I think I need to install a skimmer due to serious trees and I want to
make it myself. If I can't - I'll just deal with a mucky pond at this
point (getting fed up with the process).

The concept seems simple enough. A container, a spillway cut into the
container, a pump in the bottom, netting or crate to catch the junk.

BUT....

1. What about the swinging door thing? Do I need that? I think so
because it will still work with raised or lowered pond levels. Right?
Is that correct thinking on the door issue? If that's true, I guess
one would want to get a replacement part door thingy from a premade
skimmer manufacturer? Or - how would one create a proper door? Yet I
see some that have no flappy door?

2. Also, I'm interested in a smallish footprint for this thing. I
have an 1800 gph pondmaster mag pump. Is there any rule about
vault/container sizes per the power of the pump? Or is it fair game
for me in choosing the size of the container? I read here someone
used a plastic file cabinet box. It would be great if I could use
something similarly smallish.

3. What happens if the water level drops below the spillway? My pump
would die. How do you prevent this? Does the flappy door idea
prevent this from happening cuz you can sink the lowest level of the
opening lower?

Any pictures?

Lisa wrote:

1. What about the swinging door thing? Do I need that? I think so
because it will still work with raised or lowered pond levels. Right?
Is that correct thinking on the door issue? If that's true, I guess
one would want to get a replacement part door thingy from a premade
skimmer manufacturer? Or - how would one create a proper door? Yet I
see some that have no flappy door?
I think the door is mostly so you can keep pond water out if you want to do
maintenance to the pump or plumbing in the skimmer.


2. Also, I'm interested in a smallish footprint for this thing. I
have an 1800 gph pondmaster mag pump. Is there any rule about
vault/container sizes per the power of the pump? Or is it fair game
for me in choosing the size of the container? I read here someone
used a plastic file cabinet box. It would be great if I could use
something similarly smallish.
The issue here will be proper flow. If the skimmer opening is too small, the
pump will not be getting adequate water supply. Too large and "skim" factor
is reduced. I know the commercial skimmers have gph rates that they are
rated for.


3. What happens if the water level drops below the spillway? My pump
would die. How do you prevent this? Does the flappy door idea
prevent this from happening cuz you can sink the lowest level of the
opening lower?
See answer to (2) above. Also, you want the bottom of the "spillway" to be
typically located so it is below the usual level of your pond. I use a float
valve in my skimmer box and have it adjusted so my pond level is always
consistent.

Hope that helps
Joe



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If the skimmer door you're talking about is like the skimmer door on a pool
or spa, that door swings ONLY toward the flow and cannot swing out thereby
acting as a check valve for the things you are skimming off. In a pool or
spa, the pumps only run 3-4 hours/day or when you want them on and when the
pumps are off, the lack of flow would allow the leaves to back flow into the
pool or spa without the door.

If you have a separate pump for the skimmer and you don't want to run it
24/7, the door would provide the same function - if you're using your filter
pump and running constant, the door would only be necessary during
maintenance.

"joe" wrote in message
...
Lisa wrote:

1. What about the swinging door thing? Do I need that? I think so
because it will still work with raised or lowered pond levels. Right?
Is that correct thinking on the door issue? If that's true, I guess
one would want to get a replacement part door thingy from a premade
skimmer manufacturer? Or - how would one create a proper door? Yet I
see some that have no flappy door?
I think the door is mostly so you can keep pond water out if you want to
do
maintenance to the pump or plumbing in the skimmer.


2. Also, I'm interested in a smallish footprint for this thing. I
have an 1800 gph pondmaster mag pump. Is there any rule about
vault/container sizes per the power of the pump? Or is it fair game
for me in choosing the size of the container? I read here someone
used a plastic file cabinet box. It would be great if I could use
something similarly smallish.
The issue here will be proper flow. If the skimmer opening is too small,
the
pump will not be getting adequate water supply. Too large and "skim"
factor
is reduced. I know the commercial skimmers have gph rates that they are
rated for.


3. What happens if the water level drops below the spillway? My pump
would die. How do you prevent this? Does the flappy door idea
prevent this from happening cuz you can sink the lowest level of the
opening lower?
See answer to (2) above. Also, you want the bottom of the "spillway" to be
typically located so it is below the usual level of your pond. I use a
float
valve in my skimmer box and have it adjusted so my pond level is always
consistent.

