I have just cut the lawn and cleared a bit of overhanging shrubbery at my
daughter's place (she rents it out ATM and we were letting a tradesman in).
Took me about 30 minutes.

The tenants, 30 and below, show absolutely no interest in the garden and so
do not maintain it.

This does not bother my daughter because she has no interest in the garden
either.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of neglecting a garden it did make us
ponder about "the younger generation".
[Just a minute, when did we stop being "the younger generation"?]

Her tenants can afford to buy, but don't want to because they don't want the
responsibility.
They still seem to live as students with the same short term view of
accomodation as somewhere to dump stuff between work and socialising.
This is not uncommon, from talking to other "Baby Boomers" about their kids.
Not many seem to settle into the life we were lead to expect - married,
kids, good job for life.
Not that this "dream" is practical now; jobs and carreers are not expected
to be long term and life expectancy is much longer so everything seems to
have an air of impermanence. Marriage and kids has gone down the priority
list for many. Expecting to have to work until you are 70 or more must be
quite daunting.

Please note that I do not criticise people for not following the route we
were encouraged to take. The world is a very different place and each
generation makes their own decisions.

However gardening seems to be tied in to a focus on the home and a
willingness to spend time at home working on it. If life is so busy that
there is no spare time and energy to maintain your home and garden then
something has got to give.

So to finally get to the point.

How many urgles (contributors and lurkers) are aged 30 and below?
Is gardening as popular as it always was (the amount of stuff in the sheds
does suggest a strong demand) or are most of the people gardening Baby
Boomers and the next decade or so, who bought houses before the last couple
of the housing booms?

Has the extended period in education (did we ever get to 50% going to
University instead of 5-10%) and the massive availability of electronic
consumer goods and availability of various entertainments given the 30-
generation a whole new set of priorities which render serious gardening a
waste of valuable time?

Just wondering (and not too seriously) :-)

Cheers

Daver

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 09:01:10 +0100, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:

pruned

How many urgles (contributors and lurkers) are aged 30 and below?
Is gardening as popular as it always was (the amount of stuff in the sheds
does suggest a strong demand) or are most of the people gardening Baby
Boomers and the next decade or so, who bought houses before the last couple
of the housing booms?

Has the extended period in education (did we ever get to 50% going to
University instead of 5-10%) and the massive availability of electronic
consumer goods and availability of various entertainments given the 30-
generation a whole new set of priorities which render serious gardening a
waste of valuable time?

Just wondering (and not too seriously) :-)

Cheers

Daver

I've always been somewhat forgetful when it comes to birthdays - even
forgetting my own occasionally. I think, over the years, I've
forgotten my birthday about 30 times so now consider myself to be
around 27.

I had my first "garden plot" before I started school - my little bit
with a fence with a gate around it - ok, made with bamboo canes and
string but it was mine. By the time I was 7, I'd acquired a larger
chunk of the garden and by 12 had a decent veg patch going. My mother
said she caught the gardening bug from me, rather than the other way
round. Dad was only interested in football and regularly took me along
to matches; I could never understand what the excitement was all
about.

So clearly I didn't acquite my taste for gardening from my parents,
nor did I follow the lead in becoming a sport fanatic (rugby aside).
Nor did I become a gardener just because houses generally have gardens
attached - I was too young to appreciate that when I started.

I have neighbours whose idea of "gardening" is to get a handyman in
now and again to do whatever. But their kids (all in the 10-12 age
group) are regularly out weeding, cutting the lawn and having a go at
pruning shrubs and, it seems, because they like doing it rather than
because they're told to do it. There's even the occasional argument
over whose turn it is to cut the grass!

So I don't think there's any great social trend here. There are people
of all ages who just like doing something so they do it. And they'll
continue to find time to do it because they like doing it.

I'm 37. I bought the house I currently live in about a week before I was
30. Before that I lived in rented flats and houses, which either didn't
have a garden, or I had no time or enthusiasm to deal with.

When I rented a house in Newcastle I did attempt to plant some flowers,
which the landlady mowed over because I wasn't keeping the lawn mowed enough
for her. And I planted some courgette plants at the back of the garden
which died because I was never home during daylight to look after them (long
work hours, rarely at home during the weekends)

So yes. Probably. :-)

wrote:

I'm 37. I bought the house I currently live in about a week before I was
30. Before that I lived in rented flats and houses, which either didn't
have a garden, or I had no time or enthusiasm to deal with.

