yes, correct. must check pH after 24 hours of air bubbling thru it.
what IS your hardness?
does your city put sodium hydroxide, NaOH into your water to protect the pipes?
have you tried dripping dilute hydrochloric acid (HCl aka muriatic acid) into your
pond to bring the pH down?
Ingrid

"Happy'Cam'per" wrote:

Gabrielle

I'm no master gardener but I have another suggestion:
Maybe your ph out of the tap IS 9. You must realise that when the water is
fresh out the tap it contains higher levels of co2, once the co2 gasses out
your ph rises to its natural value. Put some tap water in a bucket, let it
stand for a day or 2 and then test it, if its still 7 or near about that
then you definitely know that its something leeching from your pond that is
causing the rise in ph.
This is quite confusing is'nt it? Not to worry, I'm sure the Porgers will
have you sorted in no time. Patience, don't get yourself frustrated, don't
make too many more changes or else the fish and turtles might get freaked
out, for the time being they'll be fine in the high ph!

I read in Diana Walstads book that some types of algae can raise the ph due
to certain processes, I'll dig it up and post it here for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

yes, correct. must check pH after 24 hours of air bubbling thru it.
what IS your hardness?
does your city put sodium hydroxide, NaOH into your water to protect the pipes?
have you tried dripping dilute hydrochloric acid (HCl aka muriatic acid) into your
pond to bring the pH down?
Ingrid

"Happy'Cam'per" wrote:

Gabrielle

I'm no master gardener but I have another suggestion:
Maybe your ph out of the tap IS 9. You must realise that when the water is
fresh out the tap it contains higher levels of co2, once the co2 gasses out
your ph rises to its natural value. Put some tap water in a bucket, let it
stand for a day or 2 and then test it, if its still 7 or near about that
then you definitely know that its something leeching from your pond that is
causing the rise in ph.
This is quite confusing is'nt it? Not to worry, I'm sure the Porgers will
have you sorted in no time. Patience, don't get yourself frustrated, don't
make too many more changes or else the fish and turtles might get freaked
out, for the time being they'll be fine in the high ph!

I read in Diana Walstads book that some types of algae can raise the ph due
to certain processes, I'll dig it up and post it here for you.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

You tried putting in 4lbs of baking soda per 1000 gallons, then water
changes every other day of 10-15%? Massive water changes all at once are
not recommended, nor work. ~ jan


On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:35:27 -0700, Gabrielle wrote:

No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

You tried putting in 4lbs of baking soda per 1000 gallons, then water
changes every other day of 10-15%? Massive water changes all at once are
not recommended, nor work. ~ jan


On Mon, 20 Sep 2004 20:35:27 -0700, Gabrielle wrote:

No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles

~Power to the Porg, Flow On!~

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

I read in Diana Walstads book that some types of algae can raise the ph
due to certain processes, I'll dig it up and post it here for you.

I remember a Florida pondkeeper saying that happened, too, but at the time
we couldn't find a good reason for it. Some plants (eg, hornwort) suck up
calcium, and will strip the buffer, which could tend to result in your pH
_dropping_, but I don't know what would raise it.

"Gabrielle" wrote in message
...
No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles

The first thing you should do is _nothing_. Never, _ever_, add pH Down.
All you have done is stripped the natural buffer from your pond and made it
impossible to control the pH. Trying to change pH has harmed far more fish
than one extreme or the other. Definitely, don't do "massive" water
changes to bring it down. When it does start to climb, read the pH in the
morning, evening, and following morning. Did it get higher overnight? I
suspect not.

Then, add a good buffer - lots of it. Limestone chips, crushed coral,
anything that will add a good source of carbonate. That will tend to bring
your pH around 8 to 8.4 - whether it's currently above or below that. 7 is
way too low - it probably won't harm anything, but it's not maintainable
without a lot of work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 8.4.

You're right, though, that some plants don't do well in the higher pH, but
you really have get your pH stable before you can worry about that.
--
derek

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

I read in Diana Walstads book that some types of algae can raise the ph
due to certain processes, I'll dig it up and post it here for you.

I remember a Florida pondkeeper saying that happened, too, but at the time
we couldn't find a good reason for it. Some plants (eg, hornwort) suck up
calcium, and will strip the buffer, which could tend to result in your pH
_dropping_, but I don't know what would raise it.

"Gabrielle" wrote in message
...
No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles

The first thing you should do is _nothing_. Never, _ever_, add pH Down.
All you have done is stripped the natural buffer from your pond and made it
impossible to control the pH. Trying to change pH has harmed far more fish
than one extreme or the other. Definitely, don't do "massive" water
changes to bring it down. When it does start to climb, read the pH in the
morning, evening, and following morning. Did it get higher overnight? I
suspect not.

Then, add a good buffer - lots of it. Limestone chips, crushed coral,
anything that will add a good source of carbonate. That will tend to bring
your pH around 8 to 8.4 - whether it's currently above or below that. 7 is
way too low - it probably won't harm anything, but it's not maintainable
without a lot of work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 8.4.

You're right, though, that some plants don't do well in the higher pH, but
you really have get your pH stable before you can worry about that.
--
derek

Happy'Cam'per wrote:

I read in Diana Walstads book that some types of algae can raise the ph
due to certain processes, I'll dig it up and post it here for you.

