"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 2/7/07 08:50, in article ,
"David
(Normandy)" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
On 1/7/07 21:29, in article ,
"David
(Normandy)" wrote:

snip

The strangest law we've come across here so far is regarding selling
your
property - if you sell it within 2 years you have to share any profit
you
make with the previous owners of the house!
snip

snip

This would explain why an English friend of ours, living in France, told
us
that it could take up to at least two years to sell a house! I wonder
now
if she knew this at that time.

--

The French property market doesn't have the high inflation of the UK
housing
market, which is perhaps a good thing. There are several reasons, but
basically the taxes and estate agent fees are very high. They are on a
sliding time scale which makes it punitive to sell within two years after
the initial purchase (especially with having to share any 'profit' with
the
previous owners). But the seller is still heavily taxed if selling within
five years of purchase.
We looked at selling on our old stone barn with a bit of land for someone
to
renovate, but the amount of tax and fees we would have to pay made
selling a
none starter, so it looks like it will just continue to crumble into
dereliction, like most old stone barns in France.
People just don't generally climb a housing ladder here, they are too
heavily punished financially with each move, and it is not uncommon for
properties to simply pass down the generations.


At least it must make it easier for young people to buy a house of their
own, or at least to have the hope of doing so. Prices here are
ridiculously
high. A two bedroomed stone cottage in this village, with a downstairs
bathroom, all of it in a terrible state of repair, went for £360,000 a
while
ago. We reckon it will take at least £80k to make it into a comfortable
and
damp free home. IIRC, the asking price had been under £300k.

This one's cheaper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6258440.stm

In reply to Sacha ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

On 2/7/07 10:39, in article , "Uncle
Marvo" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
snip
At least it must make it easier for young people to buy a house of
their own, or at least to have the hope of doing so. Prices here
are ridiculously
high. A two bedroomed stone cottage in this village, with a
downstairs bathroom, all of it in a terrible state of repair, went
for £360,000 a while
ago. We reckon it will take at least £80k to make it into a
comfortable and
damp free home. IIRC, the asking price had been under £300k.

This one's cheaper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6258440.stm


I saw that in the paper. It says it doesn't come with running water
but I bet it does..... ;-(

I bet it does too. The running water bit is the only drawback otherwise I'd
bid for it. The view is smashing.

On 2/7/07 10:39, in article , "Uncle
Marvo" wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
. uk...
snip
At least it must make it easier for young people to buy a house of their
own, or at least to have the hope of doing so. Prices here are
ridiculously
high. A two bedroomed stone cottage in this village, with a downstairs
bathroom, all of it in a terrible state of repair, went for £360,000 a
while
ago. We reckon it will take at least £80k to make it into a comfortable
and
damp free home. IIRC, the asking price had been under £300k.

This one's cheaper.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/h...cs/6258440.stm


I saw that in the paper. It says it doesn't come with running water but I
bet it does..... ;-(

--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)

Hi David,

On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 09:50:05 +0200
"David \(Normandy\)" wrote:

The French property market doesn't have the high inflation of the UK housing
market, which is perhaps a good thing. There are several reasons, but
basically the taxes and estate agent fees are very high. They are on a
sliding time scale which makes it punitive to sell within two years after
the initial purchase (especially with having to share any 'profit' with the
previous owners). But the seller is still heavily taxed if selling within
five years of purchase.

Hm. Our property has increased more than eight-fold in value in 15 years.
That's a pretty healthy inflation, for the deep country. Of course there has
been renovation, and the new autoroutes help -- Normandy has been cut off from
the rest of France for big roads, since the Duke of Alencon supported the
Monarchy during the revolution.

Inflation in Paris and region is currently around 8%, but around 70% over the last 5 years.
I believe this is comparable to the London market.

We looked at selling on our old stone barn with a bit of land for someone to
renovate, but the amount of tax and fees we would have to pay made selling a
none starter, so it looks like it will just continue to crumble into
dereliction, like most old stone barns in France.

The buyer pays notaire's fees and taxes, so long as you wait the requisite amount
of time -- to show you're not a "speculator" or some other "anglo-saxon liberal
capitalist" (local terms of derision) -- you should be OK.

With respect, I think "most old stone barns in France" is a bit strong. I think if
you look more closely you'll see that many of these buildings are tied up in
inheritance litigation, which prevents anything at all being done with them.
(The inheritance laws are a certifiable disaster). At least that's the case around
here. Every other little barn or fermette is sold in a fortnight after coming to
market, or more often doesn't hit the market at all but sells by word of mouth.

