The kind of algae I have is large and fluffy. Not the string kind or the
fine floating stuff that turns the water green.

Been running the waterfall with filter and skimmer for two days now and most
of the surface algae is gone but there is still plenty down under. The
little fish seem to hang out in the algae and I hate to skim it out with a
net.

While I'm here might as well bring this up. When I bought my waterfall
equipment my pump was a waterfall pump with an outlet of about 1-1/4 inch.
The brilliant person who set up the pond said that pump would never do and
sold me a pump with about a two-inch outlet which screws into a two-inch
corrogated pipe that goes up to the waterfall.

The pond person said that the waterfall pump could not deliver enough water.
I have discovered that this "expert" really doesn't know much about setting
up a pond or doesn't care what kind of a job he does.

I would like to try my original pondmaster waterfall pump (that is supposed
to deliver more than 3000 gallons an hour) but can I get an adapter that
would allow my to connect it to the 2-inch pipe?

I have spent an awful lot of time trying redo the result of the "experts"
expertise, like building up low spots around the perimeter where the water
leaks out. I've got to figure out a way to lever up one side of the
waterfall rock so all the water doesn't flow to one side. I will just have
to leave the rocks lining the inside of the pond unless I can hire someone
to do it for me.

Regrettably I am getting too old for a lot of work I could once do with
ease.

Is there an adapter that will go from 1-1/4 inch to 2"inch?

Nuff said (or too much said) for now.

Thank you all so much. What would I do without you??

Pixi

A temporary solution, that you could do right now, would be to toss in
a bunch of calcium bentonite clay, while your system is circulating.
You should be able to find this at any koi supply place. Don't be afraid
to use treble or quadruple what they recommmend. Expect muddy water for
a day or so, nothing wrong, to be expected. Then everything should clear
up, see all the way to the bottom type of stuff.

What does the bentonite clay do???

Calcium bentonite is similar to the ingredenients of kitty litter.
It's both absorbant and charged. Suck. Zap. Everything dissolved in
the water, now in the bentonite. As a bonus, it also releases trace
minerals into the water, that the koi like. Google for it.

C//

"pixi" wrote in message
...
The pond person said that the waterfall pump could not deliver enough
water.
I have discovered that this "expert" really doesn't know much about
setting
up a pond or doesn't care what kind of a job he does.
========================
You're going to discover that a lot of so called "experts" know little more
than the average Joe out there. And also consider that something that'll
work for one person will not work for another. We have to redo 3 sides of
my 2000 gallon pond this summer because they were made too steep! The guy
said it would help keep predators out of the pond. YEAH RIGHT! He didn't
mention that the pressure from the surrounding soil would eventually allow
the sides to "fall in." And that's what's happening. It should have been
dug more bowl shape to let the water pressure and weight keep that from
happening.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Courageous" wrote in message
...

work for one person will not work for another. We have to redo 3 sides
of
my 2000 gallon pond this summer because they were made too steep! The
guy
said it would help keep predators out of the pond. YEAH RIGHT! He
didn't
mention that the pressure from the surrounding soil would eventually
allow
the sides to "fall in."

Huh. Your pond is a liner pond, yes?

$$ Yes. A Tetra 60 mil liner.

In this situation, these are choices:

1. Concrete the pond, over the liner, or:

$$ I think concrete BEHIND the liner may work better.

2. Create a masonry retaining wall for the pond
under the liner, to prevent the caving in.

$$ We've considered that.

With heavy blocks, ala Keystone, no mortar is necessary.

$$ The blocks would be costly for such a large pond. We're considering
making it bowl shape like it should have been done the first time. We have
to empty it, peel back the liner and start to remove some soil to "bowl"
shape it. The fish will stay in the 2000 gallon plastic pool we just
purchased last week.

He was, at least, right about a bit of predator prevention.

$$ It didn't do a damn thing to prevent the herons, Kingfishers, snakes,
bullfrogs and snappers from entering the pond pre-netting days. The herons
would stand on the rock necklace and wait for a fish to swim by.... bye bye
fish! The rest of the predators just jumped right in and started feasting.
They couldn't care less how steep the sides were.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

We have to redo 3 sides of
my 2000 gallon pond this summer because they were made too steep! The guy
said it would help keep predators out of the pond. YEAH RIGHT! He didn't
mention that the pressure from the surrounding soil would eventually allow
the sides to "fall in." And that's what's happening. It should have been
dug more bowl shape to let the water pressure and weight keep that from
happening.

Your "expert" was correct. You need to make the sides steep to prevent
predators from having a picnic in the pond. What he didn't do was build
up a vertical wall out of cement blocks at the periphery and then build
the steep slope out of something that wouldn't shift. Also, don't
forget shelves around the edge for marginal plants.

It sounds like you don't have very good drainage around your pond. That
is a big problem and needs to be addressed. Most ponds don't do well in
a bog area unless they have masonry retaining walls.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

Stephen Henning wrote:

"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

We have to redo 3 sides of
my 2000 gallon pond this summer because they were made too steep! The
guy
said it would help keep predators out of the pond. YEAH RIGHT! He
didn't mention that the pressure from the surrounding soil would
eventually allow
the sides to "fall in." And that's what's happening. It should have
been dug more bowl shape to let the water pressure and weight keep that
from happening.

