Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old 09-08-2003, 03:34 PM
Mark. Gooley
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

"Moderately fragrant" or "lightly fragrant." In my experience, that
means "fragrance just perceptible" all too often, though I've been
pleasantly surprised. (And, of course, fragrance varies with
conditions: climate, soil, etc.) I have an unusually sensitive nose,
and if I can barely detect a smell from a "moderately fragrant" rose,
I've very disappointed.

"For those who prefer a smaller rose[bush]." Okay, if you like
miniatures or if you have a small garden, that's a selling point.
I'm fortunate enough to have room, and I want BIG rosebushes.
Temperatures rarely go under 20F here in the winter (zone 8b),
which helps roses get big, but the assumption that I actually
prefer itty-bitty bushes or "ramblers" that can barely hit 10 feet
annoys the heck out of me. I realize that there's more money in
3-foot bushes and 10-foot climbers, as most people don't have
a whole lot of room. A few of the Austins get big in warm
climates, but few if any breeders seem to be producing tall shrubs
or massive climbers on purpose, as an aim of a breeding program.

Heirloom Roses (www.heirloomroses.com) does have a few
roses classed under "Ramblers" that are fairly recent, fairly big,
and in some cases remontant: this is encouraging. I know nothing
of them apart from the catalog descriptions, but Cherries Jubilee
(red, once-bloomer, 14 ft.), Christmas Snow (white, once but long
season, 14 ft., and that damned "lightly fragrant" again), the
German-bred Super Dorothy and Super Excelsa (12 ft., but
remontant), and some of their others might be worth a try.

It's probably foolish of me to expect any recent introductions to
be huge plants, remontant, and strongly scented. No doubt a
reliable repeat bloom means that the plant has less energy to
grow large, for one thing. But if anyone knows of such roses,
do let me know. At least there are the older varieties out there.

Mark.




  #2   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2003, 10:22 PM
Unique Too
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

"Mark. Gooley" writes:

"For those who prefer a smaller rose[bush]." Okay, if you like
miniatures or if you have a small garden, that's a selling point.
I'm fortunate enough to have room, and I want BIG rosebushes.


I have a small lot, but I really like the BIG plants. Of the 50 or so roses I
have, only 10 are less than 3 X 3 and that includes four miniatures.

What I'm missing from your post is why. Why do you want recent introductions
when there are so many oldies but goodies out there? I ran out of room long
before I aquired all the ones that fit your requirements of "huge plants,
remontant, and strongly scented."

Temperatures rarely go under 20F here in the winter (zone 8b),
which helps roses get big, but the assumption that I actually
prefer itty-bitty bushes or "ramblers" that can barely hit 10 feet
annoys the heck out of me. I realize that there's more money in
3-foot bushes and 10-foot climbers, as most people don't have
a whole lot of room. A few of the Austins get big in warm
climates, but few if any breeders seem to be producing tall shrubs
or massive climbers on purpose, as an aim of a breeding program.


John Starnes in Tampa is working towards breeding larger ramblers that will do
well here on their own roots. He would like to create roses that grow here
without all the attention required of many modern roses. I checked HMF and so
far the only rose listed under his name is one that he found, not any from his
breeding program. If you're interested I can send you his email, but I'd
prefer to not post it on this forum.

Julie

  #3   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:05 AM
Mark. Gooley
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves


"Unique Too" wrote:
"Mark. Gooley" writes:

"For those who prefer a smaller rose[bush]." Okay, if you like
miniatures or if you have a small garden, that's a selling point.
I'm fortunate enough to have room, and I want BIG rosebushes.


I have a small lot, but I really like the BIG plants. Of the 50 or
so roses I have, only 10 are less than 3 X 3 and that includes
four miniatures.

What I'm missing from your post is why. Why do you want
recent introductions when there are so many oldies but goodies
out there? I ran out of room long before I aquired all the ones
that fit your requirements of "huge plants, remontant, and
strongly scented."


Yeah, on reflection you're probably right. My big-variety plants
are still small (lack of proper care, and of course ravages of
Bambi and chums): I haven't see e.g. my two plants of New Dawn
putting on a big show, and the Noisettes I acquired this spring are
blooming but they are still small. My Mermaids are more like
brine shrimp so far (I'm told that they grow slowly when small;
one rosarian at the ARS chapter in Gainesville says that his is
over twelve feet high and across).