I remember a Florida pondkeeper saying that happened, too, but at the time
we couldn't find a good reason for it. Some plants (eg, hornwort) suck up
calcium, and will strip the buffer, which could tend to result in your pH
_dropping_, but I don't know what would raise it.

"Gabrielle" wrote in message
...
No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles

The first thing you should do is _nothing_. Never, _ever_, add pH Down.
All you have done is stripped the natural buffer from your pond and made it
impossible to control the pH. Trying to change pH has harmed far more fish
than one extreme or the other. Definitely, don't do "massive" water
changes to bring it down. When it does start to climb, read the pH in the
morning, evening, and following morning. Did it get higher overnight? I
suspect not.

Then, add a good buffer - lots of it. Limestone chips, crushed coral,
anything that will add a good source of carbonate. That will tend to bring
your pH around 8 to 8.4 - whether it's currently above or below that. 7 is
way too low - it probably won't harm anything, but it's not maintainable
without a lot of work. There's absolutely nothing wrong with 8.4.

You're right, though, that some plants don't do well in the higher pH, but
you really have get your pH stable before you can worry about that.
--
derek

While there are other possibilites, the algae bloom in your pond may
be accountable for the high pH. Check the pH at different times of
day (e.g. early moring and mid-afternoon). If the pH is relatively
low early in the morning, but high in the afternoon, read on. If it
is continually high, this post probably does not apply to your
situation.

In general, pH reflects the balance between carbon compounds (free
carbon dioxide, and dissociated carbonic acid, carbonate, and
bicarbonate) occuring in water. When higher quantities of carbon
dioxide or carbonic acid are present, pH tends to be lower; when
higher quantities of carbonates and bicarbonates are present, pH tends
to be higher.

Most green things undergo photosynthesis, and the process of
photosynthesis requires carbon. In aquatic systems, plants and algae
take up the most useable form of carbon, CO2. This reduction in
carbon dioxide results in greater relative quantities of carbonates
(and bicarbonates), causing an upward shift in pH. Because
photosynthesis occurs when the sun shines, this upward shift occurs
during the day. If a carbon dioxide source is present (decomposition
of organic materials, aeration, dissociation of carbonates, etc.), pH
will usually fall during the night. A 24-hour cycle of low pH to high
pH is typical in freshwater ponds and lakes.

When the (pH) buffering capacity (more or less the alkalinity) of
water is low, pH shifts due to photosynthesis tend to be great, and
can be dangerous to aquatic animals and plants, even those plants (or
algae) responsible for the drastic shifts . When the buffering
capacity is high, the pH shifts are usually less drastic, and there is
much less stress for aquatic organisms. Raising and maintaining the
alkalinity in a backyard pond is the best approach to reducing the
severity of pH shifts. Because this tactic usually involves adding
some form of carbonate (calcium carbonate the most common), the pH
will settle at around 8.3 when the pond has adequate quantities in
solution (note: some aquatic plants do not thrive at this pH, and must
be given additional consideration).



Gabrielle wrote:

No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles

While there are other possibilites, the algae bloom in your pond may
be accountable for the high pH. Check the pH at different times of
day (e.g. early moring and mid-afternoon). If the pH is relatively
low early in the morning, but high in the afternoon, read on. If it
is continually high, this post probably does not apply to your
situation.

In general, pH reflects the balance between carbon compounds (free
carbon dioxide, and dissociated carbonic acid, carbonate, and
bicarbonate) occuring in water. When higher quantities of carbon
dioxide or carbonic acid are present, pH tends to be lower; when
higher quantities of carbonates and bicarbonates are present, pH tends
to be higher.

Most green things undergo photosynthesis, and the process of
photosynthesis requires carbon. In aquatic systems, plants and algae
take up the most useable form of carbon, CO2. This reduction in
carbon dioxide results in greater relative quantities of carbonates
(and bicarbonates), causing an upward shift in pH. Because
photosynthesis occurs when the sun shines, this upward shift occurs
during the day. If a carbon dioxide source is present (decomposition
of organic materials, aeration, dissociation of carbonates, etc.), pH
will usually fall during the night. A 24-hour cycle of low pH to high
pH is typical in freshwater ponds and lakes.

When the (pH) buffering capacity (more or less the alkalinity) of
water is low, pH shifts due to photosynthesis tend to be great, and
can be dangerous to aquatic animals and plants, even those plants (or
algae) responsible for the drastic shifts . When the buffering
capacity is high, the pH shifts are usually less drastic, and there is
much less stress for aquatic organisms. Raising and maintaining the
alkalinity in a backyard pond is the best approach to reducing the
severity of pH shifts. Because this tactic usually involves adding
some form of carbonate (calcium carbonate the most common), the pH
will settle at around 8.3 when the pond has adequate quantities in
solution (note: some aquatic plants do not thrive at this pH, and must
be given additional consideration).



Gabrielle wrote:

No matter what I do, the pH keeps zooming up, even though the water is
slightly acidic when it comes out of the tap. I've done massive water
changes which bring the pH down to about 7, but then it hits 8 within 24
hours and goes to 9 by day 3. I've put pieces of the log and rock in
glass dishes with tap water and can't replicate the pH change. The algae
is going wild and the plants are dying, except the parrots feather which
is simply not thriving. Could evaporation have an effect here? I'm in
southwestern Arizona and it is hot & dry.

Gabrielle, disgusted and worried about the fish and turtles