I began losing fish lately as I added some used railroad ties
impregnated with Creosote. I use two pieces as a plant shelf that
surrounds my small water garden on an outdoor deck. While the body of
the water does not contact the railroad ties, water run off from rain
and when I water my plants might cause some of the substance to enter
the pond water. My dead fish count increased dramatically as I added
the ties. Does anyone have any problems with Creosote used near a
pond? I just had my water quality tested and it was good. I'll remove
the ties if it is suggested that I do so.

If you go to home depot and look at the racks with pressure treated lumber,
you may see the warning signs telling you not to use around ponds or body of
water. I think the same will go for railroad ties.

My suggestion? Take them out.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"itten" wrote in message
...
I began losing fish lately as I added some used railroad ties
impregnated with Creosote. I use two pieces as a plant shelf that
surrounds my small water garden on an outdoor deck. While the body of
the water does not contact the railroad ties, water run off from rain
and when I water my plants might cause some of the substance to enter
the pond water. My dead fish count increased dramatically as I added
the ties. Does anyone have any problems with Creosote used near a
pond? I just had my water quality tested and it was good. I'll remove
the ties if it is suggested that I do so.

Were you losing fish before you added the rr ties? If not, well.

I lost a few fish here and there but not daily.
I will be removing the ties today and will start adding some feeder
fish like I did at the begining. I'll know for sure then.



In article , "Rick Samuel"
wrote:

Were you losing fish before you added the rr ties? If not, well.

Treated lumber is not a 'sure kill' in limited amounts near the pond. It
probably would be if in the pond. Fresh ties have lots of creosote and it
is toxic. Very old ties release fewer toxins. We have old ties and treated
lumber near our pond, but no run off directly into the pond. Our treated
lumber is in the edge of the deck that comes to the side of the pond . A
small portion actially cantilevers over the pond (about 10 sq ft). We have
had no discernible ill effects from it.

J

--
______________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net
______________________________________________
"Just Me "Koi"" wrote in message
...
If you go to home depot and look at the racks with pressure treated
lumber,
you may see the warning signs telling you not to use around ponds or body
of
water. I think the same will go for railroad ties.

My suggestion? Take them out.

--
_______________________________________
"The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is
like an eggs-and-ham breakfast:
The chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'."

http://community.webshots.com/user/godwino

"itten" wrote in message
...
I began losing fish lately as I added some used railroad ties
impregnated with Creosote. I use two pieces as a plant shelf that
surrounds my small water garden on an outdoor deck. While the body of
the water does not contact the railroad ties, water run off from rain
and when I water my plants might cause some of the substance to enter
the pond water. My dead fish count increased dramatically as I added
the ties. Does anyone have any problems with Creosote used near a
pond? I just had my water quality tested and it was good. I'll remove
the ties if it is suggested that I do so.

you start adding feeder fish now and you will kill off the rest of the fish.
maybe you better start over and tell us all about the pond, how big, how many fish,
water parameters, temp, etc.
Ingrid

itten wrote:

I lost a few fish here and there but not daily.
I will be removing the ties today and will start adding some feeder
fish like I did at the begining. I'll know for sure then.



In article , "Rick Samuel"
wrote:

Were you losing fish before you added the rr ties? If not, well.

250 gallons. Started out adding 12 feeders, then 20, then another 20,
then about 10 mosquito fish, 10 goldfish and finally 5 Koi of which I
lost one. I live in SC and the water temp is about 72. My pond water
tested good yesterday. I removed the two railroad ties that I
suspected being the problem. The four remaining Koi seem to be doing
fine as well as the larger goldfish. It seems that I started losing
the smallest of the fish first with the exception of one of my Koi.








In article ,
wrote:

you start adding feeder fish now and you will kill off the rest of the fish.
maybe you better start over and tell us all about the pond, how big, how many
fish,
water parameters, temp, etc.
Ingrid

itten wrote:

I lost a few fish here and there but not daily.
I will be removing the ties today and will start adding some feeder
fish like I did at the begining. I'll know for sure then.



In article , "Rick Samuel"
wrote:

Were you losing fish before you added the rr ties? If not, well.

Too bad about your losses.

Population may be a significant problem for you. Do I count right? 62
goldfish and 5 koi in 250 gallons. You do/will face an overcrowding problem
in spades.

I think people generally figure 20 gal per goldfish and 100 per koi. That
calls for about 1700 gallons for the load you have (less some for deaths).

Even if they are small now, they will grow. Your problems may have to do
with overcrowding.

Additionally, how long has the pond been up and running. It may not have
cycled enough to be stable and handling the fish load.

How many are still alive? Any way to thin the population?

Ingrid will no doubt have some good advice for you.

P
--
______________________________________________
See our pond at: home.bellsouth.net\p\pwp-jameshurley
Check out Jog-A-Thon fundraiser (clears $140+ per child) at: jogathon.net
______________________________________________
"itten" wrote in message
...
250 gallons. Started out adding 12 feeders, then 20, then another 20,
then about 10 mosquito fish, 10 goldfish and finally 5 Koi of which I
lost one. I live in SC and the water temp is about 72. My pond water
tested good yesterday. I removed the two railroad ties that I
suspected being the problem. The four remaining Koi seem to be doing
fine as well as the larger goldfish. It seems that I started losing
the smallest of the fish first with the exception of one of my Koi.








In article ,
wrote:

you start adding feeder fish now and you will kill off the rest of the
fish.
maybe you better start over and tell us all about the pond, how big, how
many
fish,
water parameters, temp, etc.
Ingrid

itten wrote:

I lost a few fish here and there but not daily.
I will be removing the ties today and will start adding some feeder
fish like I did at the begining. I'll know for sure then.



