Im totally new to ponds and need some advice

I have a pond of 1mx2mx.75m and need a filter system

I understand the need for UVC etc but I am on a tight budget. What pump/filter do people recommend?? I do want a couple of small fish but no more.

I dont want a fountain and dont have a water fall but could easily add one

Any advice to a newby pond owner would be great

"landymanash" wrote in message
...

Im totally new to ponds and need some advice

I have a pond of 1mx2mx.75m and need a filter system

I use a Pondmaster pond and have been quite
happy with its performance. See here for
some information:
http://www.bestfish.com/pondpump.html
I like the mag drives because they're simple,
easy to clean, last a long time, and I have no
complaints about electricity use.

I understand the need for UVC etc but I am on a tight budget.

I have three small ponds; none has a UVC. I
have a great deal of plants and low stocking,
and don't overfeed. The goldfish pond has a
filter w/ fountain (it's a kit, all in one); the other
two ponds only have minnows and have
no filtering. I did recently add solar oxygenation
to the other two ponds due to high daily
temperatures, but they probably don't really
need it.

What
pump/filter do people recommend?? I do want a couple of small fish but
no more.

I use a homemade filter based on a design
by someone on the newsgroup. Basically I
use a plastic letter crate, cut untreated furnace
filter to size (bottom, sides, top), add some
other filter material (whatever works), put
the pump in, plug it in. Submersible, of course.

From surfing the 'net, I've found a lot of water
garden sources in the UK. You might search
them out to find out what kinds of pumps are
available where you are.

I dont want a fountain and dont have a water fall but could easily add
one

A fountain is useful and doesn't add much cost.

Any advice to a newby pond owner would be great


--
landymanash

Gail
near San Antonio TX USA

"~Roy" aka Koi-Lo wrote in message
...


Its b****ing asholes like you that keep the noise level going. Your
the first ****ing moron to snap today......you poor pityful
looser......

"landymanash" wrote in message
...

Im totally new to ponds and need some advice

I have a pond of 1mx2mx.75m and need a filter system

I understand the need for UVC etc but I am on a tight budget. What
pump/filter do people recommend?? I do want a couple of small fish but
no more.

I dont want a fountain and dont have a water fall but could easily add
one

Any advice to a newby pond owner would be great


--
landymanash

Oh thanks Gail, thats certainly helpful, had a few people direct me to some really good sites and I have found alot on info on this site

Many thanks again

"landymanash" wrote in message
...

Oh thanks Gail, thats certainly helpful, had a few people direct me to
some really good sites and I have found alot on info on this site

Many thanks again


--
landymanash

Good luck with your pond.

Gail

landymanash wrote:


Im totally new to ponds and need some advice

I have a pond of 1mx2mx.75m and need a filter system

I understand the need for UVC etc but I am on a tight budget. What

There is no such thing as a "need" for UV. Some people like it, but it does
nothing for the _health_ of the pond, so on a tight budget, skip it.
(actually, I'd never consider it even with an unlimited budget, but I
recognize that as personal preference).

pump/filter do people recommend?? I do want a couple of small fish but
no more.

With a "couple" of (small) fish in that size pond, you don't even need a
pump or filter. Keeping it to just a couple, might be a problem :-)
--
derek

I have a pond of 1mx2mx.75m and need a filter system

There are a number of fake flower pot filters pictured on my website. Click
on *My Filter* (website below) and scroll to the bottom to see them. This
gets the filter out of the pond, thus easier maintenance. One puts the pump
in the pond in 2 mesh boxes like this:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/koipond/photos/set1/09.jpg To keep it
maintenance free (no filter material in the baskets, just the pump). ~ jan
--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Totally amazing yet again, Derek and I agree on yet another
item...that UV is not needed....wow, can you imagine that....Whats
that like 3 or 4 things in the last month now?



On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 10:35:45 -0300, Derek Broughton
wrote:
landymanash wrote:


Im totally new to ponds and need some advice

I have a pond of 1mx2mx.75m and need a filter system

I understand the need for UVC etc but I am on a tight budget. What

There is no such thing as a "need" for UV. Some people like it, but it does
nothing for the _health_ of the pond, so on a tight budget, skip it.
(actually, I'd never consider it even with an unlimited budget, but I
recognize that as personal preference).

pump/filter do people recommend?? I do want a couple of small fish but
no more.

