This is getting silly. In the UK, grapes are easy to grow, but not
easy to get a crop from, and do not ripen reliably anywhere in the
country. Runner beans are easier, but are not easy to get a good
crop from everywhere, and it can be tricky to BOTH get a crop of
green beans AND ripen some for seed. Broad beans are easier still,
but even they can be tricky in some places, especially if you want
to ripen some for seed.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Balderdash!!!

David Hill wrote:
This is getting silly. In the UK, grapes are easy to grow, but not
easy to get a crop from, and do not ripen reliably anywhere in the
country. Runner beans are easier, but are not easy to get a good
crop from everywhere, and it can be tricky to BOTH get a crop of
green beans AND ripen some for seed. Broad beans are easier still,
but even they can be tricky in some places, especially if you want
to ripen some for seed.

Balderdash!!!

On a comparative scale, I'd say Nick was spot on. Although our grapes
have reliably cropped year on year, but I think we're just quite lucky
with where we've put them. :-)

On 22/07/2012 22:40, Bob Hobden wrote:
"Moonraker" wrote

Not for taste but other reasons, I think that broad beans are my
favourite. They have very few problems and they give three possible
pickings. First I use the tops when I pinch them out as a "cabbage",
then the beans when very young are delicious cooked in their pods,
finally the mature bean give another tasty option. Also they freeze
very well. What other vegetables give such good value?

Shallots. Lots of different sorts, very reliable, excellent return on
the planting, store well and excellent in the kitchen and for pickling.
I am so sorry. I thought this would be a light topic that we could all
enjoy. However I seem to have started a bone of contention. Oh well,
that's newsgroups for you.

--
Residing on low ground in North Staffordshire

On 24/07/2012 15:11, Janet wrote:
In article , david@abacus-
nurseries.co.uk says...

This is getting silly. In the UK, grapes are easy to grow, but not
easy to get a crop from, and do not ripen reliably anywhere in the
country. Runner beans are easier, but are not easy to get a good
crop from everywhere, and it can be tricky to BOTH get a crop of
green beans AND ripen some for seed. Broad beans are easier still,
but even they can be tricky in some places, especially if you want
to ripen some for seed.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.


Balderdash!!!

Which part of Nick's commentary are you referring to?

Janet

How stupid of me, if we could rely on ripening grapes then we would have
commercial vineyards in the UK.
As for Runner beans, I have grown them commercially in both East Sussex
and Berkshire for around 15 years, in both places we grew around an
acre, and never had problems with them.
Of course you can't rely on growing them Everywhere, just as you can't
even rely on getting a crop of hay everywhere in the UK.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:47:38 +0100, David Hill
wrote:



How stupid of me, if we could rely on ripening grapes then we would have
commercial vineyards in the UK.

Llanerch Vinyard, a few miles east of me, and a few more miles east of
you, is quite a successful commercial operation.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

"Jake" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:47:38 +0100, David Hill
wrote:



How stupid of me, if we could rely on ripening grapes then we would have
commercial vineyards in the UK.

Llanerch Vinyard, a few miles east of me, and a few more miles east of
you, is quite a successful commercial operation.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

Adgestone and Rosemary Vineyards here on the Isle of Wight as well, but who
want to believe me, the truth?

Yes sad I know. They will wake up one day 'to realise the lack of their own
importance' as someone put it to me once

Kindest regards

Mike


--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

On 24/07/2012 18:03, Jake wrote:
On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 17:47:38 +0100, David Hill
wrote:



How stupid of me, if we could rely on ripening grapes then we would have
commercial vineyards in the UK.

Llanerch Vinyard, a few miles east of me, and a few more miles east of
you, is quite a successful commercial operation.

Cheers, Jake
=======================================
Urgling from the East End of Swansea Bay where sometimes
it's raining and sometimes it's not.

Jake to see the list of English and Welsh comercial vinyards see
http://www.englishwineproducers.co.u...rdregional.htm

"Moonraker" wrote ...

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Moonraker" wrote

Not for taste but other reasons, I think that broad beans are my
favourite. They have very few problems and they give three possible
pickings. First I use the tops when I pinch them out as a "cabbage",
then the beans when very young are delicious cooked in their pods,
finally the mature bean give another tasty option. Also they freeze
very well. What other vegetables give such good value?

Shallots. Lots of different sorts, very reliable, excellent return on
the planting, store well and excellent in the kitchen and for pickling.
I am so sorry. I thought this would be a light topic that we could all
enjoy. However I seem to have started a bone of contention. Oh well, that's
newsgroups for you.


As you have probably seen from a recent post of mine we all put our foot in
it occasionally despite posting with the best intentions.
Oh.well, life goes on. :-)
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In article , Sacha wrote:

Edward Hyams was among the first to reintroduce vines as wine growing
plants to UK. http://www.molash.com/archive/hyams.htm He grew several
here and in Kent before he moved and they were not a total success.
Otoh, Sharpham Vineyard on the banks of the Dart, about 30 minutes
drive from here on a busy day, produces delicious wine. We do have
commercial vineyards but not in the thousands and thousands of bottles
that can be produced in e.g. Bordeaux.

