Dream on bimbo dream on

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:20:44 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"~ jan" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 13:34:14 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

Jen, like Tara who came under fire in RAFM are not socks. That group is
another that will need moderation to survive.

Was this group having a problem before...

Not before Roy "Tristan" Hauer invaded there. When he refused to leave most
of the others fled to a private moderated group.

.? If not, logically speaking
seems the fix is obvious. ~ jan

Yep, get rid of Roy.........



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

And CArol is still the catalyst

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 19:04:57 GMT, ~ jan
wrote:

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:51:13 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

Like Jan said, everyone participated in the downfall of this group. Had
everyone stood together it would never have gone this far.

You know, if you don't want to get jab, put down your own sticks. When I
said "you ALL" I meant 3 people, Carol, Jabbers & Roy. The last 2 having
been easy to ignore, they were always over the top, a killfilter took care
of them.

Carol over the years many of us have tried to befriend you, I've done it
over and over just to get burned. Just like the above, don't put words in
my mouth that I was talking about Cat Daddy... who I haven't seen here in
years. ~ jan



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Poor poor carol the usenet whore that does not do any wrong. After all
its all about carol just carol and nothing but carol......Carol sure
does have quite a short memory and a vivid imagination....too bad she
does not have a life........or friends outside hger circle of socks

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:10:09 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"~ jan" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 00:51:13 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

Like Jan said, everyone participated in the downfall of this group. Had
everyone stood together it would never have gone this far.

You know, if you don't want to get jab, put down your own sticks.

Did you not say that? That was a statement of fact. The whole downfall of
this group was carefully choreographed by ONE troll - ONE TROLL! He came
here, divided the group, found a partner, and just like he said it would
do - he destroyed the group. He had and still has all of you like puppets
on a string and he's the puppetmaster. He loves the power you all gave him.
Every criticism, every rude remark made here.... fed him, encouraged him and
he pulled your strings and you all danced to his tune. Some of you even
jumping on his "trolling" bandwagon as I said before. He's a master
manipulator and he's still doing it. He'll continue to do it until everyone
leaves here for the mod group. I know him for 11 years and have seen how he
operates.

When I
said "you ALL" I meant 3 people, Carol, Jabbers & Roy. The last 2 having
been easy to ignore, they were always over the top, a killfilter took care
of them.

I am not responsible for the abominable actions of others. There were
several others here Jan who joined right in on the party and you who who
they are.

Carol over the years many of us have tried to befriend you, I've done it
over and over just to get burned.

Jan, I don't ever recall emailing you or even sharing many threads with you
before the troll invasion so I don't understand the befriending/burning
thing. The only time you befriended me was to encourage me to try and hide
from the trolls, and join a Forum. I patiently explained to you that I
couldn't change my nym again because that's what they were waiting for so
they could complain to my NSP i.e netkkop me. They cost me one NSP and you
BOTH knew that. So changing my nym was out. And to come back as some other
person from some other place with some other ponds or fish was absurd! It
would take no more than 2 or 3 messages for trolls with a "mission" to know
exactly who was posting. When you were convinced I was not going to play
charades you dropped the "friendship" like a hot rock. Friends don't do
that to friends because friends wont do what you think they should do. I
didn't BURN you - you were suddenly gone. I would have lost another NSP,
they would have danced for joy and flooded the group in paroxysms of ecstasy
and nothing would have been accomplished. When you and Gill were convinced
I was not going to play that game you both vanished from my email box so to
speak. It appeared you were both suddenly going to try the "shunning"
technique. We all know that doesn't work. So suddenly, plan #3, everything
I posted came under scrutiny and everything was questioned and nit picked to
death. When it became annoying I wasn't supposed to DARE show I was
starting to feel harassed by this nit-picking. Who wouldn't feel harassedby
it? That was never done before here...so yes, I did indeed feel stabbed in
the back because this is yet another technique (nit-pick the person to
death) to force someone into compliance or silence them. Meanwhile the
trolls were having a field day pulling strings and watching all the
dancing.........