With a "couple" of (small) fish in that size pond, you don't even need a
pump or filter. Keeping it to just a couple, might be a problem :-)

Is it easier (less HP, less money and electric, less priming) for a pump to
push rather than pull water? I plan on a 3' waterfall about 30' from the
pond flowing in a stream, dropping another foot, to the pond. Should I put
a submersible pump in the bottom of the pond and push water to the waterfall
or put it above ground at the waterfall end and pull water? I'm assuming I
will have my filters at the waterfall end.

Any advise or sites? Approx what HP and gph will I need to shop for?
Thanks

Chip



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

Wellwith pushing water it degrades performance big time. Water weighs
a lot, so every inch of water you push ahead and up from the pump is
pulling down the pumps performance.

Pulling water now, especially if theline that is feeding thepump is
low enough that it fills with water naturally from the poind to the
point the water is being raised up from is gong to e the best route,
and other than a slight amount of pipe frictional losses will work
better.

Water falls in general need more flow than most typical pond pumps
commonly found in big box stores provide. There is a fomula for every
inch of height and every inch of width of the water fall to follow.
Check out AZPonds.com as they carry just about all of the major
players in the pump field, and also usually have cheapestprices and
free shipping as well.

One pump that would work fine for a water fall is the Cyprio Tital
pump. Priced very reasonable as well..... but its a submersible pump
and any water would be pushed.......If your interested in a external
pump the Sequence line of pumps is very hartd to beat, and they are
also very economical to run.......I have 8 Sequences in operation
24/7/365 now for over 4 years without so much of even a small problem
with any of them. Their value line of pumps is a good deal but the
best is the 750 or 1000 model lineup or their primer series, which is
a serious water mover............

http://www.azponds.com/


On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:59:16 -0700, "chip" wrote:
Is it easier (less HP, less money and electric, less priming) for a pump to
push rather than pull water? I plan on a 3' waterfall about 30' from the
pond flowing in a stream, dropping another foot, to the pond. Should I put
a submersible pump in the bottom of the pond and push water to the waterfall
or put it above ground at the waterfall end and pull water? I'm assuming I
will have my filters at the waterfall end.

Any advise or sites? Approx what HP and gph will I need to shop for?
Thanks

Chip

Is it easier (less HP, less money and electric, less priming) for a pump to
push rather than pull water? I plan on a 3' waterfall about 30' from the
pond flowing in a stream, dropping another foot, to the pond. Should I put
a submersible pump in the bottom of the pond and push water to the waterfall
or put it above ground at the waterfall end and pull water? I'm assuming I
will have my filters at the waterfall end.

Any advise or sites? Approx what HP and gph will I need to shop for?
Thanks
Chip

Hi Chip, Check out my website. Don't put the pump in the pond. Use gravity
from the pond to the filter, then up to the water fall. ~ jan
--------------
See my ponds and filter design:
www.jjspond.us

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

On Thu, 8 Jun 2006 09:59:16 -0700, "chip" wrote:

Is it easier (less HP, less money and electric, less priming) for a pump to
push rather than pull water? I plan on a 3' waterfall about 30' from the
pond flowing in a stream, dropping another foot, to the pond. Should I put
a submersible pump in the bottom of the pond and push water to the waterfall
or put it above ground at the waterfall end and pull water? I'm assuming I
will have my filters at the waterfall end.

Any advise or sites? Approx what HP and gph will I need to shop for?
Thanks

Chip

Wow!! A lot of misinformation here!!!

A given pump will be just as efficient if it is pulling water up from
a pond or pushing the water. A pump in a pond will always be self
priming, if it is above the water level it may require a check valve
in the suction line, or may be able to prime itself, depending on
design. Installing a pump outside the pond, but below the level of
the water may not be practical in some cases.

The big variable is the pump itself. Also every elbow in the plumbing
impedes the flow of water and thus reduces efficiency.

A rule of thumb is the GPH rating of the pump should be twice the
capacity of the pond. I'm not going to get into a discussion of which
brand of pump is better, except to point out that the cheapest and
the most expensive are usually not worth the money.

PlainBill

PlainBill wrote:

Wow!! A lot of misinformation here!!!