In article , "Rick Samuel"
wrote:

Were you losing fish before you added the rr ties? If not, well.

My pond has been up now for three weeks. I starting adding fish after
one week. I guess natural selection started eliminating the smallest of
the fish first. I have four Koi left and probably a handfull of
goldfish. They seem to be doing fine. One more thing I noticed
including the dead goldfish I just removed, is the fact that the tail
fins on a lot of the fish are missing, like they are being eaten by
something. I noticed this on some of the other fish.






In article , "Phyllis
and Jim Hurley" wrote:

Too bad about your losses.

Population may be a significant problem for you. Do I count right? 62
goldfish and 5 koi in 250 gallons. You do/will face an overcrowding problem
in spades.

I think people generally figure 20 gal per goldfish and 100 per koi. That
calls for about 1700 gallons for the load you have (less some for deaths).

Even if they are small now, they will grow. Your problems may have to do
with overcrowding.

Additionally, how long has the pond been up and running. It may not have
cycled enough to be stable and handling the fish load.

How many are still alive? Any way to thin the population?

Ingrid will no doubt have some good advice for you.

P

On Mon, 19 May 2003 07:30:17 -0400, itten wrote:

My pond has been up now for three weeks. I starting adding fish after
one week. I guess natural selection started eliminating the smallest of
the fish first. I have four Koi left and probably a handfull of
goldfish. They seem to be doing fine. One more thing I noticed
including the dead goldfish I just removed, is the fact that the tail
fins on a lot of the fish are missing, like they are being eaten by
something. I noticed this on some of the other fish.

That's just another symptom of poor water quality. ~ jan

See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

One fine day ,
itten picked up the keyboard and pecked out:
:: 250 gallons. Started out adding 12 feeders, then 20, then another 20,
:: then about 10 mosquito fish, 10 goldfish and finally 5 Koi of which I
:: lost one. I live in SC and the water temp is about 72.
======================================
My largest pond is 2,000 gallons and I don't have anywhere near this many
fish in it!!! My 780 gallon pond only has 3 smallish butterfly koi and
about 15 goldfish.
--
Carol.......
"Beat the 5 o'clock rush - leave work at noon."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~{@

"itten" wrote in message
...
I began losing fish lately as I added some used railroad ties
impregnated with Creosote. I use two pieces as a plant shelf that
surrounds my small water garden on an outdoor deck. While the body of
the water does not contact the railroad ties, water run off from rain
and when I water my plants might cause some of the substance to enter
the pond water. My dead fish count increased dramatically as I added
the ties. Does anyone have any problems with Creosote used near a
pond? I just had my water quality tested and it was good. I'll remove
the ties if it is suggested that I do so.

Creosote is nasty stuff especially when heated, even just by the sun. I
don't know how popular Paul James is with this group (I like his goofy
style), but he recently talked about Creosote on his show. Here is a link to
the topic...

http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_plants_w...1397094,00.htm
l

BV.

"itten" wrote in message
...
250 gallons. Started out adding 12 feeders, then 20, then another 20,
then about 10 mosquito fish, 10 goldfish and finally 5 Koi of which I
lost one. I live in SC and the water temp is about 72. My pond water
tested good yesterday. I removed the two railroad ties that I
suspected being the problem. The four remaining Koi seem to be doing
fine as well as the larger goldfish. It seems that I started losing
the smallest of the fish first with the exception of one of my Koi.

I think your problem is probably overcrowding, but I also would not keep the
treated wood nearby. Creosote treated wood is much different from pressure
treated wood, and I would not put it anywhere near my pond nor garden.

BV.

I removed the two offending pieces that were probably leeching the
chemical when it rained or were getting wet via my fountain spray. I'm
going to try to varnish the two remaining pieces with polyurethane.
I'm hoping that will keep most of the Creosote out of my water.





In article , "BenignVanilla"
m wrote:

"itten" wrote in message
...
250 gallons. Started out adding 12 feeders, then 20, then another 20,
then about 10 mosquito fish, 10 goldfish and finally 5 Koi of which I
lost one. I live in SC and the water temp is about 72. My pond water
tested good yesterday. I removed the two railroad ties that I
suspected being the problem. The four remaining Koi seem to be doing
fine as well as the larger goldfish. It seems that I started losing
the smallest of the fish first with the exception of one of my Koi.

I think your problem is probably overcrowding, but I also would not keep the
treated wood nearby. Creosote treated wood is much different from pressure
treated wood, and I would not put it anywhere near my pond nor garden.

BV.

Paul James RULES!!! Rock on, Dude! (Ahem! gotta act like a grown-up now)

itten, creosote is BAD stuff. Just removing the offending pieces may not be
enough at this time: when it rained, the stuff leached into the water and
REMAINS in the water. You'll have to do several significant water changes to
remove the "stuff".

Lee

"BenignVanilla" m wrote in
message ...
"itten" wrote in message
...
I began losing fish lately as I added some used railroad ties
impregnated with Creosote. I use two pieces as a plant shelf that
surrounds my small water garden on an outdoor deck. While the body of
the water does not contact the railroad ties, water run off from rain
and when I water my plants might cause some of the substance to enter
the pond water. My dead fish count increased dramatically as I added
the ties. Does anyone have any problems with Creosote used near a
pond? I just had my water quality tested and it was good. I'll remove
the ties if it is suggested that I do so.

Creosote is nasty stuff especially when heated, even just by the sun. I
don't know how popular Paul James is with this group (I like his goofy
style), but he recently talked about Creosote on his show. Here is a link
to
the topic...


http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/gl_plants_w...1397094,00.htm
l

BV.