BoyPete wrote:
Yes, I understand that now. Still, it's very off-putting to the likes
of me to see all that Latin in a post, and I tend to skip
them.....possibly missing some useful info.

Yes... "foetida" means the plant smells awful! We still have foetid in
common usage in English. Paederia foetida (Skunk vine) smells like skunks.
Much of English has come from Latin. Many latin names have colours in them,
alba for white, nigra for black. Or clues as to habit, tortuosa, contorta
and prostrata for tortuous, contorted and prostrate. Names crop up too...
anything with williamsii in the name was discovered and catalogued by a chap
called Williams for instance.

Carl Linnaeus (1707-1778) started naming plants with two latin names. The
first one being the genus. This just means a group of plants with the same
characteristics. Malus is the group name for apples. Malus domestica is the
domesticated apple we grow for fruit. But Malus sylvestris is the common
crab apple.

I enjoy learning the names, what they mean and getting my tongue round them.
It adds some depth to the hobby. Many interesting links crop up that may
suprise too. The genus Solanum is one...

Solanum tuberosum - Potato
" capsicum - Chilli
" lycopersicum -Tomato
" melongena - Aubergine

If you didn't know the latin would you have thought all these could be
related? (In fact the flowers are a dead giveaway, they all look like old
fashioned turks headgear. It was the characteristics of flowers ie; number
of petals, stamen ect. that Linnaeus first used to catagorise plant groups)

Here's wikipedia on Solanum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solanum and on the
right hand side of the page you can see the classification order of plants
from Kingdom (Plantae) all the way down to Genus (Solanum). All organisms
are named in much the same way.... Rattus norvegicus is the Brown rat for
example but under the kindom of Animalia down to the Genus Rattus.

And the RHS on plant naming...
http://www.rhs.org.uk/RHSPlantFinder/plantnaming.asp


Les






--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply direct.


"Oh Bother!" said the Borg, "We've assimilated Pooh!"

"That's 10 times I've explained binary to you. I won't tell you a 3rd
time!"


http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/

http://www.richarddawkins.net/index.php


Les Hemmings a.a #2251 SA

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| Yes. The genus Rosa is part or all [1] of the tribe Roseae which is part
| of subfamily Rosoideae which is part of family Rosaceae.

And, if you like tribal warfare, just try and work out the level at
which the pear group (including quinces) is separated from the apple
group :-) That feud has been simmering for a century and a half,
with most people saying "a plague on both your houses"!


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
"Les Hemmings" writes:
|
| I enjoy learning the names, what they mean and getting my tongue round them.
| It adds some depth to the hobby. Many interesting links crop up that may
| suprise too. The genus Solanum is one...
|
| Solanum tuberosum - Potato
| " capsicum - Chilli
| " lycopersicum -Tomato
| " melongena - Aubergine

Well, that's one classification. In others, chillis and tomatoes are
in separate species. And there is considerable debate over exactly
how chillis should be classified (as there is with squashes).

If you take the classifications as any more than a convenience, you
will assuredly go mad. There ARE important scientific reasons to
prefer one classification over another, but they are largely
irrelevant to anyone except the more academic botanists.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| When was that introduced? And is it sufficiently flexible to cancel
| that damn-fool V. farreri and similar namings?
|
| I don't know when it was introduced.

I know that it was after 1970.

| I doubt that the relevant committee would reverse a 40 year old name
| change. But, if I understand the situation with Vibernum dubium,
| fragrans and farreri (Viburnum fragans Loisel. a rarely used synonym of
| Viburnum dubium, and an early homonym of the widely used Viburnum
| fragrans Bunge), a proposal for conservation in a similar situation
| would probably pass nowadays.

That's what I thought :-(

But I might be wrong. If you care enough you could drop a note to the
editor of Taxon and see if they would entertain a proposal to conserve
Viburnum fragrans Bunge against Viburnum farreri Loisel. (However as
there are 18,500 hits in Google for "Viburnum farreri" and 1,110 for
"Viburnum fragrans" it seems that the balance of usage has swung against
you.)


The point there (and with some other widely grown plants, the names
of which escape me for now), that name change replaced a 100 year
established and widespread usage. Even today, I suspect that the
name V. fragrans is more commonly published than V. farreri. In
fact, I doubt that V. farreri will EVER replace V. fragrans in
horticultural usage.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

In message , Nick Maclaren
writes

In article ,
"Les Hemmings" writes:
|
| I enjoy learning the names, what they mean and getting my tongue
|round them.
| It adds some depth to the hobby. Many interesting links crop up that may
| suprise too. The genus Solanum is one...
|
| Solanum tuberosum - Potato
| " capsicum - Chilli
| " lycopersicum -Tomato
| " melongena - Aubergine

Well, that's one classification. In others, chillis and tomatoes are
in separate species. And there is considerable debate over exactly
how chillis should be classified (as there is with squashes).

DNA data has tomato deep within Solanum - in fact as closer to potatoes
that are many other unquestioned species of Solanum - which is why the
botanists have moved tomatoes back into Solanum.

However, Solanum capsicum isn't chilli; it's Jerusalem Cherry. Chillis
are Capsicum species, and belong to the same group of Solanaceae as
Solanum, but within any concept of Solanum with any degree of
acceptance.

If you take the classifications as any more than a convenience, you
will assuredly go mad. There ARE important scientific reasons to
prefer one classification over another, but they are largely
irrelevant to anyone except the more academic botanists.

--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

Sacha wrote:

Er, yes. ;-) I'll feel better when the aspirin start to work.

Ahaaa! Aspirin, made from Salicylic acid, which is made from Salicin, which
is an extract from the bark of...... (drum roll.... ) Salix alba! (White
Willow)

Les


--
Remove Frontal Lobes to reply direct.


"Oh Bother!" said the Borg, "We've assimilated Pooh!"

"That's 10 times I've explained binary to you. I won't tell you a 3rd
time!"


http://armsofmorpheus.blogspot.com/

http://www.richarddawkins.net/index.php


Les Hemmings a.a #2251 SA

On Feb 25, 1:29 pm, Stewart Robert Hinsley
wrote:
In message .com, Rob
Hamadi writes

So Rosaceae (the family) is distinct from Rosa (the genus)? I live and
learn. Would I be correct in saying that Rosa is a subset of Rosaceae?
--

Yes. The genus Rosa is part or all [1] of the tribe Roseae which is part
of subfamily Rosoideae which is part of family Rosaceae.Rob

[1] It seems to be a matter of taste among botanists as to whether to
break off a few fragments of Rosa as separate genera or not.

Thanks. It seems to me from what you've explained that it's just* a
matter of learning the "grammar" of the classification system, then
expanding one's vocabulary. The fact that many of the words are Latin
is, to some extent, a red herring.

* I say "just", I'm sure that, at the very least, it's an awfully big
just.
--
Rob

In message , Les Hemmings
writes
Sacha wrote:

Er, yes. ;-) I'll feel better when the aspirin start to work.

Ahaaa! Aspirin, made from Salicylic acid, which is made from Salicin, which
is an extract from the bark of...... (drum roll.... ) Salix alba! (White
Willow)

Not to mention that the spirin part is a reference to Spiraea.
--
Stewart Robert Hinsley

On 25/2/07 14:48, in article , "Les
Hemmings" wrote:

Sacha wrote:

Er, yes. ;-) I'll feel better when the aspirin start to work.

Ahaaa! Aspirin, made from Salicylic acid, which is made from Salicin, which
is an extract from the bark of...... (drum roll.... ) Salix alba! (White
Willow)

Now even *I* knew that one! There's a few places called Sampford in these
yurr parts and I think that has something to do with willow.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| But I might be wrong. If you care enough you could drop a note to the
| editor of Taxon and see if they would entertain a proposal to conserve
| Viburnum fragrans Bunge against Viburnum farreri Loisel. (However as
| there are 18,500 hits in Google for "Viburnum farreri" and 1,110 for
| "Viburnum fragrans" it seems that the balance of usage has swung against
| you.)

Hmm. Not when I try it.

Results 1 - 10 of about 52,300 for Viburnum fragrans.
Results 1 - 10 of about 24,300 for Viburnum farreri.

Frankly, I doubt my ability to persuade anyone to open this can of
worms, irrespective of the merits of any proposal :-(


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
Stewart Robert Hinsley writes:
|
| DNA data has tomato deep within Solanum - in fact as closer to potatoes
| that are many other unquestioned species of Solanum - which is why the
| botanists have moved tomatoes back into Solanum.

