea after Colla), or with -ea (as
Correa), when no letter is added.
(b) When the name of the person ends with a consonant, the letters -ia are
added, but when the name ends with -er, either of the terminations -ia
and -a is appropriate (e.g. Sesleria after Sesler and Kernera after Kerner).
(c) In latinized personal names ending with -us this termination is dropped
(e.g. Dillenia after Dillenius) before applying the procedure described
under (a) and (b).

So the answer is yes, assuming -y is a vowel. ...unless Betty kept her own
name. Or hyphenated it. There are rules about hyphenation but I didn't
look them up.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

I have a bad cold and feel like ... well never mind. Just be gentle if I'm
missing something.

What are the rules when a genus is named after a person? Would the genus
named after William Cattley still be called Cattleya if it had been named
after Betty Cattley?

Steve

Well, you know Julian Shaw really does respond to email questions... even
those from plain old people. His email address is on the RHS site.

K
"Al" wrote in message
...

I am still searching for a rule governing the choice of substantival and
adjectival commemoratives. I thought I had pinned it down, but could find
no confirmation. One is used to name a plant *for* a person, which
assumes
they are still alive. The other is used to name a plant *after* a person,
which assumes the are dead. This is probably wrong, but it's as close as
I
can get and my interest/obsession on this topic is starting to take up too
much time. There is flasking to be done....

Al,

Thanks for the information. Have some new crosses for which I wanted to
use a name that ended in 'A'. " It says e:xcept when the name ends
with -a, when -ea is added (e.g. Collaea after Colla), or with -ea (as
Correa), " Then I decided that if I have to add an 'ea' the name will
sound so awful that I think I will select something else. Yuk! Snobery
or too many rules? Probably the latter.

.. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://home.earthlink.net/~profpam/page3.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve wrote:

Steve wrote:


Thank you very much, Al. That's what I wanted to know. Now I must dive
into bed and hope for a better day tomorrow.

Steve


Al wrote:

From
International Code of Botanical Nomenclature
(Saint Louis Code), Electronic version
http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/iapt/no....Luistitle.htm


CHAPTER VII. ORTHOGRAPHY AND GENDER OF NAMES
SECTION 1. ORTHOGRAPHY
Article 60

60B.1. When a new generic name, or subgeneric or sectional epithet,
is taken from
the name of a person, it should be formed as follows:
(a) When the name of the person ends with a vowel, the letter -a is
added
(thus Ottoa after Otto; Sloanea after Sloane), except when the name ends
with -a, when -ea is added (e.g. Collaea after Colla), or with -ea (as
Correa), when no letter is added.
(b) When the name of the person ends with a consonant, the letters
-ia are
added, but when the name ends with -er, either of the terminations -ia
and -a is appropriate (e.g. Sesleria after Sesler and Kernera after
Kerner).
(c) In latinized personal names ending with -us this termination is
dropped
(e.g. Dillenia after Dillenius) before applying the procedure described
under (a) and (b).

So the answer is yes, assuming -y is a vowel. ...unless Betty kept
her own name. Or hyphenated it. There are rules about hyphenation
but I didn't look them up.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

I have a bad cold and feel like ... well never mind. Just be gentle
if I'm
missing something.

What are the rules when a genus is named after a person? Would the
genus
named after William Cattley still be called Cattleya if it had been
named
after Betty Cattley?

Steve

These rules pertain only to genera and species name creation. they do not
effect man-made hybrid (cross) names. So unless you are publishing the name
of a new species you are good to go without having to add -ea to the name.
In fact one of the rules in naming a man-made hybrid is that you should
avoid latinizing the name. Botanical latin names are reserved only for
naturally occurring species.

"profpam" wrote in message
nk.net...
Al,

Thanks for the information. Have some new crosses for which I wanted to
use a name that ended in 'A'. " It says e:xcept when the name ends
with -a, when -ea is added (e.g. Collaea after Colla), or with -ea (as
Correa), " Then I decided that if I have to add an 'ea' the name will
sound so awful that I think I will select something else. Yuk! Snobery
or too many rules? Probably the latter.

. . . Pam
Everything Orchid Management System
http://home.earthlink.net/~profpam/page3.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve wrote:

Steve wrote:


Thank you very much, Al. That's what I wanted to know. Now I must dive
into bed and hope for a better day tomorrow.

Steve


Al wrote:

From
International Code of Botanical Nomenclature
(Saint Louis Code), Electronic version
http://www.bgbm.fu-berlin.de/iapt/no....Luistitle.htm

CHAPTER VII. ORTHOGRAPHY AND GENDER OF NAMES
SECTION 1. ORTHOGRAPHY
Article 60

60B.1. When a new generic name, or subgeneric or sectional epithet, is
taken from
the name of a person, it should be formed as follows:
(a) When the name of the person ends with a vowel, the letter -a is
added
(thus Ottoa after Otto; Sloanea after Sloane), except when the name ends
with -a, when -ea is added (e.g. Collaea after Colla), or with -ea (as
Correa), when no letter is added.
(b) When the name of the person ends with a consonant, the letters -ia
are
added, but when the name ends with -er, either of the terminations -ia
and -a is appropriate (e.g. Sesleria after Sesler and Kernera after
Kerner).
(c) In latinized personal names ending with -us this termination is
dropped
(e.g. Dillenia after Dillenius) before applying the procedure described
under (a) and (b).

So the answer is yes, assuming -y is a vowel. ...unless Betty kept her
own name. Or hyphenated it. There are rules about hyphenation but I
didn't look them up.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

I have a bad cold and feel like ... well never mind. Just be gentle if
I'm
missing something.

What are the rules when a genus is named after a person? Would the
genus
named after William Cattley still be called Cattleya if it had been
named
after Betty Cattley?

Steve

Hey, Al: If I can't deposit them, no need for extra points G. But, if
Mr. Kovach's mother's last name was Smith, and he named a plant after both
parents, it would be Smithkovachii? Or Kovachsmithii? Or would he be
entitled to decide between the two choices? [Or maybe his wife would choose
the former? G ].

Naming hybrids is much simpler -- if the person is alive, you use his or her
name; if dead, you put Mem. in front of it ... That, my poor tired brain can
keep track of!
--
Kenni Judd
Juno Beach Orchids
http://www.jborchids.com

"Al" wrote in message
...
I remember when I was under the assumption that Kenni was a man's name.
How
many extra points do you want? :-) I'm being free with them. ...and
they
are worth about as much.

A patronym is a scientific name created to honor a person. Let's assume
Mr
Kovach is okay with his mother and wife's decision to keep their own
names.
:-)

I am still searching for a rule governing the choice of substantival and
adjectival commemoratives. I thought I had pinned it down, but could find
no confirmation. One is used to name a plant *for* a person, which
assumes
they are still alive. The other is used to name a plant *after* a person,
which assumes the are dead.