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#121
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Gordon Couger" wrote in message ...
"Oz" wrote in message ... Hua Kul writes Another naif who seems to believe that governments and their regulations will save us. It was a British government regulation requiring cattle to be heavily dosed with organophosphate pesticides which may have triggered the BSE outbreak. See Mark Purdy's research. Had organophosphates caused it or fairies dancing ainti clockwise on the dark of a blue moon BSE is still no more than a fart in a hurricane in the problems of world health. Gordon You missed my point, which was that government actions (regarding *anything*, and no matter how well intentioned) can't be relied upon to protect us from much of anything, as you seemed to imply by your vague "testing" post. You still haven't addressed my larger point, posted in response to your challenge, that the pharmaceutical industries are intent upon using elements of our food production systems not to improve the food but to contaminate it for the purpose of increasing their profits, and the demonstrated danger in that being the total contamination of an entire crop globally, as is happening with Monsanto's Starlink GM corn. To me that one example is enough to totally prohibit any GM changes, with the possibe exception of those changes that actually improve the nutrition, safety, or yield of the crop. --Hua Kul |
#122
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... In sci.med.nutrition Jim Webster wrote: utterly irrelevent he was too weak to take any antibiotic That vomiting is one of the listed side effects of linezolid, a drug now used against MRSA. You don't have to be feeble to be taken off it. Did he use to be able to tolerate the `...cillin' drugs? Read what I said, he was too was to take any antibiotic So they switched to the antiseptic wash Which they probably use anyway, linezolid or not? I suppose they will claim linezolid is no worse than any other, but it is better to have more in the arsenal isn't it? Then say do genetic testing and do not prescribe by trial and error. Try not to eliminate your choices by feeding everybody with GM antibiotic resistance genes, especially when we know that DNA is not fully deactivated by digestion, and is also getting to the unborn. what total twaddle. As bacteria have far more antibiotic resistant genes than GM crops, They bacteria may have a few more types, if they have been selected by anitbiotics, but the crop has it in every cell, so far more altogether, and constantly present. no, start thinking carefully all food has bacteria so you eat it with every meal. Varying amounts, healthy food stops bacteria growing in itself. Have you any actual evidence for this bizarre statement! And even if it does, you inhale and swallow bacteria with every mouthful of food. There might be some on the surface. But GM food has it all the way through, in every cell. So what, it is one know GM, as opposed to millions upon millions of different, possibly unique bacteria Each meal with contain bacteria resistant to antibiotics we haven't even developed yet but are used in nature, bacteria resistant to antibiotics that are so old that they are no longer used It is not the age which stops them being used. It is when they don't work or are too toxic. Rubbish again. We have seen on our own farm old drugs come back into usefulness because there were no longer bacteria about which were resistant to them. and bacteria more resistant than their fellows to heavy metals, UV, and for all I know tedium. Yes, as I posted from Heinemann they learn learn, is this a night school course, or a full university course? Please stop using anthropomorphic phrases which don't actually mean anything under antibiotic selection to do stress adaptation. If the antibiotic resistance genes are present they will make use of them. With GM, firstly not every meal contains GM DNA, Except if you eat corn most meals. Exactly, as I said, with GM not every meal contains GM DNA Snip you have two choices. pay enough to make growing conventional worth while or eat GM choice is entirely yours Or persuade people they are being ripped off, made into serfs, having their tax used to subsidise research into such activities. If you hadn't been ripping them off over conventional crops they wouldn't have had to turn to GM in the first place! Jim Webster |
#123
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Oz" wrote in message ... Jim Webster writes round here you can wait weeks for the afternoon sun. Haven't seen it since Monday IT'S RAINING HERE!!!!! Maybe 3mm (1/10") since yesterday! Yippppeeee!!!! If it stops by monday, that will be nice. I seem to remember you reporting no sight of the sun for three months once, although you did report the odd rainless day. we can get months like that, certainly the back end of 2000/2001 was grim, we didn't have two consecutive days without rain Jim Webster -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
#124
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Jim Webster" wrote in message ... "Oz" wrote in message ... Jim Webster writes round here you can wait weeks for the afternoon sun. Haven't seen it since Monday IT'S RAINING HERE!!!!! Maybe 3mm (1/10") since yesterday! Yippppeeee!!!! If it stops by monday, that will be nice. I seem to remember you reporting no sight of the sun for three months once, although you did report the odd rainless day. we can get months like that, certainly the back end of 2000/2001 was grim, we didn't have two consecutive days without rain I don't have to mow the grass anymore because it quit growing. I am watering the foundation around the house to keep it from cracking and the trees less than 5 years old to keep then from dying. Gordon |
#125
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
Gordon Couger writes
I don't have to mow the grass anymore because it quit growing. I am watering the foundation around the house to keep it from cracking and the trees less than 5 years old to keep then from dying. I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. Probably never gets hotter than 25C or colder than 0C (OK, maybe transiently), and rains most days, sun seen occasionally. Sun probably sets 11.00PM around midsummer and 3.00PM around midwinter. Grass grows like sugarcane in summer. Even grows quite a bit in winter. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
