after the polyester batting took a big chunk out of the algae I put regular
filter material in, reticulated foam, screening, etc. and I can now see the
pea gravel on the bottom of the pond. it is amazing how well that bucket
filter works. the ammonia is also back to zero. and I unplugged the heater
and removed plastic off 1/2 the pond and the temp went from 68 down to 52...
yikes. maybe they quit spawning when the temps dropped? the heaters are
back on, the pond is covered for another little while. guess I will have to
wait a bit longer for summer. Ingrid

On Mar 30, 9:21 am, "drsolo" wrote:
after the polyester batting took a big chunk out of the algae I put regular
filter material in, reticulated foam, screening, etc. and I can now see the
pea gravel on the bottom of the pond. it is amazing how well that bucket
filter works. the ammonia is also back to zero. and I unplugged the heater
and removed plastic off 1/2 the pond and the temp went from 68 down to 52...
yikes. maybe they quit spawning when the temps dropped? the heaters are
back on, the pond is covered for another little while. guess I will have to
wait a bit longer for summer. Ingrid

How do you explain that Ingrid? I have always been told/repeated that
no filter will filter algae because they are much too small. Dead
algae (clumping) can be filtered. Or perhaps that is what you are
implying in your typical concise way: dead algae removed=much greater
visibility.
Bill

polyester batting will most definitely take out algae. maybe the last few
days has been too cloudy, to cold now for algae. I dont think that is it
tho. definitely the algae got thicker after the temp of the water heated up
and I gave em food. maybe they have quit spawning?? dont know for sure.

On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:19:51 CST, "drsolo" wrote:

polyester batting will most definitely take out algae.

I agree, so will open cell foam. The reason a filter appears not to remove
it, is that on a nice sunny day, the algae can reproduce faster than most
filters can remove it.

My example is when I used garden soil in two pots that my son had added
steer manure to just the week before. Such bright green water you had to
wear shades, but come nightfall the filter would clear it up. Sun up,
bright green again. The pots came out, some big water changes, and no more
algae creation. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

On Mar 30, 8:11 pm, ~ jan wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:19:51 CST, "drsolo" wrote:
polyester batting will most definitely take out algae.

I agree, so will open cell foam. The reason a filter appears not to remove
it, is that on a nice sunny day, the algae can reproduce faster than most
filters can remove it.

My example is when I used garden soil in two pots that my son had added
steer manure to just the week before. Such bright green water you had to
wear shades, but come nightfall the filter would clear it up. Sun up,
bright green again. The pots came out, some big water changes, and no more
algae creation. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

I will not dispute that batting or even open cell foam removes algae.
But I am interested in the process. As best I can tell most pond
algae is between 15 and 45 microns. So it seems unlikely that per see
either one of these materials is filtering out live algae. Perhaps it
is stopping dead algae which has a tendency to clump. Perhaps
removing the dead algae leaves less nutrients in the water for the
live algae. It also seems beneficial bacterial may have some role in
killing off algae.

So I am not saying these materials don't help/work. I am just curious
why they do, since it seems a diatom filter is actually the only media
small enough to prevent the diameter of the algae from going through
the media.

Just curious
Bill

"humBill" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Mar 30, 8:11 pm, ~ jan wrote:
On Fri, 30 Mar 2007 16:19:51 CST, "drsolo" wrote:
polyester batting will most definitely take out algae.

I agree, so will open cell foam. The reason a filter appears not to
remove
it, is that on a nice sunny day, the algae can reproduce faster than most
filters can remove it.

My example is when I used garden soil in two pots that my son had added
steer manure to just the week before. Such bright green water you had to
wear shades, but come nightfall the filter would clear it up. Sun up,
bright green again. The pots came out, some big water changes, and no
more
algae creation. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

I will not dispute that batting or even open cell foam removes algae.
But I am interested in the process. As best I can tell most pond
algae is between 15 and 45 microns. So it seems unlikely that per see
either one of these materials is filtering out live algae. Perhaps it
is stopping dead algae which has a tendency to clump. Perhaps
removing the dead algae leaves less nutrients in the water for the
live algae. It also seems beneficial bacterial may have some role in
killing off algae.

So I am not saying these materials don't help/work. I am just curious
why they do, since it seems a diatom filter is actually the only media
small enough to prevent the diameter of the algae from going through
the media.

A biological filter works because the bacteria that colonizes in it "eats"
and thrives on the same stuff that "algae bloom" does as the water passes
through it, starving the algae bloom. It doesn't strain the pond water the
way a mechanical filter does. When you add a bacteria supplement, you are
temporarily spiking the level of bacteria in your pond and filter. If your
filter material is dense enough to prevent algae from going through it, it
won't work biologically, only mechanically, and then only till it plugs up.
Your pond water will still be loaded with nutrients to grow the free
floating, suspended algae, and still be cloudy or a swamp
Gale :~)

I think of polyester batting more like when you stand up in a dirty bath and
the grime adheres to wet skin. INgrid

removing biologicals from the pond decreases the nutrient load. filtering
algae wont work like with UV unless there is some way to physically remove
the stuff before it breaks down and the nutrients end up back in the pond.

a caution. bacteria like ridX are usually of the anaerobic kind, that is
they crank out some quite toxic compounds in teh process of breaking
organics down. really good aeration and flow of water thru the pond can
keep mulm to a minimum. this is now my 7th year of the pond and I can still
see the folds on the bottom of my pond (also the pea gravel they sucked out
of the lily pots). the mulm from my pond ends up in the veggie filter where
I clean it out once a year in fall.

I also think the mulm problem has declined since I started feeding really
high quality koi food. Ingrid

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 10:11:04 CST, "drsolo" wrote:

I think of polyester batting more like when you stand up in a dirty bath and
the grime adheres to wet skin. INgrid

Ewww.... When we used old aquarium filters that require it, it worked
better as it got dirty, as the spaces got smaller and smaller. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 10:11:15 CST, "drsolo" wrote:

a caution. bacteria like ridX are usually of the anaerobic kind, that is
they crank out some quite toxic compounds in teh process of breaking
organics down. really good aeration and flow of water thru the pond can
keep mulm to a minimum. this is now my 7th year of the pond and I can still
see the folds on the bottom of my pond (also the pea gravel they sucked out
of the lily pots). the mulm from my pond ends up in the veggie filter where
I clean it out once a year in fall.

Yes, I knew there was a caution about RidX, but couldn't pull it from
memory at the time. In our aerobic environments it shouldn't work, and if
it does, one doesn't have enough air in their pond.

I also think the mulm problem has declined since I started feeding really
high quality koi food. Ingrid

Agreed, and I also think it helps that as koi get bigger they help push mum
towards bottom drains and/or pumps in the pond. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

a caution. bacteria like ridX are usually of the anaerobic kind, that is
they crank out some quite toxic compounds in teh process of breaking
organics down. really good aeration and flow of water thru the pond can
keep mulm to a minimum. this is now my 7th year of the pond and I can
still
see the folds on the bottom of my pond (also the pea gravel they sucked
out
of the lily pots). the mulm from my pond ends up in the veggie filter
where
I clean it out once a year in fall.

Yes, I knew there was a caution about RidX, but couldn't pull it from
memory at the time. In our aerobic environments it shouldn't work, and if
it does, one doesn't have enough air in their pond.

I also think the mulm problem has declined since I started feeding really
high quality koi food. Ingrid

Agreed, and I also think it helps that as koi get bigger they help push
mum
towards bottom drains and/or pumps in the pond. ~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

My bro-in-law used a similar product in his pond and maybe he still does -
it was formulated for sewage lagoons and had enzymes in it that were related
to cancer causing ingredients (for lack of a better word) - it had big ,
bold print "do not use in bodies of water containing fish or coming into
human contact" . When he used it, it turned his pond a rusty red colour that
lasted a few days and stripped ALL the algae from his pond - nothing but
rock and bare liner was left after a week or so and no mulm either. He paid
$45 for a 5 liter jug and used 2 cups in 2000 gal pond . I don't think I'd
use the stuff, seemed a little scary what it could do so fast.
Gale :~)

On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:12:54 CST, "G Pearce"
wrote:

My bro-in-law used a similar product in his pond and maybe he still does -
it was formulated for sewage lagoons and had enzymes in it that were related
to cancer causing ingredients (for lack of a better word) - it had big ,
bold print "do not use in bodies of water containing fish or coming into
human contact" . When he used it, it turned his pond a rusty red colour that
lasted a few days and stripped ALL the algae from his pond - nothing but
rock and bare liner was left after a week or so and no mulm either. He paid
$45 for a 5 liter jug and used 2 cups in 2000 gal pond . I don't think I'd
use the stuff, seemed a little scary what it could do so fast.
Gale :~)

Didn't that miss up his biological filter?

When they sprayed Roundup too close to the D.pond last year, they killed
all the fuzz algae, and we had a nice algae bloom for a week. The pond
committee was not happy, but we used it as a learning/training experience.
~ jan
------------
Zone 7a, SE Washington State

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 1 Apr 2007 13:12:54 CST, "G Pearce"
wrote:

My bro-in-law used a similar product in his pond and maybe he still does -
it was formulated for sewage lagoons and had enzymes in it that were
related
to cancer causing ingredients (for lack of a better word) - it had big ,
bold print "do not use in bodies of water containing fish or coming into
human contact" . When he used it, it turned his pond a rusty red colour
that
lasted a few days and stripped ALL the algae from his pond - nothing but
rock and bare liner was left after a week or so and no mulm either. He
paid
$45 for a 5 liter jug and used 2 cups in 2000 gal pond . I don't think I'd
use the stuff, seemed a little scary what it could do so fast.
Gale :~)

Didn't that miss up his biological filter?
If by mess up you mean kill the biological action, no. That is what this
stuff is supposed to do, boost the bio action with bacteria and enzymes - it
was enzyme part that worried me and the warning about not using it in a body
of water for fish (I presumed they were concerned about fish that could be
eaten by us) or any water you or I may come into contact with until diluted
by a river or lake
Gale :~)
PS - it also stated on the jug "For industrial application only"

I was going to ask as well...what else died with the algae? Plants?
fish?

Jim

"Phyllis and Jim" wrote in message
oups.com...
I was going to ask as well...what else died with the algae? Plants?
fish?
Hi Jim - No - at least not right away. Plants and fish seemed fine - I saw
the pond a couple of weeks after he dosed it. He hasn't mentioned the stuff
since and I don't see him as often as I used to. He's the type of guy that
tells you about his successes, but doesn't say anything if it doesn't work
Gale :~)