There are very mixed views about whether their wine is ever
delicious, but let that pass.

None of those vineyards would say that they can rely on the
grapes ripening enough to make good wine - indeed, the ones I
have visited have all said that they can produce drinkable
wine most years, but some years are a washout (often literally!)


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

Edward Hyams was among the first to reintroduce vines as wine growing
plants to UK. http://www.molash.com/archive/hyams.htm He grew several
here and in Kent before he moved and they were not a total success.
Otoh, Sharpham Vineyard on the banks of the Dart, about 30 minutes drive
from here on a busy day, produces delicious wine. We do have commercial
vineyards but not in the thousands and thousands of bottles that can be
produced in e.g. Bordeaux.


You might find these 2 links interesting
http://www.ideashelper.com/the-lost-...h-wales-15.htm
http://www.fruitexpert.co.uk/vineyards-britain.html
David @ the sweltering end of Swansea Bay, where it got up to 77f in the
shade.

In article , Sacha wrote:

Edward Hyams was among the first to reintroduce vines as wine growing
plants to UK. http://www.molash.com/archive/hyams.htm He grew several
here and in Kent before he moved and they were not a total success.
Otoh, Sharpham Vineyard on the banks of the Dart, about 30 minutes
drive from here on a busy day, produces delicious wine. We do have
commercial vineyards but not in the thousands and thousands of bottles
that can be produced in e.g. Bordeaux.

There are very mixed views about whether their wine is ever
delicious, but let that pass.

Sharpham and Camel Valley win many awards. The latter has, iirc,
beaten some French wines. I don't know how many you've drunk but we
have often lunched at Sharpham and enjoyed their wines, so we do have
some first hand experience. I'm not arguing about viability, merely
commenting.

When I first started trying them, the English wine lobby kept
claiming I had just been unlucky. After half-a dozen attempts,
I doubted that and, after a dozen, I was certain. Eventually,
I found a semi-expert who didn't merely spout the party line,
and my suspicions were confirmed.

While they do win medals, and are often good of their kind,
they are ALL thin and 'lightly flavoured' (which, in a foreign
wine, would be described less politely) - nowhere in the UK
gets enough sun to ripen even the special varieties developed
for the UK to produce more than that. And many wine buffs
don't like that sort of thing; you can see the evidence in
books etc. by experts - some laud English wines and others
damn with faint praise.

Every winemaker I have visited have said that they chapitalise
as a matter of routine (most always do it), and that is a
sure sign of poor ripening. Indeed, that was originally
permitted specifically as a way of producing a marketable
plonk in a year when the grapes wouldn't ripen properly.

Personally, I regret that we have downplayed our cider and
perry, which we CAN produce well.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 Sacha wrote:

Edward Hyams was among the first to reintroduce vines as wine growing
plants to UK. http://www.molash.com/archive/hyams.htm He grew several
here and in Kent before he moved and they were not a total success.
Otoh, Sharpham Vineyard on the banks of the Dart, about 30 minutes
drive from here on a busy day, produces delicious wine. We do have
commercial vineyards but not in the thousands and thousands of bottles
that can be produced in e.g. Bordeaux.

There have been advances in developing grape varieties since Hyams' time
(I believe he was active in the 1940s/50s) and in most years one can
expect a reasonable harvest.

Last year was a remarkably good year for me and I managed to produce a
reasonably good wine from the Kerner grape which is not really
recommended for Southern England/Northern France.

Despite the damp weather this year I have seen no sign of mildew yet
(crossed fingers!).

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 David Hill wrote:

How stupid of me, if we could rely on ripening grapes then we would
have commercial vineyards in the UK.

We *do* have commercial vineyards in the UK. Lots of them!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012 Sacha wrote:

On 2012-07-24 19:01:37 +0100, said:

There are very mixed views about whether their wine is ever
delicious, but let that pass.
None of those vineyards would say that they can rely on the
grapes ripening enough to make good wine - indeed, the ones I
have visited have all said that they can produce drinkable
wine most years, but some years are a washout (often literally!)

Sharpham and Camel Valley win many awards. The latter has, iirc,
beaten some French wines. I don't know how many you've drunk but we
have often lunched at Sharpham and enjoyed their wines, so we do have
some first hand experience. I'm not arguing about viability, merely
commenting.

If I remember rightly (and he is sure to correct me if I'm wrong!) from
previous exchanges I've had with him, Nick simply does not like the
kinds of wine that our northern latitude produces, preferring the fuller
flavour of wines grown in warmer climes.

Just a matter of taste.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Wed, 25 Jul 2012 Sacha wrote:

On 2012-07-25 09:47:10 +0100, David Rance said:

Last year was a remarkably good year for me and I managed to produce
a reasonably good wine from the Kerner grape which is not really
recommended for Southern England/Northern France.
Despite the damp weather this year I have seen no sign of mildew yet
(crossed fingers!).
David

The first time I saw rose ushes growing at the end of rows of vines, I
thought "how nice that they want to beautify the vineyards", not
realising they were the canary down the coalmine!

Absolutely! And, of course, the roses are sprayed with Bordeaux mixture
along with the vines!

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk