So let us not criticize until we have lived in those shoes for a while.
Ingrid

the news showed
Iraqi's living in squalor, garbage littering the ground, goats,
chickens picking thru it, etc, sanitation problems came to my mind.

What is critical about describing what the news showed and what opinion it
caused to form in my mind? ~ jan
(Do you know where your water quality is?)

interesting article discusses how they are going after anyone in Hollywood that is
speaking out. People in hollywood do have more influence than is warranted given
some of them are very close to being morons. it isnt just that an extraordinary lot
of them have never finished high school, but their "lifestyle" is not given to
critical thinking of any kind. as a nation we tend to think pretty kids and people
are smarter than they are. There are exceptions of course, people like Jodie Foster
comes to mind. She is going to Harvard (IIRC).
What is scary is all that adulation and fame goes to their heads and they really
think that qualifies them to be a representative of their people. None of them start
like a typical public servant serving on local school boards, city council etc while
they learn what they must learn. Politics is a great deal more like a team sport
than the star system, so the vast majority are really lousy politicians. The back
room boys like "stars" cause they can walk the walk and talk the talk and really look
the part AND they take direction very well indeed. But I would rather be represented
by a person than a bunch of puppeteers I dont know.
Ingrid

(BC DEX) wrote:

Ahhhh ... The Dixie Chicks. Freedom of speech...
What they said was nothing compared to what is being said today by
other people in Washington.
Why is it they caught all kinds of crap for saying something, about
whats his name?
But nothing is said about all the name calling today from all the other
people in politics?



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

On Tue, 13 Jul 2004 11:16:50 -0700, ~ jan JJsPond.us
wrote:

I feel it isn't my newsreader.

It wasn't your newsreader, but mine, I was having to go thru Google for
awhile. Regardless, I'll stick with my last comment:

Quite simply: You took my simple story-comparison out of context and gave
it a negative spin. Rather than play nice and ask for a clarification you
made a judgment instead.

You apologize for doing that, I'll apologize for questioning your support
of military personnel, that was written out of irritation from what
happened above. ~ jan


Jan,

It's been nearly a week, lets see if this can be wrapped up.

I find myself in a quandry. In theory I feel 'It's their country, let
them make a mess of it if they want.' In practice, trash SHOULD be
removed. It's not just a matter of appearance, it's a matter of
health and sanitation. Obviously, I don't have a good grasp of what
life is like for the average citizen in Iraq. Is it so bad that just
stepping outside is risking your life? Or is it more dangerous to
ride the New York Subway? (I suspect it lies somewhere in between).
If someone collects a bag of trash, what happens to it? Here the city
sends a truck around every week. When I was growing up we would burn
it. Somehow that doesn't sound like a safe option in Iraq right now.

And I feel anyone in authority SHOULD try to set an example. I can
appreciate your son being upset about trainees simply dropping empty
water bottles. I simply disagree with how he tried to remedy the
situation (and no, I'm not sure which my ways would be better).

As far as the news media, I think we both agree they report what they
feel will keep people watching. And a LOT of what they report is so
trivial they make me want to scream!! Two minutes on the morning news
about Jessica Simpson and her plans to start a family? Give me a
#%#%#^$ break! How about 2 minutes on the medical treatment available
at a hospital in Baghdad? How about SOMETHING that will give us a
REAL idea of what an average soldier puts up with?

I really symphathise with anyone who is forced to rely on Google for
newsgroup access, and I hope you get your regular reader working.

PlainBill
He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppression, for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself.
-Thomas Paine

recycled hoo-haa from the Viet Nam era........

Go ahead and troll all you want. Your arguments make a lot of sense - if
you're a liberal cut-and-run type. If it were up to people like you, we
never would have fought - and defeated - Germany, Japan and the Soviet
Union, and dictatorships around the world would be the order of the day.

We'll both get our chance to vote come November. You can vote for
socialism, I'm voting for freedom.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

recycled hoo-haa from the Viet Nam era........

Go ahead and troll all you want. Your arguments make a lot of sense - if
you're a liberal cut-and-run type. If it were up to people like you, we
never would have fought - and defeated - Germany, Japan and the Soviet
Union, and dictatorships around the world would be the order of the day.

We'll both get our chance to vote come November. You can vote for
socialism, I'm voting for freedom.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Yes, I know you care little to nothing about the hundreds of thousands
slaughtered by the North Vietnamese when they finally took over the South.
It was a good cause and a just war, and I honor the memory of my fallen
comrades. They, like me, believed in opposing evil and not just turning
away from it.

You were/are probably one of the "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"
crowd. Funny how you all never quoted the next line: "Why, then, the war
will come to you!"

Just like Kerry, you probably believe that we should wait until terrorists
strike us again and then respond, instead of pre-emptive strikes.

wrote in message
...
recycled hoo-haa from the Viet Nam era........

Go ahead and troll all you want. Your arguments make a lot of sense - if
you're a liberal cut-and-run type. If it were up to people like you, we
never would have fought - and defeated - Germany, Japan and the Soviet
Union, and dictatorships around the world would be the order of the day.

We'll both get our chance to vote come November. You can vote for
socialism, I'm voting for freedom.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

Yes, I know you care little to nothing about the hundreds of thousands
slaughtered by the North Vietnamese when they finally took over the South.
It was a good cause and a just war, and I honor the memory of my fallen
comrades. They, like me, believed in opposing evil and not just turning
away from it.

You were/are probably one of the "What if they gave a war and nobody came?"
crowd. Funny how you all never quoted the next line: "Why, then, the war
will come to you!"

Just like Kerry, you probably believe that we should wait until terrorists
strike us again and then respond, instead of pre-emptive strikes.

wrote in message
...
recycled hoo-haa from the Viet Nam era........

Go ahead and troll all you want. Your arguments make a lot of sense - if
you're a liberal cut-and-run type. If it were up to people like you, we
never would have fought - and defeated - Germany, Japan and the Soviet
Union, and dictatorships around the world would be the order of the day.

We'll both get our chance to vote come November. You can vote for
socialism, I'm voting for freedom.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

how many people do we kill and how many countries do we "pre-emptive"?
is this how you teach? "pre-emptive" diplomacy lol


"tim chandler" wrote in message
...
Yes, I know you care little to nothing about the hundreds of thousands
slaughtered by the North Vietnamese when they finally took over the South.
It was a good cause and a just war, and I honor the memory of my fallen
comrades. They, like me, believed in opposing evil and not just turning
away from it.

You were/are probably one of the "What if they gave a war and nobody
came?"
crowd. Funny how you all never quoted the next line: "Why, then, the war
will come to you!"

Just like Kerry, you probably believe that we should wait until terrorists
strike us again and then respond, instead of pre-emptive strikes.

wrote in message
...
recycled hoo-haa from the Viet Nam era........

Go ahead and troll all you want. Your arguments make a lot of sense -
if
you're a liberal cut-and-run type. If it were up to people like you,
we
never would have fought - and defeated - Germany, Japan and the Soviet
Union, and dictatorships around the world would be the order of the
day.

We'll both get our chance to vote come November. You can vote for
socialism, I'm voting for freedom.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

So you believe we should just sit back and wait to be attacked in this age
of terrorism? We are allowed to respond only *after* terrorists have
targeted and killed innocent civilians? Why are you in sympathy with people
who purposely target innocent civilians? Perhaps the distinction escapes
you? Terrorists attack civilians - we attack terrorists.

The answer is, and you won't like this because of your childish view of the
world, we kill as many terrorists as it takes, and as you so inarticulately
put it, we "pre-emptive" as many countries as it takes, to protect our
country and its citizens.
In the eyes of God we are all equal, but here on earth I'd say one American
life is worth at least a thousand terrorists. I'd certainly kill a thousand
terrorists, or more, if that's what it took to save one American life, even
yours.