I'm 71, and in the American Diaspora, to take this with several grains of
salt:
I've always gardened, as did my parents in a suburban location on a
smallish plot.
A data point, perhaps: this July will mark my 10th trip to the Seed
Saver's Exchange annual campout/convention in northeast Iowa (north-central
U.S.). When I first went, the participants were mostly my age, but
following a change in leadership a few years ago, I notice a lot of folks
in their thirties, and a lot with small children; certainly a hopeful sign.
The programs there now have a lot of kid-friendly events.
(Political warning)
It seems that whenever there's an economic downturn or increased concerns
over mass-produced food, there's an increase in local veg gardening and
particularly heirloom seed preservation. I think of it as an earthy facet
of "Fahrenheit 451:"
"I'm Macomber rutabaga and Brandywine tomato!"


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

"David WE Roberts" wrote (SNIP))
I have just cut the lawn and cleared a bit of overhanging shrubbery at my
daughter's place (she rents it out ATM and we were letting a tradesman
in). Took me about 30 minutes.

The tenants, 30 and below, show absolutely no interest in the garden and
so do not maintain it.

This does not bother my daughter because she has no interest in the garden
either.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of neglecting a garden it did make us
ponder about "the younger generation".
[Just a minute, when did we stop being "the younger generation"?]


I think it may partly be the lack of the old Protestant Work Ethic, most of
the older generation were sent to Sunday School and learnt there that they
had a social responsibility and that every aspect of life was about work and
if you happened to enjoy the work lucky you. A lot of younger people seem to
believe life is for enjoyment and if you are not having fun something is
wrong.
I can't say which is right and which is wrong.
That said, that is a generalisation, we have some youngsters on our
allotment, some in their 30's and at least a couple of plot holders in their
20's. Some seem to have a problem with time, especially those with older
children, but then they are at work so only have weekends and they have a
lot to cram into the weekend.
One young couple probably still in their 20's are good gardeners and I
suspect the husband learnt it from someone (an old codger!) by the way he
gardens, certainly not from a book.
Another rather good looking young Mum is doing a superb job on a very
neglected plot but then her parents run a locally well known plant shop but
she (and her sister) are putting in a lot of time and effort.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

On Jun 8, 9:01*am, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
I have just cut the lawn and cleared a bit of overhanging shrubbery at my
daughter's place (she rents it out ATM and we were letting a tradesman in).
Took me about 30 minutes.

The tenants, 30 and below, show absolutely no interest in the garden and so
do not maintain it.

This does not bother my daughter because she has no interest in the garden
either.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of neglecting a garden it did make us
ponder about "the younger generation".
[Just a minute, when did we stop being "the younger generation"?]

Her tenants can afford to buy, but don't want to because they don't want the
responsibility.
They still seem to live as students with the same short term view of
accomodation as somewhere to dump stuff between work and socialising.
This is not uncommon, from talking to other "Baby Boomers" about their kids.
Not many seem to settle into the life we were lead to expect - married,
kids, good job for life.
Not that this "dream" is practical now; jobs and carreers are not expected
to be long term and life expectancy is much longer so everything seems to
have an air of impermanence. Marriage and kids has gone down the priority
list for many. Expecting to have to work until you are 70 or more must be
quite daunting.

Please note that I do not criticise people for not following the route we
were encouraged to take. The world is a very different place and each
generation makes their own decisions.

However gardening seems to be tied in to a focus on the home and a
willingness to spend time at home working on it. If life is so busy that
there is no spare time and energy to maintain your home and garden then
something has got to give.

So to finally get to the point.

How many urgles (contributors and lurkers) are aged 30 and below?
Is gardening as popular as it always was (the amount of stuff in the sheds
does suggest a strong demand) or are most of the people gardening Baby
Boomers and the next decade or so, who bought houses before the last couple
of the housing booms?

Has the extended period in education (did we ever get to 50% going to
University instead of 5-10%) and the massive availability of electronic
consumer goods and availability of various entertainments given the 30-
generation a whole new set of priorities which render serious gardening a
waste of valuable time?

Just wondering (and not too seriously) :-)

Cheers

Daver

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Nobody much is interested in manual work. Thet seem to think they can
make a living sat in front of a screen. We have a generation thinks
not to go to "uni" is failure. When they get there they learn useless
crap. Political studies. Psychology. Television studies.

Most of them are so fat/unfit they will never make it to seventy.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jun 8, 9:01 am, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
snip
*Nobody much is interested in manual work. Thet seem to think they can
*make a living sat in front of a screen. We have a generation thinks
*not to go to "uni" is failure. When they get there they learn useless
*crap. Political studies. Psychology. Television studies.

*Most of them are so fat/unfit they will never make it to seventy.

A mixed response here.

Yes, most people make a living sitting in front of a screen.
That's the way of the modern world.
It's the way I made my living and I'm sitting in front of a screen now.

I can't agree with your definition of crap, given that my lad is doing his
PhD in politics at the moment and it seems to cover a lot of useful and
relevant stuff. Psychology is also a useful profession.
I could be with you on the television studies, though.

Again, very few of the people who I saw at University when visiting my kids
were fat and their friends now are relatively lean.
My lad is underweight, if anything, and has completed an Olympic Triathlon
so he doesn't class as unfit.

I think you may find that the overweight people may come predominantly from
the 50% who didn't go to University, but that may just be my biased view.

I think you would be hard pressed to make a living at manual work these
days - there aren't that many jobs anymore now we don't have a manufacturing
industry and agriculture is so highly automated..

All of which has little to do with gardening. :-)

Cheers

Dave R

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On Jun 8, 6:19*pm, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
I think you would be hard pressed to make a living at manual work these
days -

Oh I don't know. Sounds like there is plenty of experience for
jobbing gardeners...

On Wed, 8 Jun 2011 15:19:08 -0700 (PDT), bobharvey
wrote:

On Jun 8, 6:19*pm, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
I think you would be hard pressed to make a living at manual work these
days -

Oh I don't know. Sounds like there is plenty of experience for
jobbing gardeners...

....and plumbers, electricians, roofers, bricklayers, joiners, motor
mechanics, bus drivers, road workers...need I go on? The money, spread
over a career, wouldn't often represent luxury, but it's decent. I
think the difficulty is for unskilled workers: we do seem to need far
fewer labourers these days. And what becomes of those with shiny new
degrees in Pure and Applied Knitting Studies and Football History, I
don't know..."Do you have a Nectar card?" perhaps. A very interesting
taxi driver told me how the Union had helped him into university when
he'd been on the buses...and a house-clearer said he'd got himself
through university, but was still clearing houses.

--
Mike.

"harry" wrote in message
...
On Jun 8, 9:01 am, "David WE Roberts"
wrote:
I have just cut the lawn and cleared a bit of overhanging shrubbery at my
daughter's place (she rents it out ATM and we were letting a tradesman
in).
Took me about 30 minutes.

The tenants, 30 and below, show absolutely no interest in the garden and
so
do not maintain it.

This does not bother my daughter because she has no interest in the garden
either.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of neglecting a garden it did make us
ponder about "the younger generation".
[Just a minute, when did we stop being "the younger generation"?]

Her tenants can afford to buy, but don't want to because they don't want
the
responsibility.
They still seem to live as students with the same short term view of
accomodation as somewhere to dump stuff between work and socialising.
This is not uncommon, from talking to other "Baby Boomers" about their
kids.
Not many seem to settle into the life we were lead to expect - married,
kids, good job for life.
Not that this "dream" is practical now; jobs and carreers are not expected
to be long term and life expectancy is much longer so everything seems to
have an air of impermanence. Marriage and kids has gone down the priority
list for many. Expecting to have to work until you are 70 or more must be
quite daunting.

Please note that I do not criticise people for not following the route we
were encouraged to take. The world is a very different place and each
generation makes their own decisions.

However gardening seems to be tied in to a focus on the home and a
willingness to spend time at home working on it. If life is so busy that
there is no spare time and energy to maintain your home and garden then
something has got to give.

So to finally get to the point.

How many urgles (contributors and lurkers) are aged 30 and below?
Is gardening as popular as it always was (the amount of stuff in the sheds
does suggest a strong demand) or are most of the people gardening Baby
Boomers and the next decade or so, who bought houses before the last
couple
of the housing booms?

Has the extended period in education (did we ever get to 50% going to
University instead of 5-10%) and the massive availability of electronic
consumer goods and availability of various entertainments given the 30-
generation a whole new set of priorities which render serious gardening a
waste of valuable time?

Just wondering (and not too seriously) :-)

Cheers

Daver

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Nobody much is interested in manual work. Thet seem to think they can
make a living sat in front of a screen. We have a generation thinks
not to go to "uni" is failure. When they get there they learn useless
crap. Political studies. Psychology. Television studies.

How about one lad who was reading "Air Guitar" for his degree ????

Bill

On Fri, 10 Jun 2011 11:36:37 +0100, Bill Grey wrote:

Nobody much is interested in manual work.

Why should they when they can sit on the behinds and get benefits.
The poverty trap is still very much present. I'm freelance and have a
low income, if I have a good year I can earn several thousand pounds
more gross but the corresponding reduction in WTC and CTC very nearly
wipe any gain out. Say I work say an 3 extra weeks, I only end up
with the equivalent of a weeks extra money, not a great incentive to
work hard is it...

We have a generation thinks not to go to "uni" is failure.

And now any further education establishment can call itself a
"university", places that used to be "technical college" or a
"polytechnic".

When they get there they learn useless crap. Political studies.
Psychology. Television studies.

Political Studie might have use provided anyone who takes that course
is not allowed anywhere near anything political (from Parish Council
up) untill they have done at least 10 year in industry. Carere
politicians are a menance, they just don't have a broad enough
knowledge base of how the world really works.

Psychology is required for those looking after a broad range of
people with many forms of brain disorder or mental problems.

Television Studies I better keep quiet about as Television is how I
earn my little crust. Though the numbers going through "media"
courses that come out the other end hardly knowing one end of camera
from the other is worrying.

--
Cheers
Dave.

There don't seem to be many people who admit to being under 30
responding. As someone who is more than twice the age and has gardened
for many years, I still learn from here and ask questions.

My mother was the gardener in our house, father did the digging and cut
the lawns etc, but hated it! I learnt a bit from her, but was not really
interested until we moved into a new house as newly weds and was faced
with a small garden to sort out. Once I had my first crops of veggies, I
never looked back.

The wife is in charge of the flowery bits, but I deal with the rest,
although age means weeding and planting take longer and I now wish I has
raised beds!

Many younger people have neer gardened becuase of the readily available
supply of cheapish veggies and seemingly endless cash to waste on them.

Daughter (now approaching 40) enjoys gardening and growing veggies, her
husband does not. Son will maintain the lawn & flowerbeds they have but
nothing else.

If there is such a lack of younger gardeners, why is there still such a
demand for allotments. Maybe they are too busy on their plots to urgle!


--
Roger T

700 ft up in Mid-Wales

In article ,
Roger Tonkin writes
If there is such a lack of younger gardeners, why is there still such a
demand for allotments. Maybe they are too busy on their plots to urgle!


I assume it's forty plus people who have more leisure time or who
believe in getting their food without all the chemicals, around here
people are very fussy what they serve to their children, especially the
toddlers,
Although we don't often admit it, many people have retired early or are
fitter than they would have been years ago at retirement age.

Years ago my dad had two allotments where we lived in New Eltham and we
used to have areas to grow stuff in. I seem to remember early summer
evenings having to go to bed whilst it wasn't quite dark and listening
to the repetitive backward and forward sound of manual lawnmowers
cutting the lawns in the back gardens - it was the essence of summer
days!
In the late fifties gardens seemed to have roses yet more roses,
Michaelmas daisies and dahlias. Can't remember many other flowers, just
lots of leaves for very few flowers and the desolate stems of hard
pruned rose bushes in the winter

When I got married i can remember carting a huge long trough up to the
balcony that the married quarters had and growing lettuce in it and I
was only 18 at the time.

My first love has always been sowing and striking cuttings etc. it's
that first initial growth of something new that I appreciate, once the
plants are reasonable size I tend to give them away or swap them for
more cuttings

--
Janet Tweedy

There aren't many under-30s replying on gardenbanter!

"David WE Roberts" wrote in message
...
I have just cut the lawn and cleared a bit of overhanging shrubbery at my
daughter's place (she rents it out ATM and we were letting a tradesman in).
Took me about 30 minutes.

The tenants, 30 and below, show absolutely no interest in the garden and
so do not maintain it.

This does not bother my daughter because she has no interest in the garden
either.

Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of neglecting a garden it did make us
ponder about "the younger generation".
[Just a minute, when did we stop being "the younger generation"?]

Her tenants can afford to buy, but don't want to because they don't want
the responsibility.
They still seem to live as students with the same short term view of
accomodation as somewhere to dump stuff between work and socialising.
This is not uncommon, from talking to other "Baby Boomers" about their
kids.
Not many seem to settle into the life we were lead to expect - married,
kids, good job for life.
Not that this "dream" is practical now; jobs and carreers are not expected
to be long term and life expectancy is much longer so everything seems to
have an air of impermanence. Marriage and kids has gone down the priority
list for many. Expecting to have to work until you are 70 or more must be
quite daunting.

Please note that I do not criticise people for not following the route we
were encouraged to take. The world is a very different place and each
generation makes their own decisions.

However gardening seems to be tied in to a focus on the home and a
willingness to spend time at home working on it. If life is so busy that
there is no spare time and energy to maintain your home and garden then
something has got to give.

So to finally get to the point.

How many urgles (contributors and lurkers) are aged 30 and below?
Is gardening as popular as it always was (the amount of stuff in the sheds
does suggest a strong demand) or are most of the people gardening Baby
Boomers and the next decade or so, who bought houses before the last
couple of the housing booms?

Has the extended period in education (did we ever get to 50% going to
University instead of 5-10%) and the massive availability of electronic
consumer goods and availability of various entertainments given the 30-
generation a whole new set of priorities which render serious gardening a
waste of valuable time?

Just wondering (and not too seriously) :-)

Cheers

Daver

--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"" Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of neglecting a garden ""

Excuse me, but who are you to say if it is "right" or "wrong" to neglect a
garden?

Ponder a while..... 'NEGLECT"..... So 'leaving it to nature' is neglect is
it?

Explain

Mike


--

....................................
Remember, a statue has never been erected to a critic.

....................................