Hope that helps
Joe



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----

Skimming is removing only top water, so the door maintains the water level
into the skimmer box. The door should be made to float, hinged at the
bottom so that as the water level is pulled down on the inside, the door is
drawn inward, and water can then flow over it. As for the size of the
skimmer box, it should be as large as possible. The leaves that you are
trying to catch will fill a small box in very short amount of time and then
the pump will be choked by the amount of leaves. A net on the inside will
keep the leaves away from the pump, and the flow will draw the leaves near
the skimmer, so if the skimmer is small, then a net can be used at that side
of the pond to collect the leaves off the surface of the pond.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html


"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
I think I need to install a skimmer due to serious trees and I want to
make it myself. If I can't - I'll just deal with a mucky pond at this
point (getting fed up with the process).

The concept seems simple enough. A container, a spillway cut into the
container, a pump in the bottom, netting or crate to catch the junk.

BUT....

1. What about the swinging door thing? Do I need that? I think so
because it will still work with raised or lowered pond levels. Right?
Is that correct thinking on the door issue? If that's true, I guess
one would want to get a replacement part door thingy from a premade
skimmer manufacturer? Or - how would one create a proper door? Yet I
see some that have no flappy door?

2. Also, I'm interested in a smallish footprint for this thing. I
have an 1800 gph pondmaster mag pump. Is there any rule about
vault/container sizes per the power of the pump? Or is it fair game
for me in choosing the size of the container? I read here someone
used a plastic file cabinet box. It would be great if I could use
something similarly smallish.

3. What happens if the water level drops below the spillway? My pump
would die. How do you prevent this? Does the flappy door idea
prevent this from happening cuz you can sink the lowest level of the
opening lower?

Any pictures?

"Lisa" wrote in message
om...
I think I need to install a skimmer due to serious trees and I want to
make it myself. If I can't - I'll just deal with a mucky pond at this
point (getting fed up with the process).
snip

Google for bickal and pond or click here
http://www.geocities.com/bickal2000/skimmer.htm. I have not found a better
DIY site. Period.

BV.

Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be needed.

Paul

I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message ...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be needed.

Paul

Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
om...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be needed.

Paul

Paul in Redland mentioned:
and water changes are automatic.

So how are you removing water? If the water is leaving via evaporation
that's not a change, that is a topoff. Water should be removed and new
water added 10-20% at least twice a month, if not more often.

See water change-outs at:
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html ~ jan


On Thu, 22 May 2003 18:46:18 -0700, "Paul in Redland" wrote:

Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
. com...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be needed.

Paul



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

If your method is to just overfill your pond, I have two things that
come to mind. 1.) It is an inefficient method of doing water changes
because the overflow is already 'diluted' with the new water. Also,
if the pond is near a house with a basement, such a method could cause
problems. 2.) Either water is very cheap where you live or you have
money to throw away. Where I live, sewer charges are based on water
usage and are about 65% of the total water bill. It would be cost
prohibitive to do your method. Also, for a lot of people, fresh water
is not an unlimited commodity. Many areas have restrictions. For
most, I don't believe your method is a viable option.

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message ...
Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
om...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be needed.

Paul

Jan, what part of " an overflow to carry away surplus water " didn't you
understand? Wow! I've always wanted to say that.
Actually, the timer comes on twice a day for 10 min and the surplus goes
down the overflow drain and over a cliff in my backyard. Oh, I'm also on a
well, so all the nasty things that are common in " city " water aren't a
problem.

Paul



"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
...
Paul in Redland mentioned:
and water changes are automatic.

So how are you removing water? If the water is leaving via evaporation
that's not a change, that is a topoff. Water should be removed and new
water added 10-20% at least twice a month, if not more often.

See water change-outs at:
http://www.koiclubsandiego.org/H2oQual.html ~ jan


On Thu, 22 May 2003 18:46:18 -0700, "Paul in Redland"
wrote:

Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that
the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need
the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds
set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also
have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
. com...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be
needed.

Paul



See my ponds and filter design:
http://users.owt.com/jjspond/

~Keep 'em Wet!~
Tri-Cities WA Zone 7a
To e-mail see website

Hey! Lighten up. I'm on a well, my water cost is next to zip and the nearest
sewer is in town, 12 miles away. I don't care about being efficient with
water changes. My system adds about 75 gallons daily to the large pond and
if half of that goes down the overflow, I don't care, because the other half
stayed in the pond and displaced 'old' water. This system has worked very
well for me for 4 years now. My water ALWAYS tests great, I have zero muck
(mulm) on the bottom and I have NEVER cleaned the pond out, oh did I mention
that I've not had a single fish die in 4 years? Oh and I forgot to mention I
have never had green water either. I'm not saying that everyone should set
their pond up like this, like you say, it wouldn't work for all situations,
but for me it works great. The only reason I even mentioned it was that I
figured someone may get an idea that may help them.

Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
m...
If your method is to just overfill your pond, I have two things that
come to mind. 1.) It is an inefficient method of doing water changes
because the overflow is already 'diluted' with the new water. Also,
if the pond is near a house with a basement, such a method could cause
problems. 2.) Either water is very cheap where you live or you have
money to throw away. Where I live, sewer charges are based on water
usage and are about 65% of the total water bill. It would be cost
prohibitive to do your method. Also, for a lot of people, fresh water
is not an unlimited commodity. Many areas have restrictions. For
most, I don't believe your method is a viable option.

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that
the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need
the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds
set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also
have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
om...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be
needed.

Paul

In article ,
"Paul in Redland" wrote:

Hey! Lighten up. I'm on a well, my water cost is next to zip and the nearest
sewer is in town, 12 miles away. I don't care about being efficient with
water changes. My system adds about 75 gallons daily to the large pond and
if half of that goes down the overflow, I don't care, because the other half
stayed in the pond and displaced 'old' water. This system has worked very
well for me for 4 years now. My water ALWAYS tests great, I have zero muck
(mulm) on the bottom and I have NEVER cleaned the pond out, oh did I mention
that I've not had a single fish die in 4 years? Oh and I forgot to mention I
have never had green water either. I'm not saying that everyone should set
their pond up like this, like you say, it wouldn't work for all situations,
but for me it works great. The only reason I even mentioned it was that I
figured someone may get an idea that may help them.

Fair enough... but you should of added that your water doesn't contain
chlorine (or other), deadly to koi.

jay
Fri, May 23, 2003



Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
m...
If your method is to just overfill your pond, I have two things that
come to mind. 1.) It is an inefficient method of doing water changes
because the overflow is already 'diluted' with the new water. Also,
if the pond is near a house with a basement, such a method could cause
problems. 2.) Either water is very cheap where you live or you have
money to throw away. Where I live, sewer charges are based on water
usage and are about 65% of the total water bill. It would be cost
prohibitive to do your method. Also, for a lot of people, fresh water
is not an unlimited commodity. Many areas have restrictions. For
most, I don't believe your method is a viable option.

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that
the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need
the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds
set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also
have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
om...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be
needed.

Paul



--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."

Sorry if I came across poorly. My point was simply that for many of
us, your method is not a viable alternative. For you, your only cost
is for the electricity to run your pump and water is plentiful. This
is not the case in many areas.

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message ...
Hey! Lighten up. I'm on a well, my water cost is next to zip and the nearest
sewer is in town, 12 miles away. I don't care about being efficient with
water changes. My system adds about 75 gallons daily to the large pond and
if half of that goes down the overflow, I don't care, because the other half
stayed in the pond and displaced 'old' water. This system has worked very
well for me for 4 years now. My water ALWAYS tests great, I have zero muck
(mulm) on the bottom and I have NEVER cleaned the pond out, oh did I mention
that I've not had a single fish die in 4 years? Oh and I forgot to mention I
have never had green water either. I'm not saying that everyone should set
their pond up like this, like you say, it wouldn't work for all situations,
but for me it works great. The only reason I even mentioned it was that I
figured someone may get an idea that may help them.

Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
m...
If your method is to just overfill your pond, I have two things that
come to mind. 1.) It is an inefficient method of doing water changes
because the overflow is already 'diluted' with the new water. Also,
if the pond is near a house with a basement, such a method could cause
problems. 2.) Either water is very cheap where you live or you have
money to throw away. Where I live, sewer charges are based on water
usage and are about 65% of the total water bill. It would be cost
prohibitive to do your method. Also, for a lot of people, fresh water
is not an unlimited commodity. Many areas have restrictions. For
most, I don't believe your method is a viable option.

"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Solve that problem by having a valve on a timer to add water to the pond
daily and an overflow to carry away surplus water. The advantage is that
the
water level in the pond never varies, ( hence the skimmer doesn't need
the
door thingy ) and water changes are automatic. I have both of my ponds
set
up this way and the third one that is in the planning stage will also
have
this feature.
Paul

"Cleveland Ponder" wrote in message
om...
I disagree. The reason for the door/flap is to maintain a constant
spillway height adjusting to changing water levels. It causes the
water to move faster at the opening causing it to pull floating debris
in. If the spillway gets to shallow, debris can catch at and block
the opening. If the spillway gets to deep, the flow gets to slow and
doesn't draw the surface water.


"Paul in Redland" wrote in message
...
Forget the door thing if your skimmer will run 27/7, it won't be
needed.

Paul

Fair enough... but you should of added that your water doesn't contain
chlorine (or other), deadly to koi.

Small amounts of chlorine are not a problem.

I use a slightly different scheme, a 1/2 gal/hr drip irrigation emmiter
into my filter, thus overflowing 12 gallons a day. My vege garden is
downhill from my pond so I just move a hose around to use the water.

I'm happy with it. Pond always full, water clean and I use the water
twice :-)