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#16
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OT?: Winemaking
The message
from David Rance contains these words: And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making, especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear. David (in Normandy!) That confirms a conclusion I was just reaching. I started a few different wines last summer and have had problems with them not clearing. On comparing notes with a neighbour, I was wondering whether it was because I'd added boiling water to the fruit. I shall try everything cold this year. My other concern is to try to make wine as organically as possible. I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their equipment? Janet G |
#17
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OT?: Winemaking
The message .com
from "Mike Lyle" contains these words: Larry Stoter wrote: [...] Mixed summer fruits works well, too - basically, anything that is around, boil it all up and add sugar to get the OG right. You do need a proper wine yeast. I'd never boil, though: for my taste, it spoils the flavour. I've never bothered with measuring OG, either: I just work on the principle that every quarter-pound of sugar in a gallon, if fermented right out, raises the alcohol by 1%. So for most fruits, three pounds or so, added in two or three stages, plus some grape juice or concentrate, is about right. Will soaked raisins do as well as grape juice? Janet G |
#18
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OT?: Winemaking
On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Janet Galpin wrote:
And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making, especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear. David (in Normandy!) That confirms a conclusion I was just reaching. I started a few different wines last summer and have had problems with them not clearing. On comparing notes with a neighbour, I was wondering whether it was because I'd added boiling water to the fruit. I shall try everything cold this year. My other concern is to try to make wine as organically as possible. I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their equipment? I'm not sure that even organic winemakers can do away with sulphur for sterilising (no matter what they may say!). I see no harm in adding one Campden tablet to every gallon (in the case of fruit wines that's about four pounds of fruit). Providing you are scrupulously clean then it shouldn't be necessary to add any more. I never do. The reason I am sceptical about organic grape wines is that it is virtually impossible to grow grapes without resorting to spraying against the mildews (powdery and downy). If I didn't spray regularly I would lose the whole crop - and have done in the past when I didn't spray! David (in Normandy!) -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#19
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OT?: Winemaking
David (in Normandy!)
-- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France Two David's in Normandy posting on URG - now that does sound confusing :-) (Un)fortunately I can't say narrow it down and say "David in Calvados" since it appears we both live there too. Perhaps I could sign my posts David (near Vire, Normandy) since we are fairly close to the town. It is only a matter of time I suppose before there are other David's in Vire in Calvados in Normandy posting too. There seems to be more Brits around here than French :-) Ou revoir! David near Vire in Calvados in Normandy in France. |
#20
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OT?: Winemaking
Dear David near Vire in Calvados in Normandy In France In Europe,
it's a pity you can't post a picture of any distinguishing marks. Or, don a shower cap, like Rupert does (to distinguish him from other posters called Don, and any passing goats). Janet (not the one near Amersham, in Bucks, in England: the other one.) There is actually a recent picture of me on the blog. However, fortunately or unfortunately depending upon your perspective, not much of me is visible since I'm donned head to toe in protective gear, poised ready to spread the quicklime I accidentally bought instead of slaked lime. If the other David in Calvados in Normandy happens to read this - do you know your potato varieties in French? I set half a dozen different varieties from Point Vert and they all died down a month ago. Does this mean I accidentally bought all early varieties or is it due to the very hot and dry conditions we've been having? They didn't get any extra watering since we're on a meter. -- David .... Email address on website http://www.avisoft.co.uk .... Blog at http://dlts-french-adventures.blogspot.com/ |
#21
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OT?: Winemaking
David Rance wrote: On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote: I'd never boil, though: for my taste, it spoils the flavour. I've never bothered with measuring OG, either: I just work on the principle that every quarter-pound of sugar in a gallon, if fermented right out, raises the alcohol by 1%. So for most fruits, three pounds or so, added in two or three stages, plus some grape juice or concentrate, is about right. Quarter of a pound of sugar will produce 1.5% alcohol in every gallon (source: Peter Duncan and Brian Acton - forgotten the name of the book as I don't have it here in Normandy). Yes, you're right: sorry. I find even my own notes say so. I haven't done it for two years. Memory like, er, what do you call those things with holes in? And adding three pounds of sugar all in one go is likely to inhibit the yeast and the fermentation will possibly have difficulty in starting. Yes: hence my suggestion of adding it in two or three stages. Like yours, my target is, or was, about 12%. [...] And you're right - never, NEVER, boil the fruit for wine-making, especially if it contains pectin. If you do the haze will never clear. Another poster has mentioned the question of sterilisation. Sulphur and bleach, or fancy proprietary products (also chlorine-based, I suppose), are the only methods I know about: copper sulphate's allowed under organic rules in Bordeaux mixture, so I don't see why a sulphite shouldn't be allowed for sterilising. In the old days, I think they used to sterilise casks by fumigating them with burning sulphur. To stabilise finished wine, Campden tablets (sodium metabisulphite) are usual; but some people react to it, so ascorbic acid (vitamin C) can be used instead -- though I've never tried it. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that sulphite isn't organically acceptable as an additive in the wine itself: producers probably rely on good hygiene to protect the wine in bottle. But when your only customer is yourself, you can bend the rules. -- Mike. |
