On 17/10/06 00:21, in article ,
"Roger" wrote:

I have a great specimen of Pinus Maratima growing in my garden. I
grew it from seed from a cone which I brought back from the
southern area of Bordeaux.

It is now about 15 years old. I'm told that it is too far north
(I live in the central belt of Scotland) for it to produce
cones. Anyone here know if this information is accurate?

The cone from which the seed came from was 9" in length and 5"
across its broadest part. Give or take a quarter of an inch.

I don't know if this will help but an enquiry to them might. I got two
Pinus sylvestris from them and that's another name for Pinus maritima,
apparently.
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/courses.html

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

Sacha wrote:
On 17/10/06 00:21, in article ,
"Roger" wrote:

I have a great specimen of Pinus Maratima growing in my garden. I
grew it from seed from a cone which I brought back from the
southern area of Bordeaux.

It is now about 15 years old. I'm told that it is too far north
(I live in the central belt of Scotland) for it to produce
cones. Anyone here know if this information is accurate?

The cone from which the seed came from was 9" in length and 5"
across its broadest part. Give or take a quarter of an inch.

I don't know if this will help but an enquiry to them might. I got two
Pinus sylvestris from them and that's another name for Pinus maritima,
apparently.
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/courses.html

Surely P. sylvestris is the Scots/Caledonian pine? Maritime is (it says
here) P. pinaster. One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there. You can expect cones from trees ten years old,
apparently; fifteen years is within the margin of error for this kind
of thing, but it could be a sign that, as a Med species, it's too far
north.

If Agroforestry don't know, the Edinburgh Bot. Gardens may have mature
specimens you can eyeball (and it's an excuse to visit a great place).

--
Mike.

On 17/10/06 15:01, in article
, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:


Sacha wrote:
On 17/10/06 00:21, in article ,
"Roger" wrote:

I have a great specimen of Pinus Maratima growing in my garden. I
grew it from seed from a cone which I brought back from the
southern area of Bordeaux.

It is now about 15 years old. I'm told that it is too far north
(I live in the central belt of Scotland) for it to produce
cones. Anyone here know if this information is accurate?

The cone from which the seed came from was 9" in length and 5"
across its broadest part. Give or take a quarter of an inch.

I don't know if this will help but an enquiry to them might. I got two
Pinus sylvestris from them and that's another name for Pinus maritima,
apparently.
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/courses.html

Surely P. sylvestris is the Scots/Caledonian pine? Maritime is (it says
here) P. pinaster. One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

I looked it up and found them all lumped together on a couple of sites,
which wasn't very helpful. I think/hope the chap at agroforestry at
Dartington would be able to help the OP. But no, I couldn't see anything
about the age at which they fruit. However, some time ago, I did find a
site I'll hunt for again if I can, because it told me that our Pinus
montezuma tends to wait for 50 to 60 years to fruit and then dies quite soon
afterwards! As we reckon ours must be over 50 years old, I don't know
whether to hope it fruits soon, so that we see it and can reproduce it, or
whether to hope it keeps going for years longer!

You can expect cones from trees ten years old,
apparently; fifteen years is within the margin of error for this kind
of thing, but it could be a sign that, as a Med species, it's too far
north.

If Agroforestry don't know, the Edinburgh Bot. Gardens may have mature
specimens you can eyeball (and it's an excuse to visit a great place).

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

If Agroforestry don't know, the Edinburgh Bot. Gardens may have mature
specimens you can eyeball (and it's an excuse to visit a great place).


Alternatively, Dawyck Botanical gardens in Peebles have a special
collection of Pinus. 24 species and 147 different plants apparently.
http://www.plantnetwork.org/directory/dawyck.htm
I'm sure someone there would know and they also may have mature
specimens you can eyeball (and it's an excuse to visit another great
place).

In article ,
Roger wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time, depending on what I had left over
from the previous year (small plant pots). I planted out the following
year in remote inaccessible places all over Scotland in groups of 3, 5
sometimes 1. Most of the ones I have re-visited are growing well. Some
I planted on land just behind the sea shore. All of the sites are
remote well away from paths and roads. I would like to see at least
one fruit before the Grim Reaper decides to harvest me.

I'll certainly visit the gardens mentioned. I still do a lot of
walking and visiting.

Thanks.

Roger.

Its delightful to see someone spending time and effort on deliberately
contaminating our wild flora, though I have a suspicion that humans have
been doing this sort of thing sporadically for centuries anyway.

Why is the Norfolk coast solid with Holm Oaks? Why does
Sea buckthorn (Hippophae rhamnoides) grow on Spurn head and
in the Lincolnshire coast and also the mountainous regions of China and
Russia?

Any chance of doing the same with Wollemi pine?

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:59:25 +0100, Sacha wrote:


I don't know if this will help but an enquiry to them might. I got two
Pinus sylvestris from them and that's another name for Pinus maritima,
apparently.
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/courses.html

I agree with Mike: P. maritima is better known as P. pinaster, and is
not P. sylvestris.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

Roger wrote:
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:05:57 +0100, John McMillan
wrote:

In article ,
Roger wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time, depending on what I had left over
from the previous year (small plant pots). I planted out the following
year in remote inaccessible places all over Scotland in groups of 3, 5
sometimes 1. Most of the ones I have re-visited are growing well. Some
I planted on land just behind the sea shore. All of the sites are
remote well away from paths and roads. I would like to see at least
one fruit before the Grim Reaper decides to harvest me.

I'll certainly visit the gardens mentioned. I still do a lot of
walking and visiting.

Thanks.

Roger.

Its delightful to see someone spending time and effort on deliberately
contaminating our wild flora, though I have a suspicion that humans have
been doing this sort of thing sporadically for centuries anyway.

Why is the Norfolk coast solid with Holm Oaks? Why does
Sea buckthorn (Hippophae rhamnoides) grow on Spurn head and
in the Lincolnshire coast and also the mountainous regions of China and
Russia?

Any chance of doing the same with Wollemi pine?

I was and still am amazed at the size of the cones. I visited that
particular forest when they were still collecting the resin. I must
admit I have a personal investment in spreading that particular pine.
The locals did a spirit based drink for congestion, colds, flu and any
other excuse you can name. It tasted like delux Drambuie only more
aromatic. It cleared more than your tubes. Grown on its own it's a
beautiful tree. I like it.


Roger, you're a hooligan. I'm authorised by the Prime Minister to tell
you: remove that hoodie at once!

I can't see it doing any harm, unless two hundred years down the line
it turns out to be the new Rhododendron ponticum -- which, frankly,
seems wildly unlikely to me. Future generations of sufferers may
instead have cause to thank you. Do you know the name of the appetizing
medicine? I'm always up for trying a new herbal compound.

I'm sure you and John are wealthy enough to spread Wollemi pines around
the banks and braes. (I wonder what that tastes like?)

--
Mike.

Roger Heatherington wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time, depending on what I had left over
from the previous year (small plant pots). I planted out the following
year in remote inaccessible places all over Scotland in groups of 3, 5
sometimes 1. Most of the ones I have re-visited are growing well. Some
I planted on land just behind the sea shore. All of the sites are
remote well away from paths and roads. I would like to see at least
one fruit before the Grim Reaper decides to harvest me.

I'll certainly visit the gardens mentioned. I still do a lot of
walking and visiting.

Thanks.

Roger.
Words fail me. I am going to try to be diplomatic but this, being generous,
is an extremely unwise course of action. Pinus maritima is a notoriously
invasive plant that has caused trouble all over the world. Sperading it
around could be like spreading Japanese Knotweed, Himalayan Balsam, or
Rhododendron ponticum. You should try to understand things before you try
to meddle with them.


Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

John McMillan wrote:

In article ,
Roger wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time, depending on what I had left over
from the previous year (small plant pots). I planted out the following
year in remote inaccessible places all over Scotland in groups of 3, 5
sometimes 1. Most of the ones I have re-visited are growing well. Some
I planted on land just behind the sea shore. All of the sites are
remote well away from paths and roads. I would like to see at least
one fruit before the Grim Reaper decides to harvest me.

I'll certainly visit the gardens mentioned. I still do a lot of
walking and visiting.

Thanks.

Roger.

Its delightful to see someone spending time and effort on deliberately
contaminating our wild flora, though I have a suspicion that humans have
been doing this sort of thing sporadically for centuries anyway.

Why is the Norfolk coast solid with Holm Oaks? Why does
Sea buckthorn (Hippophae rhamnoides) grow on Spurn head and
in the Lincolnshire coast and also the mountainous regions of China and
Russia?

Any chance of doing the same with Wollemi pine?


I don't think it is delightful at all.

Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

Mike Lyle wrote:


Roger wrote:
On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 19:05:57 +0100, John McMillan
wrote:

In article ,
Roger wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time, depending on what I had left over
from the previous year (small plant pots). I planted out the following
year in remote inaccessible places all over Scotland in groups of 3, 5
sometimes 1. Most of the ones I have re-visited are growing well. Some
I planted on land just behind the sea shore. All of the sites are
remote well away from paths and roads. I would like to see at least
one fruit before the Grim Reaper decides to harvest me.

I'll certainly visit the gardens mentioned. I still do a lot of
walking and visiting.

Thanks.

Roger.

Its delightful to see someone spending time and effort on deliberately
contaminating our wild flora, though I have a suspicion that humans have
been doing this sort of thing sporadically for centuries anyway.

Why is the Norfolk coast solid with Holm Oaks? Why does
Sea buckthorn (Hippophae rhamnoides) grow on Spurn head and
in the Lincolnshire coast and also the mountainous regions of China and
Russia?

Any chance of doing the same with Wollemi pine?

I was and still am amazed at the size of the cones. I visited that
particular forest when they were still collecting the resin. I must
admit I have a personal investment in spreading that particular pine.
The locals did a spirit based drink for congestion, colds, flu and any
other excuse you can name. It tasted like delux Drambuie only more
aromatic. It cleared more than your tubes. Grown on its own it's a
beautiful tree. I like it.


Roger, you're a hooligan. I'm authorised by the Prime Minister to tell
you: remove that hoodie at once!

I can't see it doing any harm, unless two hundred years down the line
it turns out to be the new Rhododendron ponticum -- which, frankly,
seems wildly unlikely to me.

I can very well see this doing harm.

Unfortunately it is more than likely because it has done just that in other
places.




Future generations of sufferers may
instead have cause to thank you. Do you know the name of the appetizing
medicine? I'm always up for trying a new herbal compound.

I wonder how many people curse the plonker who introduced Japanese Knotweed.



I'm sure you and John are wealthy enough to spread Wollemi pines around
the banks and braes. (I wonder what that tastes like?)



Neil Jones
http://www.butterflyguy.com/

Roger wrote:
On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time,


http://www.issg.org/database/species...i=43&fr=1&sts=
This species has been nominated as among 100 of the "World's Worst" invaders


well done!

pk

On 17/10/06 19:34, in article ,
"Chris Hogg" wrote:

On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 09:59:25 +0100, Sacha wrote:


I don't know if this will help but an enquiry to them might. I got two
Pinus sylvestris from them and that's another name for Pinus maritima,
apparently.
http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/courses.html

I agree with Mike: P. maritima is better known as P. pinaster, and is
not P. sylvestris.


Good and thank you.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

p.k. wrote:
Roger wrote:
On 17 Oct 2006 07:01:35 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

One of my books says the maritime pine grows, as an
introduction, in the Highlands; but none says anything about its
failing to fruit there.

Maybe I shouldn't admit to this but what can they do to me now?
I harvested only the biggest seeds from the cones, about 200 of them.
Over a period of 4 years I planted them out in individual plant pots
around about 20 to 30 at a time,


http://www.issg.org/database/species...i=43&fr=1&sts=
This species has been nominated as among 100 of the "World's Worst" invaders

Well, it doesn't do to be complacent, and it seems I was. But I note
from the site mentioned that its typical native habitat is dense
sclerophyllous woodland: I don't think there's too much of that in
Scotland. It's presumably significant that the plant has become a pest
in dryer zones, but doesn't seem to have colonised non-Mediterranean
Europe, though it's had since the last ice age to do so. It's also had
ample time to escape from British gardens and arboreta, and has indeed
established itself in some places, but I haven't heard that it's
present in overwhelming numbers.

Jap knotweed and Rhodo ponticum (and, in America, tamarisks) have found
conditions similar to their home range but geographically isolated from
the competitors, insects, and diseases which keep them in check there.
P. pinaster hasn't had these advantages in the British Isles, so on the
whole I don't think Roger should go around digging out his specimens.
Even if the climate continues to warm up, there are far too many of
these trees already established for Roger's to make any difference --
and anyhow, in those conditions they'd be likely to colonise naturally.
But I repeat, one shouldn't be complacent.

--
Mike.

On 18/10/06 00:18, in article ,
"Roger" wrote:

On 17 Oct 2006 15:49:46 -0700, "Mike Lyle"
wrote:

P. pinaster hasn't had these advantages in the British Isles, so on the
whole I don't think Roger should go around digging out his specimens.

I can assure you Roger will not be going around digging up anything
except his potatoes and that will only be twice a year, and only if
his wife won't do it for him.

I've found all contributions to be of interest and helpful. I stopped
planting them years ago only because I ran out of seeds.


Ray told me last night when I finally had time to discuss this with him,
that P. maritima and P. sylvestris are definitely not one and the same,
which is the wrong impression I'd gleaned. But he isn't at all sure how P.
maritima will do in different parts of UK. We're still trying to figure out
where to plant the two P. sylvestris I got him last Christmas!!

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/

In article ,
Neil Jones wrote:



I wonder how many people curse the plonker who introduced Japanese Knotweed.


Well I do for one. But in the next thought I laud the people who
introduced rosa rugosa, potatoes and sedum spectabile.


I'm sure you and John are wealthy enough to spread Wollemi pines around
the banks and braes. (I wonder what that tastes like?)

We might need some financial assistance on this project in the early
stages.
As yet there appear to be no recipes for Wollemi pines. Apparently
the seeds of standard monkey puzzle trees are very tasty though.

Anyway Pinus maritima isn't a noxious weed but is a "useful plant".
Here it is on a page of "Useful Plants of the World
[formerly Listing of Potential New Crops for Australia]"

http://www.newcrops.uq.edu.au/listing/pinusmaritima.htm

About halfway down is a paper which presumably studies p.maritima
amongst others.

Philipson, J. J. (1997). Predicting cone crop potential in conifers by
assessment of developing cone buds and cones. Forestry Oxford 70(1):
87-96. Forestry Commission Res. Div., Northern Res. Stn., Roslin,
Midlothian EH25 9SY, UK

So it looks like Mr/Ms Phillips at Roslin probably knows the answer to
your question.