Interesting. It doesn't surprise me - I never did understand why it
was separated, because there is so much in common. Anyway, that is
another "Who gives a damn?" reclassification, as it will cause no
confusion - after all, it is only reverting to an older usage,
except that I think that it was Solanum something-else :-)

| However, Solanum capsicum isn't chilli; it's Jerusalem Cherry. Chillis
| are Capsicum species, and belong to the same group of Solanaceae as
| Solanum, but within any concept of Solanum with any degree of
| acceptance.

Er, Star Capsicum, surely? Jerusalem Cherry is S. pseudocapsicum in
all my books. Or have the species been merged?


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article . com,
"Rob Hamadi" writes:
|
| Thanks. It seems to me from what you've explained that it's just* a
| matter of learning the "grammar" of the classification system, then
| expanding one's vocabulary. The fact that many of the words are Latin
| is, to some extent, a red herring.

Precisely. They are semi-systematic gibberish, as distinct from the
English names, which are often total gibberish - if you read ANYTHING
into an English name, you run the risk of confusing yourself at best
and killing yourself and your family at worst.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

wrote in message
ps.com...
On 25 Feb, 00:23, Sacha wrote:
On 24/2/07 21:55, in article ,
"BoyPete"

wrote:
I've lurked for ages, just posting occasionally. I do hope my pond
orientated posts don't annoy. My garden is about 20ft square, nearly
half is
pond now. Most people here seem to be 'real' gardeners, something I'd
love
to be if I had the room! I dream of retiring to a large old house with
half
an acre..........yeah.....dream on. In the past, I've grown carrots,
Swede,
peas, runner beans, lettuce etc, but until recently, especially sweet
corn......great picked and straight on the BBQ Now, I only have pots
Something which bugs me, is the use of the Latin names for plants.
I
realise that if you are really into gardening, these things are
important,
but to the likes of me........an interested wannabe, they are
meaningless.
It would be nice if folk could call plants by their 'common' name
perhaps
with the Latin in brackets? What do you think? Thanks for a great
friendly
group.

The problem is Common names common to where? In UK they change from
county
to county or even parish to parish so it's not helpful.
If the Latin names are used, they're recognised all over the world.
That's
why they're used - for plantspeople and gardeners, it's the universal
language. I think it might be helpful to you to look at the Latin names
and
then check out the common names which will be entirely different in every
corner of the planet.
To take one wild plant alone, I've seen it named here as 'goose grass',
'sticky willie' and 'cleavers', depending on the region the poster comes
from. Latin names are unequivocal if you're talking to someone in
Berkshire or Bareclona.

--
Sachahttp://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devonhttp://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)

Now then Sacha, I don't live in Berkshire or Barcelona, so I use the
common name as I am ignorant.

I do live in Berkshire, but anything other than the common name confuses me!

Alan



Judith at home and still not at work

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"Alan Holmes" wrote


Are there latin names for such things as sprouts, peas, cabbage, carrots,
strawberries, runner beans and sweet corn?

But if there are please do not confuse me!
Alan

I LOVE confusing people :~)

Rotter!

I shall try to remember not to talk to you!(:-)

Alan


http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/latin.html
Jenny

"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 25/2/07 10:03, in article lid, "Stewart
Robert
Hinsley" wrote:

In message , BoyPete
writes
snip
Yes, I understand that now. Still, it's very off-putting to the likes of
me
to see all that Latin in a post, and I tend to skip them.....possibly
missing some useful info.

Botanical names are no harder, in principle, to cope with than
vernacular names. All you have to do is not let them intimidate you.

I'm guessing that for some people it's to do with pronunciation, too. But
if you break it down into chewable syllables, it's much easier. And as to
the *correct* way to pronounce things I wouldn't even begin to consider
that
as off putting because there seem to be as many variations in that field
as
there are plants to learn about. It's the old CLEMatis opposed to
CleMAYtis
thing and doesn't matter a jot, IMO, except as a bit of fun to argue
about.
;-)

A bit like the presant pronunsiation of Beaconsfield, which is a place where
they had a beacon, but the 'posh' people call it beckons-field as in someone
trying to get your attention, but I always refer to it as a place where
there was a beacon!

Alan



--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)