Just like the above, don't put words in
my mouth that I was talking about Cat Daddy... who I haven't seen here in
years. ~ jan

I didn't say you were talking about cat daddy, nor did I put words in your
mouth. I'm sorry if it appeared that way. Cat daddy was smart enough to
leave me alone *here* for the most part, and "stick it to me" and troll me
in AFN, both feeding and encouraging the trolls who were fully aware of what
he was doing. I asked him to killfile me as I did Snooze, who started all
the nym-shifting-impersonations by telling them to use my myns. Both
refused to killfile me and the bandwagon took on a few more "pack
attackers".... the trolls pulled the strings, they enjoyed every minute of
it - and the puppets danced the group straight into oblivion.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

cat daddy wrote:


As do I. The best part about the group was people sharing their
innovations and creative solutions and inspiring the newbies and regulars
alike.

Well let's hope that it will be again.....the other thing that would be
great is an environment where if someone has a different experience they
won't get shot down in flames for suggesting what works for them.....but
if they suggest this in an inflammatory manner then it is a different
matter....it is a great shame that people cannot see the difference
between discussion and personal attacks.....on a moderated group it has
to be said, that the fire will be taken out of the posts....it might not
get quite as lively but certainly will promote civil discussions and
exchanges of ideas....



Much the same here with the eternal planning. Up until recently, my
mother's pond (which is 50 miles away) required whatever attention I could
give, so that served to fill any ponding urges. I vacillate between making
the huge commitment build a pond complete as I've envisioned, or build in
stages, which as noted here repeatedly, would be less than satisfying once a
stage is complete.

Oh, the planning is most definitely fun.....I can spend countless hours
mulling over information and trying to make the best decision....this
doesn't just apply to ponds or fish tanks but other things as
well....savour the pleasure while you can is my motto....of course, the
implementation, and be able to say "I love it when a plan comes
together" (as per the A-Team, which of course I have never, ever,
watched in my life) has it's pay offs as well....sadly with me it is
also a precurser to yet another plan....IIRC don't you have tanks as
well? - might be wrong but I seem to remember seeing you giving advice
on the aquatic groups although it might have been Snooze....



Changing circumstances, both with my time (I volunteer to make
improvements at a local park) and available cash always delays that
commitment. I do have a hole in the backyard, where I excavate dirt needed
elsewhere, but I ultimately need to rent a machine to complete that work.

I can appreciate that one.....my pond went because I had a little one
and it just wasn't really safe enough....as she grows up the
circumstances change again.....Unfortunately, we do not have a passage
way large enough to get a decent digger down the side of the house....so
, just like with the original pond, it is going to be me with a
spade....hubby might help, but doesn't have the same motivation as
me....he'll help set up a tank quickly enough - building cabinets,
plumbing etc. but kind of draws the line at digging holes.....but that
is fine by me....afterall, you sure burn off a lot of calories digging - lol



I also live on a lake, have a resident Great Blue Heron, other water
birds and raccoons, and a Labrador, so the design has to take into account
those issues. I do have a view of water, so there's no urgency to provide my
own. And, with drought and water woes here, my interest lately has been in
the ecological and biofiltration aspects of watergardening and how it might
incorporate water conservation.

Partly I would find having a lake a bit of distraction in my
plans......why attempt to create something artificial when you have
nature sitting on your doorstep? Do you own the lake is it just
something bordering your property? Watching the wildlife and nature at
work is what I would be attempting to create artificially having no
interest in commercially breeding fish.....

I, for one, would be quite fascinated, in your thoughts on ecological
matters and bio-filtration.....water conservation is also a real big
issue over here in the UK...Of course, I would totally understand if you
do not wish to discuss these things on rec.ponds at the moment in view
of the games going on, so perhaps you might drop me an email - address
is pretty easy to decipher and yes, it is valid....

Gill




Well, that's enough for now......

"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
cat daddy wrote:


As do I. The best part about the group was people sharing their
innovations and creative solutions and inspiring the newbies and regulars
alike.

Well let's hope that it will be again.....the other thing that would be
great is an environment where if someone has a different experience they
won't get shot down in flames for suggesting what works for them.....but
if they suggest this in an inflammatory manner then it is a different
matter....it is a great shame that people cannot see the difference
between discussion and personal attacks.....on a moderated group it has to
be said, that the fire will be taken out of the posts....it might not get
quite as lively but certainly will promote civil discussions and exchanges
of ideas....
================
If the disagreements remain RESPECTFUL there should be no problems. It was
the lack of respect for those who were disagreed with that caused so much
flaming and hard feelings over the years here. Being called an a$$hole (and
worse) simply because you have a different viewpoint is absurd and
guaranteed to either flare tempers or drive people away. Either way the
group loses.
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:10:09 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

I am not responsible for the abominable actions of others.

But you're responsible or your part, which was at the beginning not
ignoring them and taking their bait. Now you do this tit for tat thing.

As far as other joining in, we kept requesting you ignore them. First
nicely and then some got nasty in frustration.

Jan, I don't ever recall

Easy defense.

Snip rest and didn't read. Don't have time, have roses to prune.

Gorgeous sunny day, 63F in the shade currently. Maybe the groundhog was
right, at least for the west coast. ;-) ~ jan

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:20:44 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

Jen, like Tara who came under fire in RAFM are not socks. That group is
another that will need moderation to survive.

Was this group having a problem before...

Not before Roy "Tristan" Hauer invaded there. When he refused to leave most
of the others fled to a private moderated group.

.? If not, logically speaking
seems the fix is obvious. ~ jan

Yep, get rid of Roy.........

Well there's 2 sides to a pancake, I'll guess we'll have to see what Roy
has to say. ~ jan

Zëbulon wrote:

================
If the disagreements remain RESPECTFUL there should be no problems. It
was the lack of respect for those who were disagreed with that caused so
much flaming and hard feelings over the years here. Being called an
a$$hole (and worse) simply because you have a different viewpoint is
absurd and guaranteed to either flare tempers or drive people away.
Either way the group loses.

Whatever has happened has happened.....however, this is an on-topic
discussion between two people - granted I hijacked the thread to
actually talk about ponds and that may very well be deemed off-topic by
some at the moment...but in the words of my teenage sons
"whatever"...so, unless you have something constructive to add to a
discussion about ponds between two people - go hijack your own thread
and leave this one to those of us that want to have a gentle on-topic
pond chat

Gill

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:20:44 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

Jen, like Tara who came under fire in RAFM are not socks. That group is
another that will need moderation to survive.

Was this group having a problem before...

Not before Roy "Tristan" Hauer invaded there. When he refused to leave
most
of the others fled to a private moderated group.

.? If not, logically speaking
seems the fix is obvious. ~ jan

Yep, get rid of Roy.........

Well there's 2 sides to a pancake, I'll guess we'll have to see what Roy
has to say. ~ jan
======================
I'm sure it'll be some sleazy personal attack. It almost always is. ;-)
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:10:09 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

I am not responsible for the abominable actions of others.

But you're responsible or your part, which was at the beginning not
ignoring them and taking their bait.

Ignoring them at first would have worked had everyone co-operated which they
did not. As soon as a few regulars here, left unnamed since you know who
they are, jumped right in - it was too late. The trolls knew they had
"support" from some of you and that made all the difference in the world.
Where they got no support they gave up. Do you see them staking me in the
other groups now? Nope! Only where they have "support" of at least one
regular.

Now you do this tit for tat thing.

As far as other joining in, we kept requesting you ignore them. First
nicely and then some got nasty in frustration.

Jan.... remember back when Antonio decided to "punish" the group - when the
invasion began. At that time we had decided to change to an unlimited ISP.
HOTN was limited. During that turmoil I was being told by someone here
(left unnamed) to give in to the the blackmail, even when Antonio himself
brought his family problems to Usenet. Never happen. Several "regs" from
here immediately contacted my ISP before I even decided which ISP we were
going to switch to - then went ballistic because I changed my NYM when I
changed ISPs. Others were putting in their two cents. I remember that so
well. Jabbers was going haywire at that point and the others jumped right
on the bandwagon. He was right there manipulating everyone. When I didn't
reply to him he used my nym to reply to himself and people got ****ed at me
thinking I was replying. When I told you to check the headers I got a real
nasty reply that you shouldn't have to. I know Gill was aware of this
because she pointed it out to me. You'd think changing an ISP and NYM was
some kind of crime beyond description. I remember telling you guys to be
patient as we were changing services at the time and may change my NYM yet
again. No one cared... they kept right on with their "pack attack." By
then Antonio was cross-posting other trolls in from other groups... all the
while with the encouragement of those regs who kept up the criticisms and
the b*tching at me. Anyone who said anything in my defence was viciously
attacked by Roy. Anything I sad was viciously attacked. And jabbers stood
back pulling all the strings. It all went as he planned. The second ISP
was the pits so we went with a third. Again the same reg's started
harassing me for changing my NYM/addy again as though I was committing some
horrid crime. Of course once Snooze had them using my nym that's when it
really got bad.... flooding, assorted kooks from the kook groups.... had
everyone stood together at the time Jabbers wouldn't have stood a chance
just like on AFN. He beat his keyboard into a black void and finally he and
his sycophant left that group.