#22
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OT?: Winemaking
Janet Galpin wrote: The message .com from "Mike Lyle" contains these words: Larry Stoter wrote: [...] Mixed summer fruits works well, too - basically, anything that is around, boil it all up and add sugar to get the OG right. You do need a proper wine yeast. I'd never boil, though: for my taste, it spoils the flavour. I've never bothered with measuring OG, either: I just work on the principle that every quarter-pound of sugar in a gallon, if fermented right out, raises the alcohol by [[WRONG]] 1%. [[WRONG]] So for most fruits, [[WRONG]] three pounds or so [[WRONG]], added in two or three stages, plus some grape juice or concentrate, is about right. Will soaked raisins do as well as grape juice? Yes, but they have a characteristic flavour, which you may not want in ordinary wines, though it can be nice in a stronger dessert one. Sultanas may be a better everyday choice: more expensive ones are usually better, I'm afraid. A p.i.t.b. is that dried fruit is often lightly treated with preservative or liquid paraffin or both: a swish round in boiling water should get rid well enough. Once soaked, they need to be broken up: squdging with clean hands or a potato masher will do it. And _please_ note that my remark above about sugar is a bad bloomer. As David points out, you get 1.5% for each quarter of a pound of white sugar. For 12%, 2 lb sugar. Of course, you're doing well if you achieve that (and the theoretical maximum is a little higher). In a book, I've scribbled that sultanas and raisins contain between 50 and 75% sugar; so an average to work by is about 60%. Allow for that when adding sugar; but I really don't think precision is necessary. In the real world you won't get all the sugar out of the dried fruit anyway. -- Mike. |
#23
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OT?: Winemaking
"Mike Lyle" wrote in message oups.com... David Rance wrote: On Sun, 6 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote: I'd never boil, though: for my taste, it spoils the flavour. I've never bothered with measuring OG, either: I just work on the principle that every quarter-pound of sugar in a gallon, if fermented right out, raises the alcohol by 1%. So for most fruits, three pounds or so, added in two or three stages, plus some grape juice or concentrate, is about right. Quarter of a pound of sugar will produce 1.5% alcohol in every gallon (source: Peter Duncan and Brian Acton - forgotten the name of the book as I don't have it here in Normandy). Yes, you're right: sorry. I find even my own notes say so. I haven't done it for two years. Memory like, er, what do you call those things with holes in? Sorry I can't remember!(:-) Aloan |
#24
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OT?: Winemaking
On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:
David (in Normandy!) -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France Two David's in Normandy posting on URG - now that does sound confusing :-) (Un)fortunately I can't say narrow it down and say "David in Calvados" since it appears we both live there too. Perhaps I could sign my posts David (near Vire, Normandy) since we are fairly close to the town. It is only a matter of time I suppose before there are other David's in Vire in Calvados in Normandy posting too. There seems to be more Brits around here than French :-) Ou revoir! David near Vire in Calvados in Normandy in France. I must confess I signed myself David (in Normandy!) just to tease you! But maybe I could pull rank and say that I'm the real David in Normandy because I was here first (sixteen years ago). On the other hand you could pull rank by saying that you're here all the time! Never mind, it produced some amusement! Still the Normans round here would say that you're the foreigner as you live the other side of Condé-sur-Noireau. Have you noticed how parochial they are? My next door neighbour was outraged once because some people from St. Omer came and picked over the déchets in our commune. "Who do they think they are?" he demanded. But he was a great gardener. He looked after our vegetable garden while we were away. When we were there we had the vegetables, when we were back in England he had them. He kept rabbits in our hutches and sheep in our meadow and he shared the meat with us. Unfortunately he died last October. To be more precise, he committed suicide because he was 81 years old and was losing his strength rapidly to the point where he couldn't do our gardens any more. He couldn't face life as a permanent invalid unable to do any gardening and so he topped himself. He went up to his cider shed and hanged himself. David (only sometimes in Normandy!) -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#25
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OT?: Winemaking
On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, David (in Normandy) wrote:
If the other David in Calvados in Normandy happens to read this - do you know your potato varieties in French? I set half a dozen different varieties from Point Vert and they all died down a month ago. Does this mean I accidentally bought all early varieties or is it due to the very hot and dry conditions we've been having? They didn't get any extra watering since we're on a meter. Unfortunately I cannot help. I planted three varieties myself this year, one early and two late and they both matured at the same time. The same thing happened on my allotment in Reading. I think it's just a funny year. We're on a meter here too, but fortunately we have a well and a horse trough. Also we have a communal well down by the River Orne so we're well off for water for irrigation. Interestingly, in times of drought we are not allowed to use water from the well from 8 a.m. to 8 p.m. I suppose it's so that it doesn't get wasted during the day by evaporation. David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#26
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OT?: Winemaking
On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Mike Lyle wrote:
Another poster has mentioned the question of sterilisation. Sulphur and bleach, or fancy proprietary products (also chlorine-based, I suppose), are the only methods I know about: copper sulphate's allowed under organic rules in Bordeaux mixture, so I don't see why a sulphite shouldn't be allowed for sterilising. In the old days, I think they used to sterilise casks by fumigating them with burning sulphur. They still do. In fact in most of the vineyards that I've visited they ferment in stainless steel vessels and then rack the wine off into oak casks to mature. Oak is still an important flavour in fine wines. You often see "matured in oak" on the labels. To stabilise finished wine, Campden tablets (sodium metabisulphite) are usual; but some people react to it, so ascorbic acid (vitamin C) can be used instead -- though I've never tried it. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that sulphite isn't organically acceptable as an additive in the wine itself: producers probably rely on good hygiene to protect the wine in bottle. There has been a problem with some producers, whose hygiene leaves a little to be desired, using too much sulphur to stabilise the wine. You can often see wine tasters on television complaining about the amount of sulphur in the wines. David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#27
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OT?: Winemaking
In article , David Rance writes: | | There has been a problem with some producers, whose hygiene leaves a | little to be desired, using too much sulphur to stabilise the wine. You | can often see wine tasters on television complaining about the amount of | sulphur in the wines. It's nothing to do with hygiene, and a great deal to do with chance and alcoholic strength. The things that they are trying to kill are as normal and widespread as the yeasts. Regards, Nick Maclaren. |
#28
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OT?: Winemaking
On Mon, 7 Aug 2006, Nick Maclaren wrote:
| There has been a problem with some producers, whose hygiene leaves a | little to be desired, using too much sulphur to stabilise the wine. You | can often see wine tasters on television complaining about the amount of | sulphur in the wines. It's nothing to do with hygiene, and a great deal to do with chance and alcoholic strength. The things that they are trying to kill are as normal and widespread as the yeasts. Well, yes you're right in that some French producers (on the advice I am reliably informed of an English wine producer, whose word I don't trust for a minute) are now using massive doses of sulphur to kill off natural yeasts and introducing cultivated yeasts. Now this is a practice well known to English winemakers, especially where the wine yeasts are not endemic but not, I would have thought, worth doing on the continent. But even in my own humble little vineyard I have managed to get a wine yeast to stay around to the extent that I haven't used a yeast starter for some years and rely entirely on one Campden tablet per gallon to kill off any apiculata yeasts and then let the natural wine yeast do its work. And it *does* work. David -- David Rance http://www.mesnil.demon.co.uk Fido Address: 2:252/110 writing from Le Mesnil Villement, Calvados, France |
#29
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OT?: Winemaking
On 7/8/06 21:27, in article ,
"David Rance" wrote: snip There has been a problem with some producers, whose hygiene leaves a little to be desired, using too much sulphur to stabilise the wine. You can often see wine tasters on television complaining about the amount of sulphur in the wines. I seem to remember being told in USA that the cheaper the wine in the first place, the more sulphur used and that it could give some people really dreadful headaches. I can certainly bear witness to the latter! -- Sacha www.hillhousenursery.co.uk South Devon (email address on website) |
#30
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OT?: Winemaking
Janet Galpin wrote: I presume Sodium metabisulphite is fairly harmless but wouldn't qualify as organic. What would organic wine-makers use to sterilise their equipment? Janet G Fairly harmless?? Not according to the chemical industry. SAFETY DATA SHEET SODIUM METABISULPHITE Page 1 Issued: 25/09/2002 Revision No: 1 1. IDENTIFICATION OF THE SUBSTANCE / PREPARATION AND OF THE COMPANY / UNDERTAKING Product name: SODIUM METABISULPHITE Use / description of product: Harmful. 3. HAZARDS IDENTIFICATION Main hazards: Harmful if swallowed. Risk of serious damage to eyes. 4. FIRST AID MEASURES (SYMPTOMS) Skin contact: There may be mild irritation at the site of contact. Eye contact: There may be irritation and redness. Ingestion: There may be soreness and redness of the mouth and throat. There may be difficulty swallowing. Nausea and stomach pain may occur. There may be vomiting. Inhalation: Absorption through the lungs can occur causing symptoms similar to those of ingestion. 4. FIRST AID MEASURES (ACTION) Skin contact: Wash immediately with plenty of soap and water. Eye contact: Bathe the eye with running water for 15 minutes. Ingestion: Wash out mouth with water. Do not induce vomiting. If conscious, give half a litre of water to drink immediately. Transfer to hospital as soon as possible. Inhalation: Remove casualty from exposure ensuring one's own safety whilst doing so. Consult a doctor. |
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