Then again, the own-root Clair Matin I planted this spring has just
put up several six-foot canes right from the base (it's next to a trellis
near the trailer, and the deer avoid it). Patience with the real giants
might be key.

I think I've been having unrealistic expectations of a recent
introduction being something that looks and repeats like the
best of the English Roses but smothers houses given half a
chance, when I should be giving my Noisettes and other
potential giants more time and a better situation -- and maybe
get more of them. (Raised beds may be a necessity in wetter
bits of my land, too, what with roses not liking wet feet.)

Mark., trying to chill out and be realistic



  #4   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:06 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

In article , Mark. Gooley
wrote:

Heirloom Roses (www.heirloomroses.com) does have a few
roses classed under "Ramblers" that are fairly recent, fairly big,
and in some cases remontant: this is encouraging. I know nothing
of them apart from the catalog descriptions, but Cherries Jubilee
(red, once-bloomer, 14 ft.), Christmas Snow (white, once but long
season, 14 ft., and that damned "lightly fragrant" again), the
German-bred Super Dorothy and Super Excelsa (12 ft., but
remontant), and some of their others might be worth a try.


The best scented rambler (truly a once bloomer) that I know of is Long
John Silver. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/LongJohnSilver.jpg

It's probably foolish of me to expect any recent introductions to
be huge plants, remontant, and strongly scented. No doubt a
reliable repeat bloom means that the plant has less energy to
grow large, for one thing. But if anyone knows of such roses,
do let me know. At least there are the older varieties out there.


Westerland? It actually grows like a huge floribunda on steroids, with
8 foot canes and bloom waving at the tips. It's a bit stiff to use as a
climber, at least I wasn't able to do it because the canes always
snapped when I tried to train them horizontal. But I've seen it grown
as a 12 - 15 ft. pillar.

If you think New Dawn is strongly scented, then it has a lot of
off-spring you'll think are scented: Aloha, Parade, Penny Lane, Dublin
Bay, Coral Dawn, Dixieland Linda, Rhonda.

I'll be interested to know how New Dawn performs for you. It has a
reputation for poor rebloom in coastal California. But if you're really
zone 8, then it should be a winner.

The largest, best scented, best reblooming roses here often hybrid
musks. They get very large, and some have very good scent - Cornelia,
Francesca, Buff Beauty. Also Excellenz von Schubert. I grow them all as
shrubs, and Excellenz von Schubert is the largest - not tall, but
fountain shaped. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/ExcellenzShrub.jpg
Buff Beauty produces 6-7 foot canes, rather procumbent in my garden.
Cornelia sends up 7 foot canes, but arching like Excellenz von
Schubert.

Depending on what you think about the Kordesii scent (Rosarium Uetersen
is an example), Dortmund also gets huge. It takes at least 3 years to
grow huge *and* rebloom well, but mine, now in the ground 3 full years,
is finally reblooming quite well. The first year you'll think it's a
dud. It won't throw 12 foot canes until the end of the second year.
It's huge. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/Dortmund28May03.jpg
And that's after severe pruning last year when it got in the way of the
dog's tennis ball and she chewed through two basals.

Also, Golden Celebration is reputed to grow to 8 feet in mild climates.
I only have 4 foot canes, but then I planted mine last winter.

Joasine Hanet aka Glendora is huge, remontant and highly scent, damask,
like Rose de Rescht but better scent and foliage. 6 feet tall, 8 feet
wide. It's best with periodic whacking, but it grows a lot each season.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/JoasineMay03.jpg

Mme. Pierre Oger. Best foliage of the bourbons in my garden, constant
flowers. My poor plant lived in a pot too long, but it's first season
in the ground it has produced three 6' canes. I will say the flowers
blow in a day and look particularly loathsome in the heat.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/MmePierreOger.jpg

One climber that is not widely known and can be slow to build (tho not
for most people - but very slow here) is Ralph Moore's Renae. The scent
is quite delicious, the pink flowers like perfect little rose buds when
new and then opening flat and semi-double. Almost thornless and
beautiful foliage that is as close to perfect as it gets.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/Renae.jpg

Oh, and "Secret Garden Musk Climber." Very tender but clove-scented.
Slow to build but grows like a climber in Southern and Central
California. Mine throws 6 foot canes only, very thin wood, lots and
lots of white single blooms. Hard to find, good to grow. And while
we're doing white single found roses that get huge, Darlow's Enigma is
another.

