How about burning towns & villages in the name of democracy?

How about more forest fires to open up land to raise more cattle?

Lowering air pollution standards would definitely do the job!!!


"Rolling Thunder" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 12:48:59 GMT, "Cereus-validus......."
wrote:

It seems clear that the reason for this year's heat wave is the lack of
particulate matter in the atmosphere blocking out the solar radiation.

What needs to be done is to encourage pollution worldwide to block out the
bad radiation so we can cool down the planet just a little!!!!

Duby's hare-brained solution to the problem almost seems to make sense. We
need to burn a lot more coal!!!


snip:



Or how about another volcano eruption?

Thunder

In article ,
Dave Poole writes:
| Mike Lyle wrote:
|
| And the consensus on climate change has built to a level where, most
| unfortunately, one has to start taking into consideration the
| political or paymaster issues relevant to those relatively few who
| pop up and tell us there's nothing to worry about.
|
| Its rather difficult to accept such 'reassurances' in the light of
| what is being discovered. ..., but if they turn out to be
| the start of a trend, then I think we may be in for a rougher ride
| sooner.

I think that you may be right. There is little dissent within the
scientific community about the certainty of drastic effects, and
not all that much about their magnitude. What isn't known is what
the effects will be or the exact timescale!

This gets translated by the likes of Bush, his cronies and poodles
into a claim that scientists don't know what will happen - and that
is used to disregard their warnings.

| Core samples illustrate that the world has indeed gone through many
| natural periods (oops nearly wrote 'cycles' there Nick) of quite
| marked warming (and cooling) in the past.

Yes. Yalden contains some nice, clear graphs that show the type
of variation that we lack a word for ....

| However, at no time in the
| earth's history has there been so much additional and artificially
| introduced greenhouse gas sloshing around. ...

Yes. As I understand it, the last time there was so much was
before the great apes had split off from the monkeys.

| So is anyone going to mention the possibility of the destabilisation
| of methane hydrate deposits and the catastrophic effects that could
| have? No? Maybe doomsday scenarios are best left for elsewhere.

Well, Michael Adams did raise the prospect of the North Atlantic
conveyor reversing. As I understand it, we know that it did within
a period (and that means 'within' not 'over') of 50 years about
10-11,000 years ago. However, the models are inadequate to show
how that could have happened, whether global warming would cause
it to reverse and so on. I believe that the current hypothesis is
that it is likely to stop fairly soon, which is bad news for the UK,
but not by comparison with it reversing.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
michael adams wrote:


There are claims even among Global Warming supporting
meteorologists that the present European droughts and heatwaves
are merely features of a recurrent 60 yr(?) cycle. Because ironically
global warming is expected to adversly affect the Gulf Stream
and make Western Europe more subject to cold air currents from
the Central Asian landmass to the East.

Oh, God, not cyclemania again :-( As with most other areas where
people have claimed to discover cycles (and the reason is not
obvious), there is damn-all evidence for them. Most of the time
the series is almost certainly an ARIMA model of sorts (think of
that as a correlated random walk).


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Global warming is caused by the dwindling number of pirates.

See http://www.venganza.org/

Bob

Bob Smith wrote:
[...]
Global warming is caused by the dwindling number of pirates.

See http://www.venganza.org/

The calm Voice of Sanity at last! It should be noted, however, that a
recent spike in pirate numbers local to Indonesian waters has often
been adduced in an attempt to refute the theory. It's very important
to get across to the lay public, which might easily be confused by
such an apparent counter-example, that in fact these data merely
_confirm_ the theory.

Nick can explain the stats better than I, and I wish dear old Franz
were still with us to describe the physics, but I think it's
essentially correct to say it's a matter of what the layman would
call "averaging". A localised concentration does nothing to detract
from the principle applied globally; and, very interestingly,
according to catastrophe theory, may even appear to produce a
transitory effect _contrary_ to what a global calculation would
predict.

--
Mike.

In article ,
"Mike Lyle" writes:
|
| Nick can explain the stats better than I, and I wish dear old Franz
| were still with us to describe the physics, but I think it's
| essentially correct to say it's a matter of what the layman would
| call "averaging". A localised concentration does nothing to detract
| from the principle applied globally; and, very interestingly,
| according to catastrophe theory, may even appear to produce a
| transitory effect _contrary_ to what a global calculation would
| predict.

As demonstrated by the technology of paraffin refrigerators.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"michael adams" wrote in message
...

"martin" wrote in message
...

Call me a naive crackpot, but I'd chose Nick in preference to any
journalist.
--
Martin


Please don't kid yourself. McLaren is the Crackpot here. You are
merely clinging onto his coat-tails.

McLaren questioned my use of cycles in relation to various
aspects of Global Warming.



Prof Mark Saunders, Benfield Hazard Research Centre

Ah, a Professor, you would be a real expert then?

From my contacts with professors over the years, most of them are so bound
up with their own importance, they have absolutely no idea of what real life
is about.

Alan


The forecast spate of hurricanes in 2005 is part of a multi-decadal
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
cycle of fluctuating sea temperatures.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

"It is a natural cycle of a period of about 50 or 60 years," Professor
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Saunders told the BBC News website.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

/quote


I'd stay in the shallow end if I were you. Certainly if you're relying
on the likes of Crackpots like Mclaren, to blow up your water wings
and keep you afloat.




michael adams

...