A given pump will be just as efficient if it is pulling water up from
a pond or pushing the water.

No, I'm just not buying that. Look at the edge case - if I have a
sufficiently powerful pump in the pond, I can push water up to any
conceivable height. If I have a pump outside the pond, at the top of a
waterfall pulling the water, it is impossible to pump more than
approximately 32 feet - with _any_ pump. So it seems pretty evident that
any pump placed _above_ the water surface is going to be less efficient
than one below the water level (though not necessarily _in_ the pond).

A rule of thumb is the GPH rating of the pump should be twice the
capacity of the pond.

Odd rule of thumb. Another rule of thumb is 4 changeovers per hour, but it
all depends on the size of the pond. I'd want at least that rate for
anything under 500 gallons. I'd drop it to as little as half a turnover
for something in the 5000 gallon range.
--
derek

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:21:17 -0300, Derek Broughton
wrote:

PlainBill wrote:

Wow!! A lot of misinformation here!!!

A given pump will be just as efficient if it is pulling water up from
a pond or pushing the water.

No, I'm just not buying that. Look at the edge case - if I have a
sufficiently powerful pump in the pond, I can push water up to any
conceivable height. If I have a pump outside the pond, at the top of a
waterfall pulling the water, it is impossible to pump more than
approximately 32 feet - with _any_ pump. So it seems pretty evident that
any pump placed _above_ the water surface is going to be less efficient
than one below the water level (though not necessarily _in_ the pond).

You're confusing a law of physics with efficiency. A suction pump
cannot lift water more than 32 feet because atmospheric pressure is
14.7 psi. Even that is not strictly true - the motor and impeller of
a jet pump can be more than 32 feet above the surface of the water,
and will work fine provided the jet itself is less that 32 feet above
the water. But that is a special case, and it will show very poor
efficiency compared to a pump close to the surface of the water.

Use this analogy: You have a heavy object, suspended by a rope. The
rope is pulled by a motor. Which is more efficient - mounting the
motor above the load, or mounting the motor on the floor and running
the rope over a large pulley? In the first case, the motor is pulling
up, in the second case, it is pulling down. Neglecting the friction
of the pulley (which will be trivial if ball berrings are used), the
force required is the same.

As I said before, for a given pump, the efficiency is the same pushing
or pulling. One complication is if the pump is more than roughly 5
feet above the surface of the water it may not be self priming, and a
check valve would be required - which impeds the flow of water.

The BIG variable is the pump itself. Then laying out the plumbing
with as few turns as possible.

PlainBill

A rule of thumb is the GPH rating of the pump should be twice the
capacity of the pond.

Odd rule of thumb. Another rule of thumb is 4 changeovers per hour, but it
all depends on the size of the pond. I'd want at least that rate for
anything under 500 gallons. I'd drop it to as little as half a turnover
for something in the 5000 gallon range.

On Tue, 13 Jun 2006 11:21:17 -0300, Derek Broughton
wrote:

PlainBill wrote:

Wow!! A lot of misinformation here!!!

A given pump will be just as efficient if it is pulling water up from
a pond or pushing the water.

No, I'm just not buying that. Look at the edge case - if I have a
sufficiently powerful pump in the pond, I can push water up to any
conceivable height.

So define a sufficiently powerful pump please.

If I have a pump outside the pond, at the top of a
waterfall pulling the water, it is impossible to pump more than
approximately 32 feet - with _any_ pump.

Yo are so wrong on that assumption


So it seems pretty evident that
any pump placed _above_ the water surface is going to be less efficient
than one below the water level (though not necessarily _in_ the pond).
Just as I stated previously, your so wrong on that account.

A rule of thumb is the GPH rating of the pump should be twice the
capacity of the pond.
Whose rule of thumb is that.....

Odd rule of thumb. Another rule of thumb is 4 changeovers per hour, but it
all depends on the size of the pond.
Yet agaian whose rule of thumb....depends a lot on zone.

I'd want at least that rate for
anything under 500 gallons. I'd drop it to as little as half a turnover
for something in the 5000 gallon range.
A lot has to do with zone and sun exposure and a lot of other items
so much for that rule of YOUR thumb.It sucks if yo ask me,


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com