Your "expert" was correct. You need to make the sides steep to prevent
predators from having a picnic in the pond. What he didn't do was build
up a vertical wall out of cement blocks at the periphery and then build
the steep slope out of something that wouldn't shift. Also, don't
forget shelves around the edge for marginal plants.

A lot of people don't like those. There won't be any on my next pond.

It sounds like you don't have very good drainage around your pond. That
is a big problem and needs to be addressed. Most ponds don't do well in
a bog area unless they have masonry retaining walls.

Yes. It's not pressure from the surrounding _soil_ that will cause
slumping. I built a pond in sandy soil, very well drained, with almost
vertical sides down to 5 feet. No problem with collapsing. The pressure
from the water will easily hold that in place. If you've got water on both
sides, though, there's no pressure differential.
--
derek

I would like to try my original pondmaster waterfall pump (that is supposed
to deliver more than 3000 gallons an hour) but can I get an adapter that
would allow my to connect it to the 2-inch pipe?

Yes. It's called a "reducer". Go to home depot plumbing section.

Is there an adapter that will go from 1-1/4 inch to 2"inch?

Yes:

Item# 26020 at http://www.usplastic.com

Click: Pipe & Fittings - PVC Pipe & Fittings - PVC Fittings -
PVC Reducing Fittings.

C//

"Stephen Henning" wrote in message
news
"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

We have to redo 3 sides of
my 2000 gallon pond this summer because they were made too steep! The
guy
said it would help keep predators out of the pond. YEAH RIGHT! He
didn't
mention that the pressure from the surrounding soil would eventually
allow
the sides to "fall in." And that's what's happening. It should have
been
dug more bowl shape to let the water pressure and weight keep that from
happening.
===========
Your "expert" was correct. You need to make the sides steep to prevent
predators from having a picnic in the pond.

## The steep walls did not keep out the predators in our area. We live in a
rural area near a huge lake surrounded by Gov. land. It abounds with all
kinds of wildlife. We were losing fish faster than we could replace them.
Steep walls do nothing but keep out cranes and coons. Cranes aren't a large
problem in home ponds where I live and the dogs discouraged any coons from
coming near the house.

What he didn't do was build
up a vertical wall out of cement blocks at the periphery and then build
the steep slope out of something that wouldn't shift. Also, don't
forget shelves around the edge for marginal plants.

## Yes, he left shelves around 3 sides.

It sounds like you don't have very good drainage around your pond. That
is a big problem and needs to be addressed.

## Actually the drainage is excellent as the pond is on a gentle slope and
rain runs off. The soil here, a fine red clay, gets like mustard when it's
wet. The smaller pond is now bowl shape and so far so good.

Most ponds don't do well in
a bog area unless they have masonry retaining walls.

## I WISH I had a bog area! :-)
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Derek Broughton" wrote in message
...
Stephen Henning wrote:

"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

We have to redo 3 sides of
my 2000 gallon pond this summer because they were made too steep! The
guy
said it would help keep predators out of the pond. YEAH RIGHT! He
didn't mention that the pressure from the surrounding soil would
eventually allow
the sides to "fall in." And that's what's happening. It should have
been dug more bowl shape to let the water pressure and weight keep that
from happening.

Your "expert" was correct. You need to make the sides steep to prevent
predators from having a picnic in the pond. What he didn't do was build
up a vertical wall out of cement blocks at the periphery and then build
the steep slope out of something that wouldn't shift. Also, don't
forget shelves around the edge for marginal plants.

A lot of people don't like those. There won't be any on my next pond.

## Will you set your plants on something or eliminate them altogether?

It sounds like you don't have very good drainage around your pond. That
is a big problem and needs to be addressed. Most ponds don't do well in
a bog area unless they have masonry retaining walls.

Yes. It's not pressure from the surrounding _soil_ that will cause
slumping. I built a pond in sandy soil, very well drained, with almost
vertical sides down to 5 feet. No problem with collapsing. The pressure
from the water will easily hold that in place. If you've got water on
both
sides, though, there's no pressure differential.

## My ponds are not in a bog area and the surrounding soil is not water
logged. They're on a gentle slope. All water runs down the slope, through
a sluice pipe and to the nearby lake. What could be causing the sides to
belly in?
--
derek
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Courageous" wrote in message
...

$$ I think concrete BEHIND the liner may work better.

Why?

C//
========================
I don't want to be scooping up chips and chunks of concrete when the soil
shifts and the uneven pressure cracks it. I can't see using rebar or
chicken wire OVER the liner to help stabilize the concrete. Also, the
alkalinity problems caused by concrete. My water is 7.2 out of the tap and
goes higher after about 12 hours. The "bowl" shape is working well with the
smaller pond. There's nothing behind it's sloping walls to stabilize it.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Courageous" wrote in message
news

I don't want to be scooping up chips and chunks of concrete when the soil
shifts and the uneven pressure cracks it. I can't see using rebar or
chicken wire OVER the liner to help stabilize the concrete.

