Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
#316
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
Torsten Brinch wrote in message news On Thu, 02 Jan 2003 12:04:13 +0100, Torsten Brinch wrote: On Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:17:34 +0000, Tim Lamb wrote: I am not an accountant but I understand that published figures for profitability often include a *rent equivalent*. This is presumably to make comparisons easier. Yes, and those figures would be Net Farm Income figures, those we have been speaking from -- IMO quite appropriately for the thread, since that measure exactly allows us to look at UK farm profitability aggregated across tenure types. (Since this is being cross-posted to uk.business.agriculture, it should perhaps have been stressed from the start, that 'Net Farm Income' does not represent the income a farmer ends up with to meet his living expenses -- the Net Farm Income measure is not meant for, and should certainly not be used to compare the income of farmers with the personal earnings in other sectors of society.) In case there are Saxons hiding in confusion, a few figures to illustrate the commonly used measures for farm income. If the focus is how much or little farmers earn for a living -- compared to other people in society, we should be looking at Cash Income (CI). UK farm profitability, all farm types, nominal terms indexed, 100=avg(959697) 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 NFI 78 90 117 92 43 31 23 26 ONI 77 90 117 93 45 32 26 27 FFI 86 88 117 95 48 35 31 43 CI 79 87 107 105 82 71 66 63 Avg. farm incomes 2001, all types all sizes NFI £9,886 ONI £10,926 FFI £18,928 CI £31,462 (NFI=Net Farm Income, ONI=Occupiers Net Income FFI=Family Farm Income, CI=Cash Income) I suggest you stick them all on a graph and marvel at how all the lines show such a similar trend. Exept of course for cash income which I suspect will be your preferred measure -- Jim Webster "The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind" 'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami' |
#317
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
|
#319
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:11:26 +0100, Torsten Brinch
wrote: On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 17:23:51 +0000 (GMT), ("David G. Bell") wrote: On Saturday, in article "Jim Webster" wrote: Torsten Brinch wrote in message news ..If the focus is how much or little farmers earn for a living -- compared to other people in society, we should be looking at Cash Income (CI). UK farm profitability, all farm types, nominal terms indexed, 100=avg(959697) 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 .. CI 79 87 107 105 82 71 66 63 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 CI £39452 £43448 £53435 £52437 £40951 £35457 £32960 £31462 The avg income earner in UK had £23400 (males)/£14400(females) in 99/00. |
#320
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
Torsten Brinch wrote in message ... On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 19:11:26 +0100, Torsten Brinch wrote: On Sat, 04 Jan 2003 17:23:51 +0000 (GMT), ("David G. Bell") wrote: On Saturday, in article "Jim Webster" wrote: Torsten Brinch wrote in message news ..If the focus is how much or little farmers earn for a living -- compared to other people in society, we should be looking at Cash Income (CI). UK farm profitability, all farm types, nominal terms indexed, 100=avg(959697) 94 95 96 97 98 99 00 01 .. CI 79 87 107 105 82 71 66 63 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 CI £39452 £43448 £53435 £52437 £40951 £35457 £32960 £31462 The avg income earner in UK had £23400 (males)/£14400(females) in 99/00. how did I guess he would prefer to use cash income as the figure for comparison. Does the average income earner figures include pension contributions? -- Jim Webster "The pasture of stupidity is unwholesome to mankind" 'Abd-ar-Rahman b. Muhammad b. Khaldun al-Hadrami' |
#321
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
"Jim Webster" wrote in message ... The avg income earner in UK had £23400 (males)/£14400(females) in 99/00. how did I guess he would prefer to use cash income as the figure for comparison. Does the average income earner figures include pension contributions? I believe it includes everything, overtime, payment in kind etc. Also more than 50% earn less than average. A more meaningful figure would be total earnings for 37.5 hours below which 50% of full time workers get. This would be significantly less I believe. |
#322
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 16:08:06 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth"
wrote: "Jim Webster" wrote in message ... how did I guess he would prefer to use cash income as the figure for comparison. what a maroon Farm Accounts Book, backgrounder factsheet: "Net Farm Income .. Occupier’s Income and Family Farm Income .. None of these income measures should be used to indicate how much income a farmer has to meet his weekly/monthly/annual living expenses or to make comparisons with the earnings of employees in other sectors. For such purposes the ‘Cash Income’ generated by the farm business is a better measure." avg. UK Farm income £ 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 NFI 29658 34221 44487 34981 16350 11787 8745 9886 ONI 31159 36420 47346 37634 18210 12949 10521 10926 FFI 37856 38736 51502 41818 21129 15407 13646 18928 CI 39452 43448 53435 52437 40951 35457 32960 31462 For comparison, the avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). |
#323
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... For comparison, the avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). As I said in an earlier email, this number is almost meaningless beyond causing unhappiness all round. For 2001 the average hourly rate for people in full time employment was £10.28 which equates to £20000 per annum., based on a 37.5 hour week. |
#324
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:13:10 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . For comparison, the avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). As I said in an earlier email, this number is almost meaningless beyond causing unhappiness all round. You haven't said that previously, and it's not clear what you are saying. In the previous post, what you seemed to me to be indicating was that we should use medians rather than averages. For 2001 the average hourly rate for people in full time employment was £10.28 which equates to £20000 per annum., based on a 37.5 hour week. Well, I can't see that adds anything; it indicates the same as the figures I posted, that the avg UK income earner would currently be at an income level of about £20000 For comparison, avg farm income (Cash Income, rounded figures): 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 £39000 £43000 £53000 £52000 £41000 £35000 £33000 £31000 |
#325
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 17:13:10 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . For comparison, the avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). As I said in an earlier email, this number is almost meaningless beyond causing unhappiness all round. You haven't said that previously, and it's not clear what you are saying. In the previous post, what you seemed to me to be indicating was that we should use medians rather than averages. For 2001 the average hourly rate for people in full time employment was £10.28 which equates to £20000 per annum., based on a 37.5 hour week. Well, I can't see that adds anything; it indicates the same as the figures I posted, that the avg UK income earner would currently be at an income level of about £20000 Simple, you quote a seriese of statistics I can only check one of them. That is wrong so I cannot trust the rest. |
#326
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:05:09 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . Well, I can't see that adds anything; it indicates the same as the figures I posted, that the avg UK income earner would currently be at an income level of about £20000 Simple, you quote a seriese of statistics I can only check one of them. That is wrong so I cannot trust the rest. The avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). (Source: Survey of Personal Incomes, Board of Inland Revenue) For comparison, avg farm income (Cash Income, rounded figures): 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 £39000 £43000 £53000 £52000 £41000 £35000 £33000 £31000 (Source: Farm Accounts Book) |
#327
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:05:09 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . Well, I can't see that adds anything; it indicates the same as the figures I posted, that the avg UK income earner would currently be at an income level of about £20000 Simple, you quote a seriese of statistics I can only check one of them. That is wrong so I cannot trust the rest. The avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). (Source: Survey of Personal Incomes, Board of Inland Revenue) For comparison, avg farm income (Cash Income, rounded figures): 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 £39000 £43000 £53000 £52000 £41000 £35000 £33000 £31000 (Source: Farm Accounts Book) I had no doubt that the figure came from a reputable source, just in isolation it is meaningless and therefore the numbers it is used to compare with are meaningless. |
#328
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:45:46 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:05:09 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth" wrote: Simple, you quote a seriese of statistics I can only check one of them. That is wrong so I cannot trust the rest. The avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). (Source: Survey of Personal Incomes, Board of Inland Revenue) For comparison, avg farm income (Cash Income, rounded figures): 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 £39000 £43000 £53000 £52000 £41000 £35000 £33000 £31000 (Source: Farm Accounts Book) I had no doubt that the figure came from a reputable source, just in isolation it is meaningless and therefore the numbers it is used to compare with are meaningless. Hamish, what exactly is the problem? The two sets of figures are posted just above from here, together, not in isolation, and with the source and nature of data identified. |
#329
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
"Torsten Brinch" wrote in message ... On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:45:46 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth" wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 18:05:09 -0000, "Hamish Macbeth" wrote: Simple, you quote a seriese of statistics I can only check one of them. That is wrong so I cannot trust the rest. The avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). (Source: Survey of Personal Incomes, Board of Inland Revenue) For comparison, avg farm income (Cash Income, rounded figures): 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 £39000 £43000 £53000 £52000 £41000 £35000 £33000 £31000 (Source: Farm Accounts Book) I had no doubt that the figure came from a reputable source, just in isolation it is meaningless and therefore the numbers it is used to compare with are meaningless. Hamish, what exactly is the problem? The two sets of figures are posted just above from here, together, not in isolation, and with the source and nature of data identified. Quite interesting that farm incomes £33000 are so close UK avg income (i.e. 23400+14400) £37800. Though I doubt many others on slightly less than the average income have quite such expensive to maintain properties as the average farming family. Michael Saunby |
#330
|
|||
|
|||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002
On Sun, 5 Jan 2003 19:23:27 -0000, "Michael Saunby"
wrote: "Torsten Brinch" wrote in message .. . The avg income earner in UK had an income in 99/00 of £23400 (males)/£14400(females). (Source: Survey of Personal Incomes, Board of Inland Revenue) For comparison, avg farm income (Cash Income, rounded figures): 93/94 94/95 95/96 96/97 97/98 98/99 99/00 00/01 £39000 £43000 £53000 £52000 £41000 £35000 £33000 £31000 (Source: Farm Accounts Book) Quite interesting that farm incomes £33000 are so close UK avg income (i.e. 23400+14400) £37800. Though I doubt many others on slightly less than the average income have quite such expensive to maintain properties as the average farming family. Look up the definition of Cash Income. |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
Tour-2002 vs.2009 - 2-2002-2009-Front_Walk.jpg (1/1) | Garden Photos | |||
Tour-2002 vs.2009 - 1-2002-2009-August-Front.jpg (1/1) | Garden Photos | |||
[IBC] BONSAI Digest - 8 Jun 2003 to 9 Jun 2003 (#2003-161) | Bonsai | |||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002 | sci.agriculture | |||
UK farm profitability to jun 2002 | sci.agriculture |