"martin" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:53:26 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

I could also add that the observations from previous
centuries are quite good enough in quality to debunk the theory
that there is a single predominant cycle.

Quite. I favour Velocette, but others like Triumph...

I've always had Raleigh.

--
Alan

Reply to alan (dot) holmes27 (at) virgin (dot) net


when in need of support?
--
Martin

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from martin contains these words:

Quite. I favour Velocette, but others like Triumph...

when in need of support?

I like the thud of the Longstroke MSS, every other lamp post. I like the
friskiness of the KTT, and the silent creep-uppedness of the LE -
amongst other things.

I don't need a walking-frame YET, TYVM.

Lucky beggar!

--
Alan

Reply to alan (dot) holmes27 (at) virgin (dot) net


--
Rusty
Emus to: horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
"Alan Holmes" writes:
|
| From my contacts with professors over the years, most of them are so bound
| up with their own importance, they have absolutely no idea of what real life
| is about.

That is a trifle unfair. The number that are so self-important that
they bullshit about their own field is relatively small, though not
unfortunately negligible.

But that is largely irrelevant to this situation, which is that of
a Guardian reporter mangling a complex and subtle scientific problem
and that of a naive layman mangling it considerably further and
then claiming that his misunderstanding is what was stated by the
original expert. In this case, don't blame the professor :-)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
"Mike Lyle" writes:

Nick can explain the stats better than I, and I wish dear old
Franz
were still with us to describe the physics, but I think it's
essentially correct to say it's a matter of what the layman would
call "averaging". A localised concentration does nothing to
detract
from the principle applied globally; and, very interestingly,
according to catastrophe theory, may even appear to produce a
transitory effect _contrary_ to what a global calculation would
predict.

As demonstrated by the technology of paraffin refrigerators.

A perfect example in more than one sense: I remember some people back
in Sa'udi had one which had to be turned upside-down every day to
make it work.

--
Mike.

Alan Holmes wrote:
"martin" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 20:53:26 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades
wrote:

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
[...]
that there is a single predominant cycle.

Quite. I favour Velocette, but others like Triumph...

I've always had Raleigh.

They always seemed to get your coat wet when going through puddles,
though.

--
Mike.

This will be my last post to this, er, gentleman on this topic.


In article ,
"michael adams" writes:
|
| Who's getting anything mangled Mr MacLaren ?

You are. Repeatedly.

| As has already been pointed out to you more than once, this
| is what Professor Saunders is quoted as saying on the BBC
| Website.
|
| Nothing to do with the "Guardian" at all, Mr MacLaren.

Ah. Well, if you start off long postings with abuse, don't expect
people to read them. I failed to notice you had introduced a new
reference. If I had, I could have pointed out that you had made
a new mistake.

| It is a natural cycle of a period of about 50 or 60 years," Professor
| Saunders told the BBC News website.

The previous paragraph stated what 'it' is:

The forecast spate of hurricanes in 2005 is part of a
multi-decadal cycle of fluctuating sea temperatures.

Yes, there are known, relatively stable cycles of fluctuating
sea temperatures, just as there is one of solar activity. It
is extremely unclear (nay, doubtful) that the stability of the
cycles is more than a temporary phenomenon, but something that
repeats more than once (even if with somewhat irregular timing)
can fairly be called a cycle. Do a Web search on 'el Nino' for
a the best known and most important of these.

I remain unconvinced about a 60 year cycle, but I have not looked
into that matter recently and don't know if there is any evidence
for it (there used not to be). But it isn't implausible.

This, however, has next to nothing to do with your original
claim, which was referring to European droughts and heatwaves.
There is very good evidence that they do NOT follow any regular
cycle, and adequate data going back centuries. There are known,
agreed meteorological reasons why relatively simple phenomena in
the Carribean do not cause simple phenomena in Europe.

Saunders will know all that, which is why he responded differently
to the different questions from the Guardian and BBC.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...


snip

Saunders will know all that, which is why he responded differently
to the different questions from the Guardian and BBC.



The work of the group led by Prof Saunders is 'showcased' (apologies if that
is not the correct word) at
http://forecast.mssl.ucl.ac.uk/
which includes a 'Publications' page of links to refereed papers and
conference papers which, I suggest, might go some way to putting some flesh
on the necessarily very bare bones of the BBC article, for those who are
interested.

On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 18:23:23 +0100, Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:
Variously it was written:
I could also add that the observations from previous
centuries are quite good enough in quality to debunk the theory
that there is a single predominant cycle.
Quite. I favour Velocette, but others like Triumph...
I read on teletext today that some ladies are cycling around england on
Harley-Davidson bikes.
I wasn't aware that they made bicycles!
I bet they have some thised thighs if they pedal them.
I wasn't aware that they made bikes !
( motorised armchairs, more like)
mallards

Bring back my trusty Comet and Rapide ,, I wish,,,,sigh,,,

Ah. Now you're talking. I hanker. (Though my Shadow was all packed with
Lightning internals...)

Great stuff ! My Rapide had a Shadow inside, but outside I decided not
to add a Shadow 'clock', nor badges, cos it might have attracted
unwelcome 'admiration',


swoon

martin wrote:
(WaltA) wrote:
PS Those ladies must have strong legs then, not to mention the thighs
and,,,
... predictable cycles?

:-) !
predictable ?
You are the Pope and I claim my 5quid