"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,

Are you absolutely sure of that?

Yes, with the emphasis on 'can'.

Really? I think that you have been taken in by an urban legend,
or perhaps tabloid sensationalism.


I think it may have some psychotropic (is that the right word) peoperties
but you would have to eat it or make tea with it at a guess. It did feature
in the daft Carlos Castaneda books about as something that native Americans
used to ehhhhhh become religious but now that I think about it, that does
not neccessarily mean anything.

Des


It is an EXTREMELY common plant in much of the world, and would
cause havoc if that were true. While toxins can be absorbed through
the skin, merely touching it will not transfer enough to cause any
significant effect, even in sensitive people. If you have any RELIABLE
information to the contrary, please post it.

I believe that the source of this myth is that you can be affected
if you are cutting it down or otherwise handling it in a way that
you get a significant amount of sap on your skin. In that, it
doesn't differ from quite a lot of poisonous plants.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
"Des Higgins" writes:
|
| I think it may have some psychotropic (is that the right word) peoperties
| but you would have to eat it or make tea with it at a guess. It did feature
| in the daft Carlos Castaneda books about as something that native Americans
| used to ehhhhhh become religious but now that I think about it, that does
| not neccessarily mean anything.

Yes. It was used medicinally and religiously, but you have to be
VERY careful not to overdose, and the effects are not necessarily
pleasant.

It is a common weed in hotter, drier countries, and people brush
against it with bare skin a great deal. Almost all such people
know better than to eat it.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Des Higgins" wrote in message
. ie...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,

Are you absolutely sure of that?

Yes, with the emphasis on 'can'.

Really? I think that you have been taken in by an urban legend,
or perhaps tabloid sensationalism.


I think it may have some psychotropic (is that the right word) peoperties
but you would have to eat it or make tea with it at a guess. It did
feature
in the daft Carlos Castaneda books about as something that native
Americans
used to ehhhhhh become religious but now that I think about it, that does
not neccessarily mean anything.

Apparently Castaneda made a lot of it up - but reading "Don Juan" never
persuaded me to go and munch on my Brugmansias - probably helped persuade me
to grow them though :-)

http://www.brugmansia.pwp.blueyonder...gfragrance.JPG

some solanacea in my garden in 2002 :-)




Des


It is an EXTREMELY common plant in much of the world, and would
cause havoc if that were true. While toxins can be absorbed through
the skin, merely touching it will not transfer enough to cause any
significant effect, even in sensitive people. If you have any RELIABLE
information to the contrary, please post it.

I believe that the source of this myth is that you can be affected
if you are cutting it down or otherwise handling it in a way that
you get a significant amount of sap on your skin. In that, it
doesn't differ from quite a lot of poisonous plants.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
gentlegreen wrote:

They did a datura experiment on channel4 once - didn't sound very
appealing
and not remotely like LSD / shroom-like in effect.

Yes. Its normal effects are certainly very different. But I am
quite sure that the subjects did not simply touch the plant :-)

Definitely solanaceae, but looks a bit more like an edible physalis of
some
sort - more likely to be mixed in with tomato seeeds I would have
thought ?

Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.

I've looked at it now - definitely not thorn apple, and not Physalis.
It's a shoo-fly, Nicandra physaloides. Still Solanaceae. It's widely
grown as an ornamental, and there is a strain available where the stems
and calyces are deep blue.

http://www.pfaf.org/database/plants....ra+physaloides

Perhaps if the OP would harvest some fruit we could all have a taste and
compare notes ? ;-)

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:w...es+scent&hl=en



-------------------------------

The identification on the clip-art ng as 'clematis family' is way off
the mark.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article ,
Jaques d'Alltrades writes:
| The message
| from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
|
| Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
| all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.
|
| Try the fruit of the common or garden Chinese lantern and watch your
| face in the mirror as you do so...

As with black nightshade, there are conflicting reports of its
edibility. In the case of black nightshade, there are reliable
claims that at least some strains, grown under at least some
conditions, are poisonous when ripe.

You've said this before, and I've yet to see any evidence of it, and Kew
confirms without any caveat that they are edible and widely eaten.

While you are correct that it is widely eaten, it is a mistake
to think that means that a plant is necessarily not poisonous.
It is quite common for some strains to contain a negligible
quantity of toxin, and others to contain a dangerous amount,
and equally common for different conditions to cause the same
effect.

I've been noshing them since I discovered (some time in the '60s) that
they were not poisonous, and from then have eaten them from the north of
Scotland to Dartmoor without ever having suffered any ill-effects.

IME such variation of toxicity in a species is restricted to fungi.

Note - *IME*.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
"Des Higgins" writes:
|
| I think it may have some psychotropic (is that the right word) peoperties
| but you would have to eat it or make tea with it at a guess. It did
|feature
| in the daft Carlos Castaneda books about as something that native Americans
| used to ehhhhhh become religious but now that I think about it, that does
| not neccessarily mean anything.

Yes. It was used medicinally and religiously, but you have to be
VERY careful not to overdose, and the effects are not necessarily
pleasant.

It is a common weed in hotter, drier countries, and people brush
against it with bare skin a great deal. Almost all such people
know better than to eat it.


Many years ago I witnessed a number of people eating the contents of
seed pods. I think they had between a half and two pods each but I can't
be sure.

The effects are pretty bizarre. First comes a feeling of incredible
heaviness and something feeling almost like paralysis. At this stage,
they were fully conscious and lying down flat on the floor. This
changes. Boy does it change.

The effects seemed to be very long lived - and the results seemed to be
an amlost total loss of normal consciousness - with intermittent flashes
back to it when made to concentrate on something. (Very intermittent).

Hallucinations were major and very real. Seashores in cupboards, rock
bands through toilet windows, white horses on the stairs etc. An almost
total lack of any self preserving senses. (Gas turned on and left;
eating anything that they can get hold of (although I think appetite was
generally suppressed). In fact, unlike some hallucenogenics, there
didn't seem to be much "stress", fear or panic involved.

Moreover, in some areas, there seemed to be an almost total loss of
inhibition. This seemed to be most prevalent in their use of the
toilet. (Sex didn't seem to be considered). In the group that I
babysat for, both males and females ended up peeing where ever they
stood - they did remove sufficent clothes, but then just peed on the
carpet. As soon as it was pointed out or someone tried to stop them,
they realised and acted almost embarrassed - but only for a few seconds.

I know of others that took it and went outside. A major threat to
themselves and traffic.

All in all, not something I'd ever consider taking - and you really need
a babysitter if you do.

I don't know the exact amounts taken - or how close they might have come
to being very dangerous. It seemed to take up to 24 hours to completely
wear off.

--
regards andyw

"newsb" wrote in message
...
In article , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
"Des Higgins" writes:
|
| I think it may have some psychotropic (is that the right word)
peoperties
| but you would have to eat it or make tea with it at a guess. It did
|feature
| in the daft Carlos Castaneda books about as something that native
Americans
| used to ehhhhhh become religious but now that I think about it, that
does
| not neccessarily mean anything.

Yes. It was used medicinally and religiously, but you have to be
VERY careful not to overdose, and the effects are not necessarily
pleasant.

It is a common weed in hotter, drier countries, and people brush
against it with bare skin a great deal. Almost all such people
know better than to eat it.


Many years ago I witnessed a number of people eating the contents of seed
pods. I think they had between a half and two pods each but I can't be
sure.

The effects are pretty bizarre. First comes a feeling of incredible
heaviness and something feeling almost like paralysis. At this stage,
they were fully conscious and lying down flat on the floor. This changes.
Boy does it change.

The effects seemed to be very long lived - and the results seemed to be an
amlost total loss of normal consciousness - with intermittent flashes back
to it when made to concentrate on something. (Very intermittent).

Hallucinations were major and very real. Seashores in

etc.
Holey Saint Imelda!!!!
I am glad I never bloody well ate that then.
During one daft undergraduate phase, I tried smoking Carroway seeds
(disgusting), dried banana skins
and eating nutmeg. All disguting and a waste of time, I am happy to point
out although very cheap should it ever
have become habit forming. I had heard of Datura and someone even gave me
some but it was dried leaves and I tried smoking it and it was basically (as
usual; wait for it) disgusting. It sounds like I was lucky. What you
described above
was serious. I later heard of one guy who took some (by ingestion of one
kind or another; I do not know) who woke up a day after taking it, not able
to remember anything and whose eyes remained out of focus for another day.
Makes Guinness sound almost harmless.

The message
from "Des Higgins" contains these words:

/datura/

I think it may have some psychotropic (is that the right word) peoperties
but you would have to eat it or make tea with it at a guess. It did
feature
in the daft Carlos Castaneda books about as something that native Americans
used to ehhhhhh become religious but now that I think about it, that does
not neccessarily mean anything.

The seeds are used - in moderation.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from "Des Higgins" contains these words:

Holey Saint Imelda!!!!
I am glad I never bloody well ate that then.
During one daft undergraduate phase, I tried smoking Carroway seeds
(disgusting),

Deliberately 'planted' urban legend, I believe.

dried banana skins

This was definitely put about to embarrass the 'authorities', and hoping
they'd be silly enough to ban bananas. (Hence the pop song 'They call it
Mellow Yellow'.

and eating nutmeg.

Nutmeg contains strychnine. But the word 'nutmeg' is used for a code for
cannabis resin.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
Jaques d'Alltrades wrote:

As with black nightshade, there are conflicting reports of its
edibility. In the case of black nightshade, there are reliable
claims that at least some strains, grown under at least some
conditions, are poisonous when ripe.

You've said this before, and I've yet to see any evidence of it, and Kew
confirms without any caveat that they are edible and widely eaten.

Which does not negate my point. I found it when looking up the
edibility of Physalis species in several books and papers that
described the edibility of the Solanaceae generally.

I've been noshing them since I discovered (some time in the '60s) that
they were not poisonous, and from then have eaten them from the north of
Scotland to Dartmoor without ever having suffered any ill-effects.

A piffling geographic range, and an even smaller varietal one. It
is a global species.

IME such variation of toxicity in a species is restricted to fungi.

No way. You can start with yams, almonds and French beans. In all
cases, the forms that we eat have been selected and bred for low
toxin levels. Toxicity is as variable as any other characteristic;
some plants will be fairly constant; others will be highly variable.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Martin Brown |||newspam
writes

You should see the laboratory MSDS for table salt, sugar or even pure
water.

There was a tagline doing the rounds about the dangers of Di-hydrogen
oxide 'causes several fatalities each year, gaseous form causes severe
skin lesions, implicated in every case of polluted streams and rivers'
... that sort of thing ;-)

http://www.dhmo.org/facts.html

:-)

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
k...
The message
from "Des Higgins" contains these words:

Holey Saint Imelda!!!!
I am glad I never bloody well ate that then.
During one daft undergraduate phase, I tried smoking Carroway seeds
(disgusting),

Deliberately 'planted' urban legend, I believe.

dried banana skins

This was definitely put about to embarrass the 'authorities', and hoping
they'd be silly enough to ban bananas. (Hence the pop song 'They call it
Mellow Yellow'.

and eating nutmeg.

Nutmeg contains strychnine.

nope - nux vomica is the only source so far as I know

Bad enough that the "strychnine in LSD" myth persists, but if nutmeg
contained strychnine, rice pudding would be on the list of banned
substances in the sports world...(it is a stimulant in low doses )
It'd probably do your internal organs no good if you did ingest sufficient
for an effect - it's the sort of desperate thing abused in by the
incarcerated ...

Best to stick to proper drugs.

But the word 'nutmeg' is used for a code for
cannabis resin.

only amongst ye sheddi I suspect ;-)




--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
gentlegreen wrote:

and eating nutmeg.

Nutmeg contains strychnine.

nope - nux vomica is the only source so far as I know

The active ingredient is myristine (or some name like that), and
is hallucinogenic - but it also causes very painful stomach cramps.
I have had the latter from it but not the former.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
gentlegreen wrote:

They did a datura experiment on channel4 once - didn't sound very appealing
and not remotely like LSD / shroom-like in effect.

Yes. Its normal effects are certainly very different. But I am
quite sure that the subjects did not simply touch the plant :-)

Definitely solanaceae, but looks a bit more like an edible physalis of some
sort - more likely to be mixed in with tomato seeeds I would have thought ?

Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.

IIRC, some Physalis aren't edible, but I don't recall species names. In
other cases the unripe fruits are toxic.

Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

gentlegreen wrote:

They did a datura experiment on channel4 once - didn't sound very appealing
and not remotely like LSD / shroom-like in effect.

I've had datura tea when I was a kid. There was cigarette burns on the
lino floor in the room we were in and my friend and I saw them moving.
So much so we boiled some water to throw on *them* because they started
*gathering* to obviously *attack* us. *They* eventually went away under
the door... I quite enjoyed the tea, because we perhaps put 5 sugar
cubes in the cups, but I certainly didn't enjoy the effects. Far too
negatives. The next day the cigarette burns marks were still there on
the lino flooring. We were releived.