I like big roses. There are more than enough for my purposes, scented
and unscented. After all, they don't all have to be scented. I have
Phyllis Bide growing next to Excellenze von Schubert, and you'd never
for a moment be disappointed that Phyllis has no scent because EvS has
so much. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/Phyllis.jpg


Same with Sally Holmes. Pair her with a scented hybrid musk and you
won't feel cheated. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/SallyTons.jpg
  #5   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:09 AM
Mark. Gooley
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves


"Unique Too" wrote:
"Mark. Gooley" writes:

"For those who prefer a smaller rose[bush]." Okay, if you like
miniatures or if you have a small garden, that's a selling point.
I'm fortunate enough to have room, and I want BIG rosebushes.


I have a small lot, but I really like the BIG plants. Of the 50 or
so roses I have, only 10 are less than 3 X 3 and that includes
four miniatures.

What I'm missing from your post is why. Why do you want
recent introductions when there are so many oldies but goodies
out there? I ran out of room long before I aquired all the ones
that fit your requirements of "huge plants, remontant, and
strongly scented."


Yeah, on reflection you're probably right. My big-variety plants
are still small (lack of proper care, and of course ravages of
Bambi and chums): I haven't see e.g. my two plants of New Dawn
putting on a big show, and the Noisettes I acquired this spring are
blooming but they are still small. My Mermaids are more like
brine shrimp so far (I'm told that they grow slowly when small;
one rosarian at the ARS chapter in Gainesville says that his is
over twelve feet high and across).

Then again, the own-root Clair Matin I planted this spring has just
put up several six-foot canes right from the base (it's next to a trellis
near the trailer, and the deer avoid it). Patience with the real giants
might be key.

I think I've been having unrealistic expectations of a recent
introduction being something that looks and repeats like the
best of the English Roses but smothers houses given half a
chance, when I should be giving my Noisettes and other
potential giants more time and a better situation -- and maybe
get more of them. (Raised beds may be a necessity in wetter
bits of my land, too, what with roses not liking wet feet.)

Mark., trying to chill out and be realistic





  #6   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 07:09 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

In article , Mark. Gooley
wrote:

Heirloom Roses (www.heirloomroses.com) does have a few
roses classed under "Ramblers" that are fairly recent, fairly big,
and in some cases remontant: this is encouraging. I know nothing
of them apart from the catalog descriptions, but Cherries Jubilee
(red, once-bloomer, 14 ft.), Christmas Snow (white, once but long
season, 14 ft., and that damned "lightly fragrant" again), the
German-bred Super Dorothy and Super Excelsa (12 ft., but
remontant), and some of their others might be worth a try.


The best scented rambler (truly a once bloomer) that I know of is Long
John Silver. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/LongJohnSilver.jpg

It's probably foolish of me to expect any recent introductions to
be huge plants, remontant, and strongly scented. No doubt a
reliable repeat bloom means that the plant has less energy to
grow large, for one thing. But if anyone knows of such roses,
do let me know. At least there are the older varieties out there.


Westerland? It actually grows like a huge floribunda on steroids, with
8 foot canes and bloom waving at the tips. It's a bit stiff to use as a
climber, at least I wasn't able to do it because the canes always
snapped when I tried to train them horizontal. But I've seen it grown
as a 12 - 15 ft. pillar.

If you think New Dawn is strongly scented, then it has a lot of
off-spring you'll think are scented: Aloha, Parade, Penny Lane, Dublin
Bay, Coral Dawn, Dixieland Linda, Rhonda.

I'll be interested to know how New Dawn performs for you. It has a
reputation for poor rebloom in coastal California. But if you're really
zone 8, then it should be a winner.

