In article , joe
wrote:

Yes, that may well be correct, or it may be that some fish are less
susceptible than others. Lowering ammonia can do no harm.

It can only help. I'd catch a few and put them in a trash can with
copper and new fresh water and lots of air. Nothing like a control
group.



jay
Wed May 19, 2004



Joe

On 5/19/04 9:58 AM, "Go Fig" wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in
bioload
and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting
the
fish
spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this
added
wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet.

After a few weeks at 60+ degrees water temps, they will be online and
working.

We don't know the posters circumstances or how the pond was cared for
in the fall.

While the ammonia is an additional stress to the fish. I still
maintain that there is some disease process going on. The indication
for this is that the poster is losing just a few fish a day... not a
complete wipe-out.


jay
Wed May 19, 2004



at minimum
have a
gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do
water
changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely
need
oxygen
to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that
algae
is a
good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off
until
spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running.
Ingrid


joe wrote:

My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime
in.
My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
adversely affected."

Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
carrying oxygen.

Also:
This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in
fact I
can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will
have
the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.

Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
pipe in on the subject.

Joe


On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" wrote:

Joe,
Thanks for the reply.

I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original
posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

Any help would be appreciated.
Ray
"joe" wrote in message
...
What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?

Joe

On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" wrote:

I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.

I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
any
appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.

There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which I
took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
carried a virus that infected the fish?

I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
it
twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.

I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.

I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.

Thanks,

Ray






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

"ray hucek" wrote in message
...
Rich,
Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help. I
lost 6 today.

What about aeration? Are the fish gasping at the surface at all? With the
high temp water, I wonder if you have an oxygen problem?

BV.

"ray hucek" wrote in message
news
Ingrid,
Thanks for the advice. I will get on the water change tonight. I didn't
realize how toxic they were. This year has seen the most toad mating in
that pond. It is just upsetting that I didn't realize the damage sooner.

I added in more aeration earlier this evening. I will look to beef it up.
snip

Just be aware if you do not treat the new water for chloramine/chlorine, you
may just make the problem worse!

I don't buy that the toad load is toxifying your pond. Your test numbers
don't seem to indicate a spike of any sort. It doesn't hurt to do what
changes, as long as you dechlor, and if you are having spikes the dechlor
will help.


--
BV.
www.iheartmypond.com

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"ray hucek" wrote in message
...
Rich,
Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help.
I
lost 6 today.

What about aeration? Are the fish gasping at the surface at all? With the
high temp water, I wonder if you have an oxygen problem?

BV.


I would personally go along with this one, I turn my fountain up at this
time of year as it is a good
means of aeration. This temperature is even above the norm for tropical
fish.
Mouse (Yorkshire UK )

"Mouse" wrote in message
...

"Benign Vanilla" wrote in message
...

"ray hucek" wrote in message
...
Rich,
Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help.
I
lost 6 today.

What about aeration? Are the fish gasping at the surface at all? With the
high temp water, I wonder if you have an oxygen problem?

BV.


I would personally go along with this one, I turn my fountain up at this
time of year as it is a good
means of aeration. This temperature is even above the norm for tropical
fish.
Mouse (Yorkshire UK )


My thoughts exactly, about the temperature, that is.

Ingrid,
Thanks for the advice. I will get on the water change tonight. I didn't
realize how toxic they were. This year has seen the most toad mating in
that pond. It is just upsetting that I didn't realize the damage sooner.

I added in more aeration earlier this evening. I will look to beef it up.

With appreciation,
Ray
wrote in message
...
your water has gone toxic, most likely from the spawning of toads. DO NOT
TREAT WITH
MEDICINES. this will just make it more toxic.
water changes!!!!!! get those toads and toadpoles and eggs out of there.
If you have to drain the pond, move the fish to a kiddie pool and clean
all those
toadpoles outta there.
if you dont have hellatious aeration in this pond get an air blower from
aquatic
ecosystems and 4 of their foot long sintered glass air stones to put
oxygen into this
pond. between the ammonia and the temp of the water the fish are
smothering.
Ingrid

"ray hucek" wrote in message
...
Rich,
Thanks for the link. I'll see if they can help me. I need some help. I
lost 6 today.
Ray

I feel for you. I can understand your concern and frustration. If you are
losing that many that quick, it might be a good idea to take one of the dead
ones to a vet or a reputable pet shop right away and have them look at it to see
if they can see any signs of infection or parasites. If you are losing that
many that quickly, it sounds like something particiularly virulent, that is, if
it is not an environmental problem. Any red spots or red streaks on them? How
about white spots or fuzzy patches? Are the scales swollen? How do their fins
looks? Are they rubbing against rocks? This is how I knew that my catfish had
a problem last fall. These are all signs of parasites and/or bacterial
infections. See my earlier posts.

