I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8 years,
it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.

Symptoms
It wont start at all on choke
on slow it fires but peters out before getting going
after about 15 pulls it finally goes and runs fine until I stop to empty the
grass box, then it will be reluctant to restart (although not as bad as when
cold)
On opening the throttle it revs up and down and is reluctant to settle and
it does similar if it suddenly has longer grass.

It seems to be worse if the fuel tank is not more than half full.

What I know its not
Spark plug, changed that it made no difference,
Air filter, took that off and it made no difference
Safety brake not clearing, checked that and it comes on and off as it
should.

Seems like a fuel problem but I have no manual, so is there a fuel filter
somewhere that could be partially blocked?, or could a partial blockage in
the carb produce these symptoms?

Any other low tech suggestions welcome

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On Mon, 04 Jul 2011 14:38:41 +0100, Charlie Pridham wrote:

I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8
years, it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.

Symptoms
It wont start at all on choke
on slow it fires but peters out before getting going after about 15
pulls it finally goes and runs fine until I stop to empty the grass box,
then it will be reluctant to restart (although not as bad as when cold)
On opening the throttle it revs up and down and is reluctant to settle
and it does similar if it suddenly has longer grass.



Small petrol engines can be a bugger to diagnose.

The reving up and down thing may be a clue - there is often a flappy
thing and a spring in the airflow from the blower/magneto on top. This
is like a speed regulator, and the flappy thing and spring control a
butterfly in the air path through the carburettor, like a second
trottle. if that breaks/gets clogged with grass you could have those
sort of problems.

Otherwise it is basic petrol engine stuff.

* Remove and clean the air filter. Re-oil if it tells you to, otherwise
don't

* replace the spark plug, and gap it correctly, or to 20 thou if unknown.

* Have you got compression? if not the valves may need lapping in, or you
may have a piston ring problem.

* was the spark plug black and caked in carbon? if so you may need a
decoke and to weaken the mixture

* was the spark plug white, and caked in what looks like limescale? if
so I bet the plug gap has burned itself to too big a gap, and the mixture
is too weak.

* Have you got a spark at all? turn it over with the plug lead off and
watch it spark to the frame. Blue = good spark. yellow and intermittent
= feeble spark. You might need to change the points or the capacitor
under the magneto (warning: on some engines removing the magneto without
a "keeper" looses so much flux it will not work again)

Black exhaust smoke when it does start might suggest an over-rich mixture
or too much choke. No smoke at all might suggest a weak or normal
mixuture and a buggered plug.

--
Bob Harvey OETKB

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...
I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8
years, it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.


Some of these engines have a rubber like diaphragm in the carburettor that
degrades with age. That can cause the problems you are getting.

Mike

"Charlie Pridham" wrote ...

I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8
years, it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.

Symptoms
It wont start at all on choke
on slow it fires but peters out before getting going
after about 15 pulls it finally goes and runs fine until I stop to empty
the grass box, then it will be reluctant to restart (although not as bad
as when cold)
On opening the throttle it revs up and down and is reluctant to settle and
it does similar if it suddenly has longer grass.

It seems to be worse if the fuel tank is not more than half full.

What I know its not
Spark plug, changed that it made no difference,
Air filter, took that off and it made no difference
Safety brake not clearing, checked that and it comes on and off as it
should.

Seems like a fuel problem but I have no manual, so is there a fuel filter
somewhere that could be partially blocked?, or could a partial blockage in
the carb produce these symptoms?

Any other low tech suggestions welcome


Revving up and down is called "hunting" and is usually down to dirt in the
carburettor which you can usually take apart to clean if you are careful,
some (Honda) have a drain plug on the bottom of the carb too. (well
ventilated area, no naked flames etc.). If there is dirt in the carb it is
also probably in the tank so an in-line petrol filter may be the answer
(from any car spares place) unless you want to drain out the tank and remove
the dirt from the petrol (it will sink to the bottom). (an empty tank that
contained petrol is a bomb so be careful)
Alternatively has it got one of those plastic/rubber petrol primer bulbs, it
may have a small hole in it so it's sucking in air. Had the one on my old
Husqvarna strimmer break up a few weeks ago and had to get a non-original
replacement on e-bay as the dealer couldn't help me.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

"Bob Hobden" wrote in
:

"Charlie Pridham" wrote ...

I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8
years, it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.

Symptoms
It wont start at all on choke
on slow it fires but peters out before getting going
after about 15 pulls it finally goes and runs fine until I stop to
empty the grass box, then it will be reluctant to restart (although
not as bad as when cold)
On opening the throttle it revs up and down and is reluctant to
settle and it does similar if it suddenly has longer grass.

It seems to be worse if the fuel tank is not more than half full.

What I know its not
Spark plug, changed that it made no difference,
Air filter, took that off and it made no difference
Safety brake not clearing, checked that and it comes on and off as it
should.

Seems like a fuel problem but I have no manual, so is there a fuel
filter somewhere that could be partially blocked?, or could a partial
blockage in the carb produce these symptoms?

Any other low tech suggestions welcome


Revving up and down is called "hunting" and is usually down to dirt in
the carburettor which you can usually take apart to clean if you are
careful, some (Honda) have a drain plug on the bottom of the carb too.
(well ventilated area, no naked flames etc.). If there is dirt in the
carb it is also probably in the tank so an in-line petrol filter may
be the answer (from any car spares place) unless you want to drain out
the tank and remove the dirt from the petrol (it will sink to the
bottom). (an empty tank that contained petrol is a bomb so be careful)
Alternatively has it got one of those plastic/rubber petrol primer
bulbs, it may have a small hole in it so it's sucking in air. Had the
one on my old Husqvarna strimmer break up a few weeks ago and had to
get a non-original replacement on e-bay as the dealer couldn't help
me.


These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)

Baz

"Baz" wrote in message
...
"Bob Hobden" wrote in
:

"Charlie Pridham" wrote ...

I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8
years, it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.

Symptoms
It wont start at all on choke
on slow it fires but peters out before getting going
after about 15 pulls it finally goes and runs fine until I stop to
empty the grass box, then it will be reluctant to restart (although
not as bad as when cold)
On opening the throttle it revs up and down and is reluctant to
settle and it does similar if it suddenly has longer grass.

It seems to be worse if the fuel tank is not more than half full.

What I know its not
Spark plug, changed that it made no difference,
Air filter, took that off and it made no difference
Safety brake not clearing, checked that and it comes on and off as it
should.

Seems like a fuel problem but I have no manual, so is there a fuel
filter somewhere that could be partially blocked?, or could a partial
blockage in the carb produce these symptoms?

Any other low tech suggestions welcome


Revving up and down is called "hunting" and is usually down to dirt in
the carburettor which you can usually take apart to clean if you are
careful, some (Honda) have a drain plug on the bottom of the carb too.
(well ventilated area, no naked flames etc.). If there is dirt in the
carb it is also probably in the tank so an in-line petrol filter may
be the answer (from any car spares place) unless you want to drain out
the tank and remove the dirt from the petrol (it will sink to the
bottom). (an empty tank that contained petrol is a bomb so be careful)
Alternatively has it got one of those plastic/rubber petrol primer
bulbs, it may have a small hole in it so it's sucking in air. Had the
one on my old Husqvarna strimmer break up a few weeks ago and had to
get a non-original replacement on e-bay as the dealer couldn't help
me.


These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)

Baz


tits up?

Funny :-((

I have one of these in the garage

http://triumph.3xmotorcycles.com/new...-T100-Sixty-92

Kindest regards

Mike


--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)

Baz

I think they went tits up because they didn't keep up with what the market
wanted and people were dazzled by what the japs were offering. I remember
seeing one of the first Honda Dreams back in the sixties and thinking it
came from another planet!

"Harry D" wrote in message
...


These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)

Baz

I think they went tits up because they didn't keep up with what the market
wanted and people were dazzled by what the japs were offering. I remember
seeing one of the first Honda Dreams back in the sixties and thinking it
came from another planet!



"There are none so blind ........................"

http://www.triumphmotorcycles.co.uk/

--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

"Baz"
These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)


The British motorcycle industry went to the wall because of bad management**
as did our home based car industry. When foreigners came in and bought
British firms and put in their own management and money the businesses
thrived... Mini and Land Rover are but two examples.
Nissan in Sunderland is a prize example of British workers being world
leaders in productivity but it took a foreign management to show it.
** Management that thought they had a right to be in charge, thought we made
the best products and had a right to dominate world markets, thought they
didn't need to pay to improve tooling/factories, thought that new products
were a waste of time/money, didn't pay for enough research or test their
products properly and change them when needed......
The Unions were as bad, in Japan the Unions push for better products, better
tooling, make suggestions to improve profitability etc., whereas here they
brought their men out on strike if management tried to change anything. So
shortsighted on both sides.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

"Harry D" wrote



These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)


I think they went tits up because they didn't keep up with what the market
wanted and people were dazzled by what the japs were offering. I remember
seeing one of the first Honda Dreams back in the sixties and thinking it
came from another planet!

Back when I was a Rocker I remember seeing for the first time a Yamaha 250cc
twin and it was racing with a Triumph Bonneville 650cc on the Great Chertsey
Road. No one could believe how fast that little bike was, and the noise,
that scream. That day changed things for all of us, the guys on their Ariel
"smoky joes" just drove off shaking their heads.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"Baz"
These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)


The British motorcycle industry went to the wall because of bad
management** as did our home based car industry. When foreigners came in
and bought British firms and put in their own management and money the
businesses thrived... Mini and Land Rover are but two examples.
Nissan in Sunderland is a prize example of British workers being world
leaders in productivity but it took a foreign management to show it.
** Management that thought they had a right to be in charge, thought we
made the best products and had a right to dominate world markets, thought
they didn't need to pay to improve tooling/factories, thought that new
products were a waste of time/money, didn't pay for enough research or
test their products properly and change them when needed......
The Unions were as bad, in Japan the Unions push for better products,
better tooling, make suggestions to improve profitability etc., whereas
here they brought their men out on strike if management tried to change
anything. So shortsighted on both sides.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK

In the very early days of my factories I had a little bit of a problem and
behind my back, some of the staff were talking of getting the unions in. I
very soon put a stop to that. "MY FACTORY .... MY BUSINESS" If the Unions
want to start a business fair enough, don't poke your nose into mine. "If
the Unions come in here, the main switch goes off and that's it. Any problem
you talk to ME". They talked to me. Problem solved and we went on to a very
very successful company until Maggie Thatcher did what Hitler tried to do,
wreck our manufacturing industry and very very nearly succeeded.

Unions do more harm than anything :-((

Should be banned.

Mike


--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"Harry D" wrote



These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap
or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc. products
and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)


I think they went tits up because they didn't keep up with what the
market wanted and people were dazzled by what the japs were offering. I
remember seeing one of the first Honda Dreams back in the sixties and
thinking it came from another planet!

Back when I was a Rocker I remember seeing for the first time a Yamaha
250cc twin and it was racing with a Triumph Bonneville 650cc on the Great
Chertsey Road. No one could believe how fast that little bike was, and the
noise, that scream. That day changed things for all of us, the guys on
their Ariel "smoky joes" just drove off shaking their heads.

--
Regards
Bob Hobden
W.of London. UK


Bob

CC for CC

Triumph Tiger Cub v Lambretta Scooter
200 cc v 150 cc

Mike


--

....................................

Don't take life too seriously, you'll never get out alive.

....................................

"Harry D" wrote:

I think they went tits up because they didn't keep up with what the market
wanted and people were dazzled by what the japs were offering.

Similar things happened to Harley-Davidson in the U.S. Plus, quality
control had got so bad, buying one of their machines was a work in
progress:
"What does it mean when a Harley stops leaking oil?"
"It's out of oil."

U.S. auto manufacturers are finally making pretty good stuff, but it took
years and years of the Japanese eating their lunch to get their attention.

And my ancient Troy-Bilt Rotovator (They never crossed the pond, did they?)
is going strong with the occasional oil seal and bearing (and a Chinese
motor).


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/4 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

"Charlie Pridham" wrote in message
...
I have a cheap Champion mower which has been excellent for the last 8
years, it has suddenly started to be very difficult to start.

Symptoms
It wont start at all on choke
on slow it fires but peters out before getting going
after about 15 pulls it finally goes and runs fine until I stop to empty
the grass box, then it will be reluctant to restart (although not as bad
as when cold)
On opening the throttle it revs up and down and is reluctant to settle and
it does similar if it suddenly has longer grass.

It seems to be worse if the fuel tank is not more than half full.

What I know its not
Spark plug, changed that it made no difference,
Air filter, took that off and it made no difference
Safety brake not clearing, checked that and it comes on and off as it
should.

Seems like a fuel problem but I have no manual, so is there a fuel filter
somewhere that could be partially blocked?, or could a partial blockage in
the carb produce these symptoms?

Any other low tech suggestions welcome


My Harry lawn mower had this (or similar) problem a while back.
The throttle regulation seems to be done by magic and various springs and
levers.
I took the cover over the carb. area off and sprayed everything with loads
of WD40 and this seemed to cure the problem.

HTH

Dave R
--
No plan survives contact with the enemy.
[Not even bunny]

Helmuth von Moltke the Elder

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

"Harry D" wrote in
:



These things are designed to get the purchaser to but a new model. Jap
Crap or Kraut, and anything in between!
Nobody wanted BSA(Birmingham Small Arms) or Triumph or AJS etc.
products and they went tits up because of shortsighted nationalism.
If I come across as racist so what.
I am backing Britain.(what is left of it)

Baz

I think they went tits up because they didn't keep up with what the
market wanted and people were dazzled by what the japs were offering.
I remember seeing one of the first Honda Dreams back in the sixties
and thinking it came from another planet!



Yes, they were nice clean jobs. No need to carry a tool kit and no oil slik
under the bike.
But they are 'disposable', in other words it is cheaper to get another one.
Has anybody here in this group tried getting engine parts for
Yam/Suz/Hon/Kaw.
When you get these parts, what about the special tools needed to do the
job?
pffft.

Baz