#126
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
Gordon Couger writes
"Oz" wrote in message I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. I wouldn't know what to do with that. I just want to get wells dug that make enough water that I don't care if it rains. Jim just want's field drains and ditches that can take it away quickly.. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
#127
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes "Oz" wrote in message I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. I wouldn't know what to do with that. I just want to get wells dug that make enough water that I don't care if it rains. Jim just want's field drains and ditches that can take it away quickly.. There is no shortage of rain just a destitution problem. Gordon |
#128
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes "Oz" wrote in message I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. I wouldn't know what to do with that. I just want to get wells dug that make enough water that I don't care if it rains. Jim just want's field drains and ditches that can take it away quickly.. -- yes, I have land that I will not take cattle on between October and March, even though I can silage it in May. I do find it fascinating reading when everyone is discussing the advantages of no-till and struggling to retain soil moisture, round here ploughing is used to dry the land out a bit. You plough and let the sun and wind take away some of the moisture so you can get a tilth. Funny old world Jim Webster |
#129
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
Jim Webster wrote:
"Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes "Oz" wrote in message I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. I wouldn't know what to do with that. I just want to get wells dug that make enough water that I don't care if it rains. Jim just want's field drains and ditches that can take it away quickly.. -- yes, I have land that I will not take cattle on between October and March, even though I can silage it in May. I do find it fascinating reading when everyone is discussing the advantages of no-till and struggling to retain soil moisture, round here ploughing is used to dry the land out a bit. You plough and let the sun and wind take away some of the moisture so you can get a tilth. Funny old world What are various types of trees like at extracting water from the ground? I suppose evergreens keep the sun off the land, but they might shelter animals from wind. I am thinking that the surface area of roots in contact with soil is greater than the area exposed to wind by ploughing. Then the leaves contact the wind. Also the trees could be a crop. You could plant several types of trees, each working better in slightly different conditions. Diversity is much better against troubles. You can have the diversity within each farm, or else you use the govt to buffer against loss as with BSE, or both. I hate to think who will bear the brunt of troubles with the huge GM reduced diversity scheme. |
#130
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes "Oz" wrote in message I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. I wouldn't know what to do with that. I just want to get wells dug that make enough water that I don't care if it rains. Jim just want's field drains and ditches that can take it away quickly.. -- yes, I have land that I will not take cattle on between October and March, even though I can silage it in May. I do find it fascinating reading when everyone is discussing the advantages of no-till and struggling to retain soil moisture, round here ploughing is used to dry the land out a bit. You plough and let the sun and wind take away some of the moisture so you can get a tilth. Funny old world What are various types of trees like at extracting water from the ground? I suppose evergreens keep the sun off the land, but they might shelter animals from wind. I am thinking that the surface area of roots in contact with soil is greater than the area exposed to wind by ploughing. Then the leaves contact the wind. Also the trees could be a crop. You could plant several types of trees, each working better in slightly different conditions. Diversity is much better against troubles. You can have the diversity within each farm, or else you use the govt to buffer against loss as with BSE, or both. I hate to think who will bear the brunt of troubles with the huge GM reduced diversity scheme. not in the UK, planting trees is a waste of time and is not economically viable unless you have an awful lot of land.Plant trees here and you would drive people off the land Jim Webster |
#131
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
Jim Webster writes
Some moron: I am thinking that the surface area of roots in contact with soil is greater than the area exposed to wind by ploughing. Moron. How do you grow a crop when the land is covered by trees? The moisture loss from green grass, trees and open water is similar. The aim is to get a top layer dry enough to work/drill. Then the leaves contact the wind. Also the trees could be a crop. Not in the UK. Typically the value of small (say 1000T) of standing timber is approximately zero. Most places the highest value sale is for firewood. You could plant several types of trees, each working better in slightly different conditions. Trees are not rates for moisture loss. Diversity is much better against troubles. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. In jims case alternatives to grass are problematic. You can have the diversity within each farm, or else you use the govt to buffer against loss as with BSE, or both. Govt hates to pay farmers anything. They paid for bse primarily for public health reasons. I hate to think who will bear the brunt of troubles with the huge GM reduced diversity scheme. Que? not in the UK, planting trees is a waste of time and is not economically viable unless you have an awful lot of land.Plant trees here and you would drive people off the land Absolutely. I doubt they would grow very well given your location anyway. If the wind didn't get them, the salt would. -- Oz This post is worth absolutely nothing and is probably fallacious. Note: soon (maybe already) only posts via despammed.com will be accepted. |
#132
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
In sci.med.nutrition Moosh:] wrote:
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 13:36:39 +0100, "Jim Webster" wrote: "Brian Sandle" wrote in message .. . Organims including humans have learned to coexist. Now we have to learn new lessons very fast. Lettuce can take up E coli from soil and have it reside in the edible portion. That E coli can have multiple drug resistance, because of current practices. Bacteria can exchange DNA within human cells, protected from antibiotics, too. so what what has this got to do with the childish anthropomorphism of nature. It makes as much sense as saying that Gravity has a sense of humour. Course it does, Jim. It is the mainstay of slapstick comedy Indeed! Linkname: UC Research: The life and times of the undead URL: http://www.canterbury.ac.nz/publish/research/97/A12.htm Last Mod: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:48:29 GMT size: 108 lines The life and times of the undead [...] How can our genes reproduce faster than us? When subsets of genes can be 'swapped' between neighbouring organisms ('horizontal' reproduction), rather than just passed to offspring ('vertical' reproduction), they can reproduce faster than the gene sets passed vertically. Microbes are host to an unsuspectedly enormous flux of genes through swapping and probably so are we. That most reproduction in the world might be horizontal rather than vertical was not anticipated by observing reproduction of plants and animals. This difference in reproductive styles is more than esoteric, because by imposing an anthropomorphic bias on evolutionary mechanisms ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ humans have made an enormous medical blunder. The medical association of disease-causing and antibiotic resistance traits of microbes with their reproductive success, a reflection of our own biology, has been counterproductive to attempts to cure disease. If the associations were accurate, then making certain microbes extinct should simultaneously remove disease and the source of resistance genes. The spread and success of the genetic creatures despite our use of antibiotics is evidence for a reproductive strategy that reveals ours (vertical) as only the exception to the rule. [...] |
#133
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
In sci.med.nutrition Oz wrote:
Jim Webster writes Some moron: I am thinking that the surface area of roots in contact with soil is greater than the area exposed to wind by ploughing. Moron. How do you grow a crop when the land is covered by trees? The moisture loss from green grass, trees and open water is similar. The aim is to get a top layer dry enough to work/drill. If the soil is too fine - a clay - then water will not drain through it. If the soil is such that the water will drain through it, it may still be stopped by excess water at lower levels. Tree roots go a bit deeper and pump out the lower water, and lower nutrients. Then the leaves contact the wind. Also the trees could be a crop. Not in the UK. Typically the value of small (say 1000T) of standing timber is approximately zero. Most places the highest value sale is for firewood. You don't sell all the `crops' you plant. Some are like lupin to nitrogenate the soil. What I am talking about is `agroforestry'. On a small dairy farm you would not have a huge tonnage of trees, they would be widely spaced, and where they pumped out water it would make space for adjoining water to move. You could plant several types of trees, each working better in slightly different conditions. Trees are not rates for moisture loss. Diversity is much better against troubles. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. In jims case alternatives to grass are problematic. If you are gearing a farm up to sell having some specialist timber on it might help to sell the farm. How about some spruce, pine or maple for violin making? I don't know but maybe the growing rates would favour the type of density of timber? I may be way off. But if you are far enough from population can you burn your own timber for hot water &C? You can have the diversity within each farm, or else you use the govt to buffer against loss as with BSE, or both. Govt hates to pay farmers anything. They paid for bse primarily for public health reasons. Because the govt paid out the taxpayers should have say in how farming is done. I hate to think who will bear the brunt of troubles with the huge GM reduced diversity scheme. Que? The GM genes are being put in a few more strains of crops, but the genetic diversity is still low. These crops expend energy making the GM protein, therefore have less viability. not in the UK, planting trees is a waste of time and is not economically viable unless you have an awful lot of land.Plant trees here and you would drive people off the land Absolutely. I doubt they would grow very well given your location anyway. If the wind didn't get them, the salt would. In New Zealand we grow macrocarpa near the sea. That is a useful timber. The roots can be long and not too deep. A shelter belt of a few rows produces many single stemmed trees. If they are standing alone you might need to prune them. |
#134
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... Jim Webster wrote: "Oz" wrote in message ... Gordon Couger writes "Oz" wrote in message I suspect you may have a problem with jim's climate. It's a rare month indeed when transpiration exceeds precipitation. I wouldn't know what to do with that. I just want to get wells dug that make enough water that I don't care if it rains. Jim just want's field drains and ditches that can take it away quickly.. -- yes, I have land that I will not take cattle on between October and March, even though I can silage it in May. I do find it fascinating reading when everyone is discussing the advantages of no-till and struggling to retain soil moisture, round here ploughing is used to dry the land out a bit. You plough and let the sun and wind take away some of the moisture so you can get a tilth. Funny old world What are various types of trees like at extracting water from the ground? I suppose evergreens keep the sun off the land, but they might shelter animals from wind. I am thinking that the surface area of roots in contact with soil is greater than the area exposed to wind by ploughing. Then the leaves contact the wind. Also the trees could be a crop. You could plant several types of trees, each working better in slightly different conditions. Diversity is much better against troubles. You can have the diversity within each farm, or else you use the govt to buffer against loss as with BSE, or both. I hate to think who will bear the brunt of troubles with the huge GM reduced diversity scheme. Trees in crop and pasture land are weeds. blocking sun and using water that grass or crops can use. GM crops increase the biodiversity by increasing the invertebrates, microbes, birds and other animals that are not disturbed by repeated tillage and toxic sprays. In my case they reduced my costs for cotton production as a land lord 50% and the farmers 15%, reduced the chance of wind and water erosion and let the soil build organic matter at the rate of 1% a year. www.couger.com/farm shows the different in notil cotton and conventional till. In this case the notil is my neighbors and conventional till is mine on an alfalfa hay meadow that is coming out of hay and into cotton. the other 3/4 of the farm is no till. Like most of the detractors of modern framing you have no practical experience faming. I have been at this 46 years and watch crops lost to blowing sand when there was noting that could be done about it, seen the ditches run a mile with and florescent yellow with preplant herbicide that was striped from the fields along with 2 or 3 inches of soil in 6 inches of rain that came in and hour. I have seen a rise come down Red River killing every fish in the river from one of those same driving rains falling on freshly sprayed irrigated cotton files and washing the insecticide into the river and killing fish for 20 miles. I had a neighbor that was never quite well again after spraying Toxiphene and berating too much of it. I know the real risks of the way you want us to farm and the much safer and more environmentally friendly way I can farm with GM crops. I am spending hard money and lots of on irrigation and my part of the tech fee on the seed. It is some of the best money I ever spent. Go make a living farming with your method and come back and I will give your views some credit. But all you do is spout the same tired dogma of the ludilits that are starving people to death in India and Africa. Dream about them tonight. I have done every thing I can to provide food for the world while ass holes like you try to protect what every you think you are protecting and condemn the third world to death and disease by things like not buying produce from countries the use DDT in spite of the fact that its use in homes will go a long way to controlling malaria out breaks. May the ghosts of the millions that have died and will die haunt you for your disregard of the world situation that has cause the break down in the fight against disease in the third world and now you want to deny them the benefits of modern agriculture as well. Gordon |
#135
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Paying to find non-GE wild corn?
"Brian Sandle" wrote in message ... In sci.med.nutrition Oz wrote: Jim Webster writes Some moron: I am thinking that the surface area of roots in contact with soil is greater than the area exposed to wind by ploughing. Moron. How do you grow a crop when the land is covered by trees? The moisture loss from green grass, trees and open water is similar. The aim is to get a top layer dry enough to work/drill. If the soil is too fine - a clay - then water will not drain through it. That is why we have field drains, some of them over a thousand years old. If the soil is such that the water will drain through it, it may still be stopped by excess water at lower levels. Tree roots go a bit deeper and pump out the lower water, and lower nutrients. Then the leaves contact the wind. Also the trees could be a crop. Not in the UK. Typically the value of small (say 1000T) of standing timber is approximately zero. Most places the highest value sale is for firewood. You don't sell all the `crops' you plant. Some are like lupin to nitrogenate the soil. What I am talking about is `agroforestry'. On a small dairy farm you would not have a huge tonnage of trees, they would be widely spaced, and where they pumped out water it would make space for adjoining water to move. Except that the trees are pretty well worthless in the UK. You could plant several types of trees, each working better in slightly different conditions. Trees are not rates for moisture loss. Diversity is much better against troubles. Sometimes it is, sometimes not. In jims case alternatives to grass are problematic. If you are gearing a farm up to sell having some specialist timber on it might help to sell the farm. How about some spruce, pine or maple for violin making? I don't know but maybe the growing rates would favour the type of density of timber? I may be way off. But if you are far enough from population can you burn your own timber for hot water &C? total waste of time in UK, none of those trees will pay for the grass lost in the area they stand. Absolutely. I doubt they would grow very well given your location anyway. If the wind didn't get them, the salt would. In New Zealand we grow macrocarpa near the sea. That is a useful timber. The roots can be long and not too deep. A shelter belt of a few rows produces many single stemmed trees. If they are standing alone you might need to prune them. And this is relevant to lowland Cumbria exactly how? We have a crop that is pretty well worthless in the UK and you expect me to prune it! Jim Webster |
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