Finally, I know this sounds strange, but I had a problem with my salt water tank
several years back that I would never have suspected. My fish were apparently
sick, and were darting about. One even tried to jump out of the tank. The
problem was that the tank was not properly grounded, and the fish were being
shocked. Believe it or not. This is a particular problem with salt water tanks,
and not usually freshwater. Nevertheless, it is just one more thing you should
check for. Check you electrical connections, and make sure there are no
abraided wires, and that the pump(s) and/or any other electrical gadgets is/are
properly grounded. A ground fault interupter is always a good thing to install
on your electrical supply for an outdoor water environment. It will also keep
you and your family safe.

"RichToyBox" wrote in message
news:Mxxqc.74465$536.12093483@attbi_s03...
Go to http://www.koitulsa.org/pages/800287/index.htm and see if any of
their
members are koi health advisors or if they have any trained health hotline
people that can do a microscopic evaluation. I suspect that it is
parasites, but I like to taylor the treatment to the particular parasite,
not the shotgun approach. Some of the treatments can be harmful/stressful
to the fish, and not affect the parasites, while some other treatment
will
take care of the parasite with minimum damage to the fish.
--
RichToyBox
http://www.geocities.com/richtoybox/pondintro.html
"Ka30P" wrote in message
...

And let's not forget the importance of checking water quality FIRST, and if
there is ammonia showing YOU MUST treat that first before doing a water
change.

Doing a water change with a possible higher pH than the pond makes the
ammonia even more toxic. So as Ingrid put it, everyone should have Ammonia
locker upper on hand.

What I'd like to know is, what is/was the KH of the OP's pond? ~ jan

On Wed, 19 May 2004 13:20:59 GMT, wrote:

people.... all those eggs and sperm hitting the water is a huge increase in bioload
and then it all rots and the ammonia spikes. and we arent even counting the fish
spawning either. spring can be a HUGE water quality issue because all this added
wastes hit at a time the biofilters are NOT fully online yet. at minimum have a
gallon of ammonia locker upper around just in case you dont have time to do water
changes. and aeration is extremely important as the biobugs absolutely need oxygen
to break that stuff down. as much as I like clear water, consider that algae is a
good waste absorber and it may be better for the pond to leave the UV off until
spawning is over and/or the biofilter is online.
and forgodssake underfeed your fish until that biofilter is up and running. Ingrid


joe wrote:

My test kit says that levels of 0.25 mg/litre of ammonia can be lethal. I
don't have the conversion to PPM, maybe Ingrid or someone else can chime in.
My test kit also says that "As far as possible the nitrite concentration
should not exceed 0.20 mg/litre. At a level of 0.5 mg the fish will be
adversely affected."

Both ammonia and nitrite in high levels prevent fish from obtaining and
carrying oxygen.

Also:
This is a long shot, but has your community switched from chlorine to
chloramine in tap water? The latter takes way longer to dissipate (in fact I
can't find anything that says it ever dissipates) and I'm wondering if you
use a dechlorinator? If not, you might go get a jug of amquel. It will have
the side benefit of reducing your ammonia level. Would you consider your
filters effective? Poor filtering could lead to higher nitrite levels.

Sorry, don't know much about parasites, but many others on this list can
pipe in on the subject.

Joe


On 5/18/04 2:13 PM, "ray hucek" wrote:

Joe,
Thanks for the reply.

I tested the water and forgot to give the findings in my original posting.
Sorry--
PH -7.4-7.6
Ammon-- less than 1 PPM.
Nitrite-- .25
water temp- 80 degrees

Any help would be appreciated.
Ray
"joe" wrote in message
...
What are your water parameters (ammonia, nitrate, ph, etc)?

Joe

On 5/18/04 8:51 AM, "ray hucek" wrote:

I am in need of some advice and hope you could help.

I am having a fish die-off. They are goldfish and the pond is about 6
years
old. I have never had anything like this happen before. There aren't
any
appearant signs of infection on the fish. The only symptoms that I see
are
listlessness at the end of their life. They lose their appetite.

There haven't been any plant or fish additions to the pond. The only
connection that I have seen is this-toads come to mate in my pond as in
previous years. This year, I found a dead toad floating in my pond,
which I
took out. That was about 3-4 weeks ago. Later, all of the tadpoles
died
off. There currently are more and they seem to be doing all right. In
the
past week, I have had 1-3 fish die every day. Is it possible that the
toad
carried a virus that infected the fish?

I have done a water change this past weekend of about 30%. I medicated
it
twice with a combination of formalin and malachite green. The pond is
about
3,000 gallons and has an external filtering system.

I am at a loss. None of the diseases that I have seen described match
this.

I am hoping someone will have some suggestions.

Thanks,

Ray






-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----





-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

(Do you know where your water quality is?)

"~ jan JJsPond.us" wrote in message
s.com...
And let's not forget the importance of checking water quality FIRST, and
if
there is ammonia showing YOU MUST treat that first before doing a water
change.

Doing a water change with a possible higher pH than the pond makes the
ammonia even more toxic. So as Ingrid put it, everyone should have Ammonia
locker upper on hand.

What I'd like to know is, what is/was the KH of the OP's pond? ~ jan
snip

I concur...I have a gallon of it, stored right next to the pond.

BV.