Jan, I don't ever recall

Easy defense.

What did you snip?

Snip rest and didn't read. Don't have time, have roses to prune.

But you had the time to nit-pick the fish issue to death...... interesting.

--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*

Ahhhhhhhh, poor poor carol the queen of sleaze.....whats a mattewr you
run out of victims to defend., Yoour a sick puppy carol on e sick
puppy, after all its all about carol. Trust me, I'll be here and in
more folks gaces than you will long down the road from now......The
newbies all see through you like newly cleaned glass.........your so
naieve in thinking yur hiding this or thiding that, your just a fool,
yea its all about the fool named Carol...........Here that song
playing in the back ground.....its your theme song Fools Rush in
You dumbass carpet bagger..

Jan
I agree with Cat Daddy...Jen is from AU, and just sort of got
sidelined into a mess created by the Queen Bee.....

Roy Traiostaan Hauer does not invade anywhere. I was even against
invading Iraq, however I dothink mental illness has invaded CArol s
head.........Hmm. back to my interesting bit of info and accounts that
I wa emailed. Don;t worry folks, we all know who it is, so all I have
to do is blank out the actual names and its wil be posted for public
scrutiny or make that entertainment.







On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:16:48 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"~ jan" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 14:20:44 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

Jen, like Tara who came under fire in RAFM are not socks. That group is
another that will need moderation to survive.

Was this group having a problem before...

Not before Roy "Tristan" Hauer invaded there. When he refused to leave
most
of the others fled to a private moderated group.

.? If not, logically speaking
seems the fix is obvious. ~ jan

Yep, get rid of Roy.........

Well there's 2 sides to a pancake, I'll guess we'll have to see what Roy
has to say. ~ jan
======================
I'm sure it'll be some sleazy personal attack. It almost always is. ;-)



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

Hey,. I would have a pond even if I lived on an island allto my self.
Look at the place I have here. Its inundatedw tih numerous small water
features of 225 gal preforms down to multiple half barrel setups, all
over the place, three laarge naatural type mud ponds, a nice stream, a
barnfull of assorted aquariums and a gazeebo lined with varius tanks
and a new gazeebo in the works which will also have built in
tanks.......Give me water over grass any day!

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 21:04:39 +0000, Gill Passman
wrote:

cat daddy wrote:


As do I. The best part about the group was people sharing their
innovations and creative solutions and inspiring the newbies and regulars
alike.

Well let's hope that it will be again.....the other thing that would be
great is an environment where if someone has a different experience they
won't get shot down in flames for suggesting what works for them.....but
if they suggest this in an inflammatory manner then it is a different
matter....it is a great shame that people cannot see the difference
between discussion and personal attacks.....on a moderated group it has
to be said, that the fire will be taken out of the posts....it might not
get quite as lively but certainly will promote civil discussions and
exchanges of ideas....



Much the same here with the eternal planning. Up until recently, my
mother's pond (which is 50 miles away) required whatever attention I could
give, so that served to fill any ponding urges. I vacillate between making
the huge commitment build a pond complete as I've envisioned, or build in
stages, which as noted here repeatedly, would be less than satisfying once a
stage is complete.

Oh, the planning is most definitely fun.....I can spend countless hours
mulling over information and trying to make the best decision....this
doesn't just apply to ponds or fish tanks but other things as
well....savour the pleasure while you can is my motto....of course, the
implementation, and be able to say "I love it when a plan comes
together" (as per the A-Team, which of course I have never, ever,
watched in my life) has it's pay offs as well....sadly with me it is
also a precurser to yet another plan....IIRC don't you have tanks as
well? - might be wrong but I seem to remember seeing you giving advice
on the aquatic groups although it might have been Snooze....



Changing circumstances, both with my time (I volunteer to make
improvements at a local park) and available cash always delays that
commitment. I do have a hole in the backyard, where I excavate dirt needed
elsewhere, but I ultimately need to rent a machine to complete that work.