"Gary" wrote in message
...
how many people do we kill and how many countries do we "pre-emptive"?
is this how you teach? "pre-emptive" diplomacy lol

Tim, I come down on your side. All the way.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"tim chandler" wrote in message
...
So you believe we should just sit back and wait to be attacked in this age
of terrorism? We are allowed to respond only *after* terrorists have
targeted and killed innocent civilians? Why are you in sympathy with
people
who purposely target innocent civilians? Perhaps the distinction escapes
you? Terrorists attack civilians - we attack terrorists.

The answer is, and you won't like this because of your childish view of
the
world, we kill as many terrorists as it takes, and as you so
inarticulately
put it, we "pre-emptive" as many countries as it takes, to protect our
country and its citizens.
In the eyes of God we are all equal, but here on earth I'd say one
American
life is worth at least a thousand terrorists. I'd certainly kill a
thousand
terrorists, or more, if that's what it took to save one American life,
even
yours.

"Gary" wrote in message
...
how many people do we kill and how many countries do we "pre-emptive"?
is this how you teach? "pre-emptive" diplomacy lol

Tim, I come down on your side. All the way.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"tim chandler" wrote in message
...
So you believe we should just sit back and wait to be attacked in this age
of terrorism? We are allowed to respond only *after* terrorists have
targeted and killed innocent civilians? Why are you in sympathy with
people
who purposely target innocent civilians? Perhaps the distinction escapes
you? Terrorists attack civilians - we attack terrorists.

The answer is, and you won't like this because of your childish view of
the
world, we kill as many terrorists as it takes, and as you so
inarticulately
put it, we "pre-emptive" as many countries as it takes, to protect our
country and its citizens.
In the eyes of God we are all equal, but here on earth I'd say one
American
life is worth at least a thousand terrorists. I'd certainly kill a
thousand
terrorists, or more, if that's what it took to save one American life,
even
yours.

"Gary" wrote in message
...
how many people do we kill and how many countries do we "pre-emptive"?
is this how you teach? "pre-emptive" diplomacy lol

Ohhhh No! Not the old Republican vs. Democrat argument! This can never
Ever be
settled. It has been going on since the inception of the United States.
Although granted the Republican party really isn't that old... its agruments
are.

sigh .... let's just agree to disagree... okay?

Nedra


"Nedra" wrote in message
ink.net...
Tim, I come down on your side. All the way.

Nedra
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Pines/4836
http://community.webshots.com/user/nedra118

"tim chandler" wrote in message
...
So you believe we should just sit back and wait to be attacked in this
age
of terrorism? We are allowed to respond only *after* terrorists have
targeted and killed innocent civilians? Why are you in sympathy with
people
who purposely target innocent civilians? Perhaps the distinction
escapes
you? Terrorists attack civilians - we attack terrorists.

The answer is, and you won't like this because of your childish view of
the
world, we kill as many terrorists as it takes, and as you so
inarticulately
put it, we "pre-emptive" as many countries as it takes, to protect our
country and its citizens.
In the eyes of God we are all equal, but here on earth I'd say one
American
life is worth at least a thousand terrorists. I'd certainly kill a
thousand
terrorists, or more, if that's what it took to save one American life,
even
yours.

"Gary" wrote in message
...
how many people do we kill and how many countries do we "pre-emptive"?
is this how you teach? "pre-emptive" diplomacy lol

how many thousands did we slaughter with carpet bombing? how many generations of
children have been poisoned by agent orange? I thought I read that Viet Nam was
bringing charges of war crimes in against the chemical companies making agent orange.

Ingrid

"tim chandler" wrote:

Yes, I know you care little to nothing about the hundreds of thousands
slaughtered by the North Vietnamese when they finally took over the South.
It was a good cause and a just war, and I honor the memory of my fallen
comrades. They, like me, believed in opposing evil and not just turning
away from it.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

you dont seem to understand that terrorism is for the most part an idea, not a state.
We cannot win against the idea unless we provide a better idea, democracy. And we
cant provide that idea by bombing the shit out of innocent people to get to the
terrorists living next door.
READ THE 9/11 REPORT!!!!


"tim chandler" wrote:
So you believe we should just sit back and wait to be attacked in this age
of terrorism?


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.