"Courageous" wrote in message
...

OK, mine start to yellow when they run out of nutrients. A heaping Tbs.
Potash per 1000 gallons always greens them up nicely.

Good advice, I think. Another alternative would be any nitrate free
phosphate free "pond fertilizer". Probably more expensive, though.
/which/ potash, by the way?
==================
Muriate of Potash. I also use Ironite in the plants potting soil and I'm
sure some of that leaks out into the water. I also toss a few handfuls of
Ironite into the propagation tanks. It's granular.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/crtso
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

** From the bad experiences I've seen and heard about with concrete ponds
I'm totally discouraged. Besides then we have another huge expense of
hiring professions to mix the concrete and somehow get it to stick to the
rubber liner. Neither myself or my husband have ever worked with concrete.

You don't have to have, but you'll have to read up on it. If you went the
underlayment-under-the-cement route, you won't have to do a single pour.
You can hand pack

Eventually it will crack and bits will start to disintegrate under the
water. Water will get behind/between the concrete and liner since sealing
concrete 100% waterproof is almost impossible. I would have to see one done
this way a few years (where it freezes in winter) before, to give me some
confidence in putting concrete over rubber.

A good reason for worry. Here in San Diego -- no freezing.

** To get rid of the alkalinity from the concrete.

No I meant the expense. But I see you're on a fairly strict budget.
Okee dokey.

** That's true but the liner wont *GROW* to fit a bigger hole unless the
concrete was on the OUTSIDE. Remember now, I'm retired and my husband is
semi-retired so our funds are not unlimited anymore. We would have to hire
someone to do this concrete work and quite honestly I don't think we could
afford it.

No, I'm doing a big pond, and I won't afford that either. For one thing,
you should never hire a concrete guy for this stuff, but rather a pond
guy, and they often charge about treble for the same job. Artisans --
they always want more. Go figger.

Anyway, how about "plan B".

Consider the cheapest pre form blocks around: cinder block.

Stair step them, and fill the holes with earth for weight.

Put the liner over the stairs.

Put big rocks on the stairs above the liner, padding between the rocks
and the liner to prevent punctures.

Go check your local land scape supply / rock yard (not home depot, they
overcharge for stuff like this by as much as 100%) for prices on the
cinderblock. Might be less than you think $$.

Another alternative would be to get a truck and hand collect stones
of a size that you and your husband can handle, possibly with the
assistance of some day labor -- if your region has such stuff in
legally collectible areas of course.

C//

What an attempt by Carol to get somebody to respond to her. tsk tsk tsk.

"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

OK, mine start to yellow when they run out of nutrients. A heaping Tbs.
Potash per 1000 gallons always greens them up nicely. We get hail here but
it doesn't yellow them, just tears up the leaves. They do best in water
with 10-10-10 fertilizer but then the water greens up as well. I don't use
10-10-10 in my ponds but do in the propagation tanks.

My propagation tanks just had the water hyacinths and well water.
Nothing else. There were yellow all winter until the water got hot. In
the winter it can get down to 40F and the water hyacinths just sit there
and look sick. My propagation tanks are in a greenhouse so the water
gets up to about 80F in the spring. When this happens the water
hyacinth start growing and get very green. They stay green in the pond
which isn't fertilized either. It is spring fed and has golden shinner
minnows. However, I have lots of marginal plants and oxygenators to
keep the nutrients in check. No fertilizer.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

"Stephen Henning" wrote in message
news
"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

OK, mine start to yellow when they run out of nutrients. A heaping Tbs.
Potash per 1000 gallons always greens them up nicely. We get hail here
but
it doesn't yellow them, just tears up the leaves. They do best in water
with 10-10-10 fertilizer but then the water greens up as well. I don't
use
10-10-10 in my ponds but do in the propagation tanks.

My propagation tanks just had the water hyacinths and well water.
Nothing else. There were yellow all winter until the water got hot. In
the winter it can get down to 40F and the water hyacinths just sit there
and look sick.
My propagation tanks are in a greenhouse so the water
gets up to about 80F in the spring. When this happens the water
hyacinth start growing and get very green. They stay green in the pond
which isn't fertilized either. It is spring fed and has golden shinner
minnows. However, I have lots of marginal plants and oxygenators to
keep the nutrients in check. No fertilizer.
=============================
They're getting their "fertilizer" from somewhere, either from the shiners
or from the well water.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
My Pond Page http://tinyurl.com/crtso
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

## I don't know of any "landscape supply" places here.

Check your phone book. These are the "rock yard" style places that
have big ten foot wide bins of stuff. Usually contractors go there,
but all these places are open to the public.

Don't know what to tell you on the labor. I can't think of any
permanent solutions that don't involve some hefty lifting, and
probably digging.

C//

Probably I shouldn;t have done it and may be very sorry, but----
This morning I went out and bought six water hyacinth. They will add some
shade and reduce the oxygen and maybe, just maybe, I will be free of all
that algae.

During the day, the water hyacinth will add, not reduce, oxygen to your
pond. At night, they may use it up, particularly if your pond is over
populated with it. One way to ameliorate this would be to make sure that
the water is properly circulated at night. Bottom to top, destratified
somehow, perhaps run through a waterfall if that's not too noisy.

If your pond is small, you won't have a problem with the WH, as long as
you cull them once in when. Actually, this is good, because the WH will
concentrate wastes in a form you can easily access. Toss it in your
compost heap.

If your pond is a large natural one, you may be very, very sorry.

Here's what can happen:

http://tncweeds.ucdavis.edu/photos/eiccr04.jpg

C//

Check your phone book. These are the "rock yard" style places that
have big ten foot wide bins of stuff. Usually contractors go there,
but all these places are open to the public.

One other thing:

Plastic. Cement. Is. Not. Concrete.

It cures differently, doesn't crack nearly so easily, can be manipulated
casually, and so forth. It's often sold as a sealant (e.g., Thoroseal).
And generally can be found in very low PH formulas.

C//

starting to get a bit yellowish in color. Maybe due to the hail we have
been getting.

IIRC, they're only really invasive in states that don't freeze much.

C//

OK, mine start to yellow when they run out of nutrients. A heaping Tbs.
Potash per 1000 gallons always greens them up nicely.

Good advice, I think. Another alternative would be any nitrate free
phosphate free "pond fertilizer". Probably more expensive, though.
/which/ potash, by the way?

C//