You can use the wire. Check http://www.wetwebmedia.com. Bob Fenner, who
runs the place, operated a pond business for years here using just this
technique.

## I'll check this site out - thanks! :-)

Still, I don't see any real problem with putting the liner over the
concrete
if you're so inclined. You might ask Bob what he thinks of that; he
answers questions very quickly.

Also, the alkalinity problems caused by concrete

You use a plastic cement; even then you have to cure the pond. Often
one runs vinegar through it for a while.

## Run vinegar through it? Wouldn't that be impractical in a 2000 gallon
pond? I know my husband wants it fixed where the "fix" is permanent. It's
too expensive to fill and rinse a few times should concrete be on the
inside. Also, concrete would take up space and leave the gallonage less
than 2000. We can rinse it and use the shop vac to remove the rinse water
but refilling it a few times is out (to flush away the alk' from the
concrete). We haven't discussed just what action we're going to take. I
dread this undertaking.... :-(

C//
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

Derek Broughton wrote:

If you've got water on both
sides, though, there's no pressure differential.

You would think so, but if you take a shovel full and throw it in the
pond, it will sink to the bottom, so it is heavier, but heavier. Sandy
or muddy soil will always slump since it is heavier than water.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

"Reel Mckoi" wrote:

## The steep walls did not keep out the predators in our area. We live in a
rural area near a huge lake surrounded by Gov. land. It abounds with all
kinds of wildlife. We were losing fish faster than we could replace them.
Steep walls do nothing but keep out cranes and coons. Cranes aren't a large
problem in home ponds where I live and the dogs discouraged any coons from
coming near the house.

What he didn't do was build
up a vertical wall out of cement blocks at the periphery and then build
the steep slope out of something that wouldn't shift. Also, don't
forget shelves around the edge for marginal plants.

## Yes, he left shelves around 3 sides.

The other thing that protects your fish from varmits is plants around
the periphery. It gives the fish places to hide.
--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
18,000 gallon (17'x 47'x 2-4') lily pond garden in Zone 6
Cheers, Steve Henning in Reading, PA USA

"Stephen Henning" wrote in message
news
"Reel Mckoi" wrote:
## Yes, he left shelves around 3 sides.

The other thing that protects your fish from varmits is plants around
the periphery. It gives the fish places to hide.
============================
That didn't work for us either. Both ponds had and mostly still have mixed
plants around 3 sides plus water lilies. We still lost fish and it was
getting expensive not to mention heart breaking - especially when your
favorite hand tame koi is found half eaten one morning. We also had things
for them to hide in and under in the water. Large pipes etc. They still
vanished. We used snake repellent sulfur around the ponds - a waste of
money, the fish still went missing whole or were found in pieces. We saw
large black snakes crawl right over the repellent. We used the fishing
line, criss crossed everywhere. No dice... frogs and snakes went right
through it and herons learned to hop over and around it and sit on the plant
pots to fish. All it did was slow them down a little. We used fake owls
and snakes. The fish still disappeared. I tried leaving a radio on 24/7
out there .... that was a waste of time. Finally the day my beautiful
yellow transparent butterfly koi, my favorite koi, vanished - my husband got
in the car and went to ACE Hardware for nets. We haven't lost a fish to
preditors since. That was about 5 years ago.
--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o

"Courageous" wrote in message
...

I don't want to be scooping up chips and chunks of concrete when the
soil

## Run vinegar through it? Wouldn't that be impractical in a 2000
gallon
pond?

No, but you don't use 100% vinegar. The point is to get the PH of the
water
down to as low as you can get it. You can also cure the outside of the
concrete
with muriatic acid.

** From the bad experiences I've seen and heard about with concrete ponds
I'm totally discouraged. Besides then we have another huge expense of
hiring professions to mix the concrete and somehow get it to stick to the
rubber liner. Neither myself or my husband have ever worked with concrete.
Eventually it will crack and bits will start to disintegrate under the
water. Water will get behind/between the concrete and liner since sealing
concrete 100% waterproof is almost impossible. I would have to see one done
this way a few years (where it freezes in winter) before, to give me some
confidence in putting concrete over rubber. It freezes here in winter and
that's when people start talking about problems with concrete ponds. The
rubber will give - the concrete will not, so it cracks.

I know my husband wants it fixed where the "fix" is permanent. It's
too expensive to fill and rinse a few times should concrete be on the
inside.

Eh?

** To get rid of the alkalinity from the concrete.

Also, concrete would take up space and leave the gallonage less
than 2000.

You can dig more.

** That's true but the liner wont *GROW* to fit a bigger hole unless the
concrete was on the OUTSIDE. Remember now, I'm retired and my husband is
semi-retired so our funds are not unlimited anymore. We would have to hire
someone to do this concrete work and quite honestly I don't think we could
afford it.

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o