The largest, best scented, best reblooming roses here often hybrid
musks. They get very large, and some have very good scent - Cornelia,
Francesca, Buff Beauty. Also Excellenz von Schubert. I grow them all as
shrubs, and Excellenz von Schubert is the largest - not tall, but
fountain shaped. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/ExcellenzShrub.jpg
Buff Beauty produces 6-7 foot canes, rather procumbent in my garden.
Cornelia sends up 7 foot canes, but arching like Excellenz von
Schubert.

Depending on what you think about the Kordesii scent (Rosarium Uetersen
is an example), Dortmund also gets huge. It takes at least 3 years to
grow huge *and* rebloom well, but mine, now in the ground 3 full years,
is finally reblooming quite well. The first year you'll think it's a
dud. It won't throw 12 foot canes until the end of the second year.
It's huge. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesAtoI/Dortmund28May03.jpg
And that's after severe pruning last year when it got in the way of the
dog's tennis ball and she chewed through two basals.

Also, Golden Celebration is reputed to grow to 8 feet in mild climates.
I only have 4 foot canes, but then I planted mine last winter.

Joasine Hanet aka Glendora is huge, remontant and highly scent, damask,
like Rose de Rescht but better scent and foliage. 6 feet tall, 8 feet
wide. It's best with periodic whacking, but it grows a lot each season.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/JoasineMay03.jpg

Mme. Pierre Oger. Best foliage of the bourbons in my garden, constant
flowers. My poor plant lived in a pot too long, but it's first season
in the ground it has produced three 6' canes. I will say the flowers
blow in a day and look particularly loathsome in the heat.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/MmePierreOger.jpg

One climber that is not widely known and can be slow to build (tho not
for most people - but very slow here) is Ralph Moore's Renae. The scent
is quite delicious, the pink flowers like perfect little rose buds when
new and then opening flat and semi-double. Almost thornless and
beautiful foliage that is as close to perfect as it gets.
http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/Renae.jpg

Oh, and "Secret Garden Musk Climber." Very tender but clove-scented.
Slow to build but grows like a climber in Southern and Central
California. Mine throws 6 foot canes only, very thin wood, lots and
lots of white single blooms. Hard to find, good to grow. And while
we're doing white single found roses that get huge, Darlow's Enigma is
another.

I like big roses. There are more than enough for my purposes, scented
and unscented. After all, they don't all have to be scented. I have
Phyllis Bide growing next to Excellenze von Schubert, and you'd never
for a moment be disappointed that Phyllis has no scent because EvS has
so much. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/Phyllis.jpg


Same with Sally Holmes. Pair her with a scented hybrid musk and you
won't feel cheated. http://www.rosefog.us/imagesJtoZ/SallyTons.jpg
  #7   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 09:42 PM
Unique Too
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

Cass writes:

snip If you think New Dawn is strongly scented, then it has a lot of
off-spring you'll think are scented: Aloha, Parade, Penny Lane, Dublin
Bay, Coral Dawn, Dixieland Linda, Rhonda.... major snip


If Mark is looking for large roses your post certainly should help. You
suggested 22 (yea, I counted) and most fit all three of his requirements. That
should certainly fill up some of this space. g

Julie

  #8   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2003, 09:43 PM
Unique Too
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

"Mark. Gooley" writes:

I think I've been having unrealistic expectations of a recent
introduction being something that looks and repeats like the
best of the English Roses but smothers houses given half a
chance, when I should be giving my Noisettes and other
potential giants more time and a better situation -- and maybe
get more of them.


I'm trying to think of some of the old roses that would look like the English
roses and get large. Souvenir de la Malmaison, the climber, is close, but
doesn't repeat well for me. How about Sombreuil, very fragrant, lots of petals
and good repeat bloom. But I guess that depends on what is in your mind when
you think of English roses. To me, Abraham Darby is typical.
My Darlow's Enigma and Secret Garden Musk Climber are still babies, but I'm
expecting big things from them. I don't get a great deal of fragrance from
either, but I love those blooms. Especially DE. They look so fragile and
delicate, just perfect little flowers. Mine is planted in an area that does
not get nearly enough sun, but this one hasn't stopped blooming and doesn't
have a single blackspotted leaf.
Reve d'Or is a great, and big, noisette. Mine did take three years or so to
get going well, but now it's covering a palm and cascading to the ground. This
rose has the most perfect looking buds of any rose I've ever grown.
Do you have Alachua (sp?) Red? Or did I see it on the nursery site you
mentioned? I wonder if it may be the same rose as Red Cascade. RC is classed
as a miniature, but the only thing miniature about it is the leaves and blooms.
This one will throw 20' + canes every season. It can be grown as a climber or
a groundcover. A local nursery uses it for erosion control around a sink hole.
Mine is growing up through a rectangular arbor and cascades down (and out and
up and under the siding and everywhere else I don't cut it back.) I use the
hedge trimmers each spring to cut it back to arbor size and then hack away at
errant canes at least once a month. If let go it would easily be the largest
rose I grow. Oh yes, and it those canes remain on the ground any length of
time, they root. You could cover acres with just one of these in a couple of
years.
Give yours a chance to grow a little. The ones you mentioned in a recent post
are some good roses (Mrs. BR Cant comes to mind first) and should fit your
needs the near future. Patience, patience.....and no I don't have any to
spare. g
Julie
  #9   Report Post  
Old 12-08-2003, 06:15 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

In article , Unique Too
wrote:

"Mark. Gooley" writes:

I think I've been having unrealistic expectations of a recent
introduction being something that looks and repeats like the
best of the English Roses but smothers houses given half a
chance, when I should be giving my Noisettes and other
potential giants more time and a better situation -- and maybe
get more of them.


I'm trying to think of some of the old roses that would look like the English
roses and get large. Souvenir de la Malmaison, the climber, is close, but
doesn't repeat well for me. How about Sombreuil, very fragrant, lots of petals
and good repeat bloom. But I guess that depends on what is in your mind when
you think of English roses. To me, Abraham Darby is typical.
My Darlow's Enigma and Secret Garden Musk Climber are still babies, but I'm
expecting big things from them. I don't get a great deal of fragrance from
either, but I love those blooms. Especially DE. They look so fragile and
delicate, just perfect little flowers. Mine is planted in an area that does
not get nearly enough sun, but this one hasn't stopped blooming and doesn't
have a single blackspotted leaf.
Reve d'Or is a great, and big, noisette. Mine did take three years or so to
get going well, but now it's covering a palm and cascading to the ground.
This
rose has the most perfect looking buds of any rose I've ever grown.


Noisettes and teas take some time to get established. (except for Mme.
Alfred, who doesn't wait for anything). I like Reve d'Or, but ever
since I saw a full-bore Jaune Desprez flush, I've been holding out.
  #10   Report Post  
Old 12-08-2003, 06:16 AM
Cass
 
Posts: n/a
Default a few pet peeves

In article , Unique Too
wrote:

Cass writes:

snip If you think New Dawn is strongly scented, then it has a lot of
off-spring you'll think are scented: Aloha, Parade, Penny Lane, Dublin
Bay, Coral Dawn, Dixieland Linda, Rhonda.... major snip


If Mark is looking for large roses your post certainly should help. You
suggested 22 (yea, I counted) and most fit all three of his requirements.
That
should certainly fill up some of this space. g


And I left out some huge roses with no scent, like Susan Louise.


  #11   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2011, 07:09 PM
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2011
Posts: 5
Default

It's apparently absurd of me to apprehend any contempo introductions to be huge plants, remontant, and acerb scented. No agnosticism a reliable echo blossom agency that the bulb has beneath activity to grow large, for one thing. But if anyone knows of such roses, do let me know. At atomic there are the earlier varieties out there.
__________________
Lights grow


Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
NEWBIE NEEDS YOUR HELP! Small town garden pet and child friendly plants venusmist Gardening 8 13-03-2009 08:14 AM
Responsible pet ownership (was nancy' pet) Jade Blackbourne Australia 2 03-09-2003 12:02 PM
pet fish Ghislain Ponds 5 28-08-2003 04:32 PM
pet discouragement Babberney Texas 2 05-04-2003 12:11 PM
pet discouragement Laura M Texas 0 08-02-2003 07:29 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:48 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2020 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017