Anyway, all this perhaps OT for urg. On the original topic, you can certainly give
the seedlings away to your neighbors. I'd take 10 or 15 off of you, if you like!

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

"Emery Davis" wrote in message
...
Hi David,

On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 09:50:05 +0200
"David \(Normandy\)" wrote:

The French property market doesn't have the high inflation of the UK
housing
market, which is perhaps a good thing. There are several reasons, but
basically the taxes and estate agent fees are very high. They are on a
sliding time scale which makes it punitive to sell within two years after
the initial purchase (especially with having to share any 'profit' with
the
previous owners). But the seller is still heavily taxed if selling within
five years of purchase.

Hm. Our property has increased more than eight-fold in value in 15 years.
That's a pretty healthy inflation, for the deep country. Of course there
has
been renovation, and the new autoroutes help -- Normandy has been cut off
from
the rest of France for big roads, since the Duke of Alencon supported the
Monarchy during the revolution.

Inflation in Paris and region is currently around 8%, but around 70% over
the last 5 years.
I believe this is comparable to the London market.

We looked at selling on our old stone barn with a bit of land for someone
to
renovate, but the amount of tax and fees we would have to pay made
selling a
none starter, so it looks like it will just continue to crumble into
dereliction, like most old stone barns in France.

The buyer pays notaire's fees and taxes, so long as you wait the requisite
amount
of time -- to show you're not a "speculator" or some other "anglo-saxon
liberal
capitalist" (local terms of derision) -- you should be OK.

With respect, I think "most old stone barns in France" is a bit strong. I
think if
you look more closely you'll see that many of these buildings are tied up
in
inheritance litigation, which prevents anything at all being done with
them.
(The inheritance laws are a certifiable disaster). At least that's the
case around
here. Every other little barn or fermette is sold in a fortnight after
coming to
market, or more often doesn't hit the market at all but sells by word of
mouth.

Anyway, all this perhaps OT for urg. On the original topic, you can
certainly give
the seedlings away to your neighbors. I'd take 10 or 15 off of you, if
you like!

-E
--
Emery Davis

Emery, you are welcome to some seedlings - we are around 15 minutes drive
from Vire. Directions available on request :-)
When we enquired about selling the old barn we'd been here less than two
years, this meant we would take less than 50% of the sale price after taxes,
fees etc. It just wasn't worth selling. I wasn't implying that this is the
reason that most old barns are heading into dereliction. There are quite a
few old barns and even old stone houses within a few miles of us that are
just falling into ruin, roofs collapsing etc. As you say I think a major
cause of this is the inheritance laws and disagreements among the heirs. I
gather it just takes one 'child' to say 'Non' and that is the end of things.
It is also not cheap to renovate some of these properties - it would often
be cheaper to build a new house rather than spend a fortune renovating a
partial derelict. New houses generally lack the "character" of these older
properties though :-) We fell in love with our old Virginia creeper clad
house as soon as we saw it. A lot of work to renovate it though, while still
habitable, the previous owners had allowed the entire property and grounds
to fall into disrepair for many years.

David.

On Mon, 2 Jul 2007 19:11:53 +0200
"David \(Normandy\)" wrote:

Emery, you are welcome to some seedlings - we are around 15 minutes drive
from Vire. Directions available on request :-)

David, could you drop me an email off-group? I should be able to get
there after the 20th or so.

cheers,

-E
--
Emery Davis
You can reply to ecom
by removing the well known companies
Questions about wine? Visit http://winefaq.hostexcellence.com

David, could you drop me an email off-group? I should be able to get
there after the 20th or so.

cheers,

-E
--
Emery Davis


I've sent you an email with a small JPG map attached. Let me know if you
receive it ok.

David.

In article et, Sally
Thompson writes
Oh David, a man after my own heart! I currently have about 70 Verbena
Bonariensis, about 30 Coreopsis, over 100 yellow alyssum (well, we do like
them g),

Same here, I planted/ sowed Echium Blue Steeple and because they were
expensive and out of the ordinary didn't expect them all to germinate.
Now I have loads and god knows who will want a biennial that will be 6
foot tall next year, albeit a rarish plant

(I'm going to send Sacha an early Christmas present but don't warn her
)

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In reply to Janet Tweedy ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

In article et,
Sally Thompson writes
Oh David, a man after my own heart! I currently have about 70
Verbena Bonariensis, about 30 Coreopsis, over 100 yellow alyssum
(well, we do like them g),

Same here, I planted/ sowed Echium Blue Steeple and because they were
expensive and out of the ordinary didn't expect them all to germinate.
Now I have loads and god knows who will want a biennial that will be 6
foot tall next year, albeit a rarish plant

(I'm going to send Sacha an early Christmas present but don't warn
her )

Don't suppose anyone wants about 200 lupins?