I can appreciate that one.....my pond went because I had a little one
and it just wasn't really safe enough....as she grows up the
circumstances change again.....Unfortunately, we do not have a passage
way large enough to get a decent digger down the side of the house....so
, just like with the original pond, it is going to be me with a
spade....hubby might help, but doesn't have the same motivation as
me....he'll help set up a tank quickly enough - building cabinets,
plumbing etc. but kind of draws the line at digging holes.....but that
is fine by me....afterall, you sure burn off a lot of calories digging - lol



I also live on a lake, have a resident Great Blue Heron, other water
birds and raccoons, and a Labrador, so the design has to take into account
those issues. I do have a view of water, so there's no urgency to provide my
own. And, with drought and water woes here, my interest lately has been in
the ecological and biofiltration aspects of watergardening and how it might
incorporate water conservation.

Partly I would find having a lake a bit of distraction in my
plans......why attempt to create something artificial when you have
nature sitting on your doorstep? Do you own the lake is it just
something bordering your property? Watching the wildlife and nature at
work is what I would be attempting to create artificially having no
interest in commercially breeding fish.....

I, for one, would be quite fascinated, in your thoughts on ecological
matters and bio-filtration.....water conservation is also a real big
issue over here in the UK...Of course, I would totally understand if you
do not wish to discuss these things on rec.ponds at the moment in view
of the games going on, so perhaps you might drop me an email - address
is pretty easy to decipher and yes, it is valid....

Gill




Well, that's enough for now......





-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

STFU asshole..no one is interested in yur pathetic phoney crap anymore
carol Gulley. Take it to some place that gives a rats ass........I can
assure you no one here does care one bit! Why not take it to the reef
group, they may lend you a shoulder to cry on! Carol Gulley the
dumbass asshole, without morales!



On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 15:17:49 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:


"Gill Passman" wrote in message
...
cat daddy wrote:


As do I. The best part about the group was people sharing their
innovations and creative solutions and inspiring the newbies and regulars
alike.

Well let's hope that it will be again.....the other thing that would be
great is an environment where if someone has a different experience they
won't get shot down in flames for suggesting what works for them.....but
if they suggest this in an inflammatory manner then it is a different
matter....it is a great shame that people cannot see the difference
between discussion and personal attacks.....on a moderated group it has to
be said, that the fire will be taken out of the posts....it might not get
quite as lively but certainly will promote civil discussions and exchanges
of ideas....
================
If the disagreements remain RESPECTFUL there should be no problems. It was
the lack of respect for those who were disagreed with that caused so much
flaming and hard feelings over the years here. Being called an a$$hole (and
worse) simply because you have a different viewpoint is absurd and
guaranteed to either flare tempers or drive people away. Either way the
group loses.



-------
I forgot more about ponds and koi than I'll ever know!

On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:49:32 -0600, Zëbulon wrote:

Jan, I don't ever recall

Easy defense.

What did you snip?

Got me. If you can't say it in a sentence or 2, I'm snipping and not
reading. And it is easy to say "I don't recall...." great defense.

But you had the time to nit-pick the fish issue to death...... interesting.

You make me LOL!

Roses are pruned, 3 garbage cans worth of rose's prunings plus some leaves
& twigs. Vacced around koi ponds, did a water change. We get another day
like this I'll vac around the lily pond, then I have to wait till the frogs
wake up. I'm sure we're still gonna have some cold nights yet. Yellow
crocus blooming. Koi ponds 45F!!! We hit 67F at one point today. Worked
hard, so going out to dinner. :-) ~ jan

"~ jan" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 17 Feb 2007 16:49:32 -0600, Zëbulon
wrote:

Jan, I don't ever recall

Easy defense.

What did you snip?

Got me. If you can't say it in a sentence or 2, I'm snipping and not
reading. And it is easy to say "I don't recall...." great defense.

A great defense against what?


But you had the time to nit-pick the fish issue to death......
interesting.

You make me LOL!

Snip rest and didn't read. Don't have time, have hollies to prune.

Gorgeous snowy night, 32F in the dark. Maybe the groundhog was
right, at least for the mid state. ;-)
--
ZB....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
rec.ponder since late 1996.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{(ö ~~~~ }((((({*