If you look in the News Group alt.binaries.clip-art
you'll find a photo of a pretty plant . Its named DSCF0007
Is anyone able to name this plant which appeared in my greenhouse
- behind my tomatoes - this year?

I've taken off a few seeds to grow on, and I intend
cutting back the stem shortly,and perhaps transplant
the roots in a pot in a protected area.

I'd appreciate a name, and any advice that you
may be able to proffer.

NB: I posted the photo on that particular NG
because it's the only one I know where I'll
not be abused for placing something off subject.
Is there a NG which deals with gardening binaries?

john wrote:

Is there a NG which deals with gardening binaries?

Can you search your server's available newsgroups for key words? It took
me under a second to find alt.binaries.pictures.gardens.
If you have a personal web page, you could just put the picture there and
post a link in the appropriate newsgroup. Nobody (well, hardly anyone)
would complain about that.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

"john" wrote in message
...
If you look in the News Group alt.binaries.clip-art
you'll find a photo of a pretty plant . Its named DSCF0007
Is anyone able to name this plant which appeared in my greenhouse
- behind my tomatoes - this year?

I've taken off a few seeds to grow on, and I intend
cutting back the stem shortly,and perhaps transplant
the roots in a pot in a protected area.

I'd appreciate a name, and any advice that you
may be able to proffer.

NB: I posted the photo on that particular NG
because it's the only one I know where I'll
not be abused for placing something off subject.
Is there a NG which deals with gardening binaries?

It's a thorn apple or datura, all parts of it are toxic and merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD, looking at those pictures, I don't see any
'apples', there should be thorny hard fruits somewhere...Some of the other
names the plant goes by a Mad apple, apple of Peru, devil's apple,
devil's trumpet, devil's weed, stink weed, jimson weed, jamestown-weed,
malpitte, moonflower and witch's thimble.


see here for more details:
http://www.gardenorganic.org.uk/orga...weed.php?id=82

or go to google and type in datura

In article , Phil L
writes

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,



Are you absolutely sure of that?
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

"Kay" wrote in message
...
In article , Phil L
writes

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,



Are you absolutely sure of that?

Yes, with the emphasis on 'can'.

In article ,
Phil L wrote:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,

Are you absolutely sure of that?

Yes, with the emphasis on 'can'.

Really? I think that you have been taken in by an urban legend,
or perhaps tabloid sensationalism.

It is an EXTREMELY common plant in much of the world, and would
cause havoc if that were true. While toxins can be absorbed through
the skin, merely touching it will not transfer enough to cause any
significant effect, even in sensitive people. If you have any RELIABLE
information to the contrary, please post it.

I believe that the source of this myth is that you can be affected
if you are cutting it down or otherwise handling it in a way that
you get a significant amount of sap on your skin. In that, it
doesn't differ from quite a lot of poisonous plants.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Phil L wrote:
"Kay" wrote in message
...

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,

Are you absolutely sure of that?

Yes, with the emphasis on 'can'.

Really? I think that you have been taken in by an urban legend,
or perhaps tabloid sensationalism.

It is an EXTREMELY common plant in much of the world, and would
cause havoc if that were true. While toxins can be absorbed through
the skin, merely touching it will not transfer enough to cause any
significant effect, even in sensitive people. If you have any RELIABLE
information to the contrary, please post it.

I believe that the source of this myth is that you can be affected
if you are cutting it down or otherwise handling it in a way that
you get a significant amount of sap on your skin. In that, it
doesn't differ from quite a lot of poisonous plants.

They did a datura experiment on channel4 once - didn't sound very appealing
and not remotely like LSD / shroom-like in effect.

Definitely solanaceae, but looks a bit more like an edible physalis of some
sort - more likely to be mixed in with tomato seeeds I would have thought ?

When I say "edible", these things make me nervous - like the garden
huckleberry that looks very like a wild nightshade that used to spring up
all over my allotment ...



Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
gentlegreen wrote:

They did a datura experiment on channel4 once - didn't sound very appealing
and not remotely like LSD / shroom-like in effect.

Yes. Its normal effects are certainly very different. But I am
quite sure that the subjects did not simply touch the plant :-)

Definitely solanaceae, but looks a bit more like an edible physalis of some
sort - more likely to be mixed in with tomato seeeds I would have thought ?

Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 9/11/05 18:20, in article , "Kay"
wrote:

In article , Phil L
writes

merely touching
it can give you trips like LSD,



Are you absolutely sure of that?

Wow! I'm rushing straight out to the big double now, to caress the six
Daturas standing there. ;-) Up until now, it was a dull morning..... ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds to email me)

Dave Poole wrote:

I've heard all manner of scare stories about Datura and its close
relative Brugmansia. Most of them are sensationalist in the extreme -
probably due to scant information being incompletely understood from
internet sources.

And partly because some US jurisdictions have banned them. A pretty
stupid thing to do since some species grow wild over there.

*Not* from internet sources - here's as much as I've needed to learn:
The 'poisons' are amongst a group of alkaloids collectively known as
tropanes. In Brugmansia, Datura & Mandragora, the 3 most notable are
hyoscyamine, atropine & solanine. In these plants, concentrations are
always greatest in the seeds and roots, which means those are the most
poisonous parts of the plant.

It is my understanding that the molecules of these alkaloids do not
easily pass through the skin and therefore only large quantities of
sap allowed to remain in contact for a long time would be likely to
have an effect. With the exception of the very old, very young and
those with extreme allergic tendencies, the worst effects of
'systemic' absorption are likely to be nausea, disorientation and
tiredness lasting for about 24 hours.

The smell of a bruised leaf is enough to put most people off eating the
plant. I can smell/taste it when ever I've been handling them.

As to the dangers of anyone (children especially) accidentally chewing
on the leaves etc. trust me, the taste courtesy of these alkaloids is
very bitter and acrid. No-one would willingly and innocently chomp
enough to make them dangerously ill. I once tried a half cm. square
of leaf and it made me want to throw up immediately.

The seeds are pretty good as natural rodent bait. They invariably claim
a few field mice in my greenhouse during the winter. Some are not killed
outright but meander round in circles or figures of 8.

I'm not suggesting for a moment that there's absolutely no danger from
these plants - chewing on seeds, smoking handfuls of leaves etc. will
make you exceptionally ill and can be fatal. But, they are not as
spectacularly toxic from casual contact as sensationalists would have
us believe. In this context, buttercups and bluebells are equally as
dangerous. When handling the plants, wash afterwards, don't include
the leaves in salad and don't try to make tsizanes from any parts. In
other words, use a bit of common sense and you'll be perfectly all
right.

I think that is true. There are lots of other toxic plants around but a
handful of the most notorious ones get most of the attention. And not
necessarily in proportion to the threat they pose.

Unfortunately these days common sense is in short supply and everything
is labelled with hazard labels. You should see the laboratory MSDS for
table salt, sugar or even pure water.

Regards,
Martin Brown

In article , Martin Brown |||newspam
writes

You should see the laboratory MSDS for table salt, sugar or even pure water.

There was a tagline doing the rounds about the dangers of Di-hydrogen
oxide 'causes several fatalities each year, gaseous form causes severe
skin lesions, implicated in every case of polluted streams and rivers'
.... that sort of thing ;-)
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

In article , Nick Maclaren
writes
In article ,
gentlegreen wrote:

They did a datura experiment on channel4 once - didn't sound very appealing
and not remotely like LSD / shroom-like in effect.

Yes. Its normal effects are certainly very different. But I am
quite sure that the subjects did not simply touch the plant :-)

Definitely solanaceae, but looks a bit more like an edible physalis of some
sort - more likely to be mixed in with tomato seeeds I would have thought ?

Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.

I've looked at it now - definitely not thorn apple, and not Physalis.
It's a shoo-fly, Nicandra physaloides. Still Solanaceae. It's widely
grown as an ornamental, and there is a strain available where the stems
and calyces are deep blue.

The identification on the clip-art ng as 'clematis family' is way off
the mark.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

The message
from "gentlegreen"
contains these words:

/snip/

When I say "edible", these things make me nervous - like the garden
huckleberry that looks very like a wild nightshade that used to spring up
all over my allotment ...

The wild one's black nightshade, and is eaten on every continent except
Antarctica.

I gather pounds of the berries most years (on adjoining farmland, beside
sugar beet crops, mainly) and make nightshade pies with them. Not very
different from blueberries, though I sometimes add a small amount of
tartaric acid as they're rather bland otherwise.

I tend to munch a proportion of them as I pick them too, but you
shouldn't eat anything but the ripe berries of Solanum nigrum though.

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.

Try the fruit of the common or garden Chinese lantern and watch your
face in the mirror as you do so...

--
Rusty
horrid dot squeak snailything zetnet point co full-stop uk
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
Jaques d'Alltrades writes:
| The message
| from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
|
| Perhaps. Most of the Physalis are edible, but I am not sure whether
| all are. The genus is unusual among the Solanaceae in that respect.
|
| Try the fruit of the common or garden Chinese lantern and watch your
| face in the mirror as you do so...

As with black nightshade, there are conflicting reports of its
edibility. In the case of black nightshade, there are reliable
claims that at least some strains, grown under at least some
conditions, are poisonous when ripe.

While you are correct that it is widely eaten, it is a mistake
to think that means that a plant is necessarily not poisonous.
It is quite common for some strains to contain a negligible
quantity of toxin, and others to contain a dangerous amount,
and equally common for different conditions to cause the same
effect.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.