No idea what colour they are, but they all germinated, all grew on, and are
now in peat pots with the roots growing through.

I think I'll put them in the woods and see what happens.

In article , "David
(Normandy)" writes

5. Giving plants away may be considered to be starting a business or trying
to take trade away from registered garden centre businesses. There are very
strict protectionist laws regarding doing anything like that here.

Good god how sad and what a waste of lovely plant swap meetings. How
utterly short-sighted of the French! What a waste of good plants as
well! How do you stand if you want to give plants to a friend then? How
do Plant societies work?


Weird laws aside, it is not a bad place to live :-)


Sounds awful! (Though it does have on its side the fact that you would
only get MFI sales adverts twice a year!)
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On 3/7/07 13:16, in article , "Janet Tweedy"
wrote:

In article et, Sally
Thompson writes
Oh David, a man after my own heart! I currently have about 70 Verbena
Bonariensis, about 30 Coreopsis, over 100 yellow alyssum (well, we do like
them g),

Same here, I planted/ sowed Echium Blue Steeple and because they were
expensive and out of the ordinary didn't expect them all to germinate.
Now I have loads and god knows who will want a biennial that will be 6
foot tall next year, albeit a rarish plant

(I'm going to send Sacha an early Christmas present but don't warn her
)

Okay, I won't! ;-) These will be hugely appreciated when she receives them
though. ;-)
I'll have to see if Ray's got any E.fastuosum going spare this year or next
- just to give you a bit of contrast!
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
(remove weeds from address)

Good god how sad and what a waste of lovely plant swap meetings. How
utterly short-sighted of the French! What a waste of good plants as well!
How do you stand if you want to give plants to a friend then? How do Plant
societies work?
Janet Tweedy

There is no problem giving plants to friends and neighbours. It seems to be
the custom here to turn up with something and leave with something :-). I
think problems are likely to arise if you start to make a more structured or
organised thing of it. I'm only speculating though as I say, so may be
wrong.

For example it is fine to help a friend with a bit of building work provided
no money exchanges hands. But you cannot organise this and swap work with
strangers. So for example the LETS scheme in the UK where people swap time
e.g. an hour of baby sitting for an hour of gardening etc. Such schemes here
are highly illegal.

David.

"Uncle Marvo" wrote in message
...


Don't suppose anyone wants about 200 lupins?

No idea what colour they are, but they all germinated, all grew on, and
are now in peat pots with the roots growing through.

I think I'll put them in the woods and see what happens.

I like lupins - they're from my childhood - but when I tried to grow them
here they suffered enormous grey aphids.

I don't warm to enormous grey aphids :-(

Mary

In reply to Mary Fisher ) who wrote this in
, I, Marvo, say :

"Uncle Marvo" wrote in message
...


Don't suppose anyone wants about 200 lupins?

No idea what colour they are, but they all germinated, all grew on,
and are now in peat pots with the roots growing through.

I think I'll put them in the woods and see what happens.

I like lupins - they're from my childhood - but when I tried to grow
them here they suffered enormous grey aphids.

I don't warm to enormous grey aphids :-(

I don't warm to slugs either, and they love young lupins. But I put the pots
I wanted into the ground, and put propagator tray lids on them, to stop them
getting over-watered, then put a liberal dash of slug pellet round the
trays. Must have got a few hundred of the blighters.

In article , Sacha
writes

Okay, I won't! ;-) These will be hugely appreciated when she receives them
though. ;-)
I'll have to see if Ray's got any E.fastuosum going spare this year or next
- just to give you a bit of contrast!


Well actually I only grew the Blue Spires as some people had seen them
on a coach trip to Devon and I said I would have a go at growing them. I
actually forgot they were the tall ones so put a load into a seed tray
and was happily planning to plant them as fillers for spaces
I'll put some in the post to you. But PLEASE no tropical plants back,
though I appreciate the thought and offer

Also just bought a Deutzia setchuensis so cuttings have been
taken............

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk