Our small veg area has remained fallow all year as yet again we are too busy
at the wrong time to be successful veg growers, we do however do well with
fruit so are planning a small area of grapes for wine making.
I am after some suggestions for an early ripening (cool summers here) grape
variety and suggestions for suppliers of plants.

The grapes we have are not suitable for wine making (Black Hamburg) or too
late ripening (Muscat of Alexandria)

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 Charlie Pridham wrote:

Our small veg area has remained fallow all year as yet again we are too
busy at the wrong time to be successful veg growers, we do however do
well with fruit so are planning a small area of grapes for wine making.
I am after some suggestions for an early ripening (cool summers here)
grape variety and suggestions for suppliers of plants.

Try these people for vines. They are in Devon at Dunkeswell, near
Honiton, and I have used them for years:

http://www.vigoltd.com/

I've tried to find a page on their web site that lists the vines they
stock but unsuccessfully. However they do publish a catalogue of vines
available together with very useful information about suitability for
different terrains which they will send you on request.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On 10/23/2012 11:35 AM, David Rance wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 Charlie Pridham wrote:

Our small veg area has remained fallow all year as yet again we are
too busy at the wrong time to be successful veg growers, we do however
do well with fruit so are planning a small area of grapes for wine
making.
I am after some suggestions for an early ripening (cool summers here)
grape variety and suggestions for suppliers of plants.

Try these people for vines. They are in Devon at Dunkeswell, near
Honiton, and I have used them for years:

http://www.vigoltd.com/

I've tried to find a page on their web site that lists the vines they
stock but unsuccessfully. However they do publish a catalogue of vines
available together with very useful information about suitability for
different terrains which they will send you on request.


This is a question that interests me also. (As with Charlie, we get too
busy to do well with veg but are OK with fruit).

David, what varieties are you growing, you have vines both in the UK and
Normandy, I believe? What does well for you?

There is a village quite near us that has planted gamay noir, which I
believe does ripen although the quality of winemaking is meant to be
abysmal. There used to be (not sure if it exists any more) a vineyard
near Caen that was growing IIRC chenin and chasselas with some success.

But I'd think the burgeoning group of English wine producers would be
the best source of information. IIRC Madeleine Angevine has been quite
successful, but I'm certainly not an expert on English wine, more's the
pity.

-E

On 23/10/2012 14:06, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:40:03 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2012-10-23 12:06:29 +0100, Emery Davis said:
snip

But I'd think the burgeoning group of English wine producers would be
the best source of information. IIRC Madeleine Angevine has been quite
successful, but I'm certainly not an expert on English wine, more's the
pity.

-E

One English winemaker (I forget which) has totally abandoned this
year's wine making.

So have the Dutch vineyards for the same reasons

I've loads of growth on my vines but not a grape to be seen.

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 23/10/2012 14:06, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:40:03 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2012-10-23 12:06:29 +0100, Emery Davis said:
snip

But I'd think the burgeoning group of English wine producers would be
the best source of information. IIRC Madeleine Angevine has been quite
successful, but I'm certainly not an expert on English wine, more's the
pity.

-E

One English winemaker (I forget which) has totally abandoned this
year's wine making.

So have the Dutch vineyards for the same reasons

I've loads of growth on my vines but not a grape to be seen.


Ditto my daughter and son in law

Mike

--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

On 10/23/2012 03:06 PM, Martin wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 12:40:03 +0100, Sacha wrote:

On 2012-10-23 12:06:29 +0100, Emery Davis said:
snip

But I'd think the burgeoning group of English wine producers would be
the best source of information. IIRC Madeleine Angevine has been quite
successful, but I'm certainly not an expert on English wine, more's the
pity.

-E

One English winemaker (I forget which) has totally abandoned this
year's wine making.

So have the Dutch vineyards for the same reasons


I was recently in Jasnieres, which is the northernmost of the Loire
appellations, and tales were similarly disastrous. Many with no wine at
all, some with 10-20% crops. Lucky for crop loss insurance!

This was Chenin and Pinot d'Aunis, BTW.

-E

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 Emery Davis wrote:

David, what varieties are you growing, you have vines both in the UK and
Normandy, I believe? What does well for you?

I have the same kinds in both Reading and Basse Normandie. I grow

1. Chasselas - at least I think it's Chasselas. It was growing on the
back of our house in Normandy when we bought it. I took cuttings and
established a small vineyard mainly with them. They ripen August/
September, depending on the year. Cons: they are very susceptible to
mildew and need to be sprayed regularly with Bordeaux mixture, ideally
(according to the books) every fifteen days but I can usually get away
with once a month.

2. Seyval Blanc - I was given some cuttings of this back in 1976 by
someone who had a vineyard in Wales. Those were the early days of the
viticulture revival in Britain and was one of the two main grape
varieties grown then (the other was Muller-Thurgau). Pros: it's a hybrid
and is not susceptible to mildew or any other disease in my experience.
Cons: none. However it does ripen later in late September/October and
produces a much fresher wine. For this reason many vineyards in the UK
use it for producing sparkling wine. It is *very* prolific.

3. Kerner - I bought 25 of these ten years ago from Vigo. I wanted a
Riesling cross but hadn't had much success with Muller-Thurgau in the
past. It, too, ripens in late September/October, but it, too, suffers
from mildew if not sprayed regularly. Produces an acceptable wine.

I usually have to have two vendanges periods a month apart because of
this. Last year I gathered the Chasselas at the end of September and the
others in October. This year they were all a month later and I've just
returned from "doing the wine" for this year.

There is a village quite near us that has planted gamay noir, which I
believe does ripen although the quality of winemaking is meant to be
abysmal. There used to be (not sure if it exists any more) a vineyard
near Caen that was growing IIRC chenin and chasselas with some success.

We're 30 miles south of Caen. I wouldn't try to grow black grapes
seriously at our latitude because they will never mature well enough to
produce a good red. Some vineyards in England claim to do it but I am
suspicious of their methods. But Chasselas and, I guess, Chenin blanc,
will do well in Calvados. Whereabouts are you?

But I'd think the burgeoning group of English wine producers would be
the best source of information. IIRC Madeleine Angevine has been quite
successful, but I'm certainly not an expert on English wine, more's the
pity.

I've heard of Madeleine Angevine being grown very successfully in
England. In fact, I think the vineyard at Twyford, about five miles from
here, grows it.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 Martin wrote:

But I'd think the burgeoning group of English wine producers would be
the best source of information. IIRC Madeleine Angevine has been quite
successful, but I'm certainly not an expert on English wine, more's the
pity.

One English winemaker (I forget which) has totally abandoned this
year's wine making.

So have the Dutch vineyards for the same reasons

I've loads of growth on my vines but not a grape to be seen.

We had a few, but nothing worth picking.

My yield was down to 25% of what I had last year but that wasn't
entirely due to the weather, but rather to do with the strike by
Brittany Ferries. I was intending to gather the Chasselas grapes in
September but couldn't and so I had to leave it until last week.

As a result the birds and mice had a lot of the crop. I have two large
vines on the back and side of the house in Normandy and the little
critters had the lot even though I'd netted them. They didn't really get
going on the grapes in the vineyards, thank goodness, though I did lose
some that way. I know it was blackbirds because I saw them, and I know
it was mice because I found out where they had stored them! If I hadn't
lost so much to these depredations, I would probably have been down only
to 50% of last year's crop. However last year was a good year, probably
my best ever. In spite of the wet weather not many of the grapes
succumbed to the grey mould, thank goodness.

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 clematis wrote:

Weather hasn't been great for grapes this year.... they really need dry heat
for a good few weeks running up to harvest time..(September ..ish) but...
Actually "lots" of growth isn't really what's needed... you MUST cut back
hard either after picking and the leaves have dropped or feb/march ish
....cut back to main stem. Hard.
There should be just main plant stem left only.....

That's a little simplistic! You have to leave a couple of buds from
current growth. Also pruning must be done in December/January when sap
is at its lowest and the vines have a chance of healing over the cut
otherwise it will bleed profusely and is likely to die. February? - you
can possibly get away with it. But March is far too late, especially if
there is an early spring.

I must finish my pages on growing vines on my web site. I've done
nothing to them for the last few years as I've been doing web sites for
other people.

David (who has been growing vines for thirty-six years!)

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

"Charlie Pridham" wrote

Our small veg area has remained fallow all year as yet again we are too
busy at the wrong time to be successful veg growers, we do however do well
with fruit so are planning a small area of grapes for wine making.
I am after some suggestions for an early ripening (cool summers here) grape
variety and suggestions for suppliers of plants.

The grapes we have are not suitable for wine making (Black Hamburg) or too
late ripening (Muscat of Alexandria)


Why not have a word with Camel Valley Wines, they can't be too far from you
and they make award winning wines.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

In my experience Phoenix is very early ripening, and a local vineyard to me, Frithsden, uses it to make very nice wine. Also mildew resistant, which is useful for places with cooler damper climate. But it is a hybrid of 75% vinifera 25% american if that offends you. I have Phoenix against a south facing garage wall, and got a huge crop this year, though they didn't all get perfectly ripe like they have previously. Regent is similar as a red grape, though mine isn't doing so well, but I bought it second and it didn't get the best spot.

I observe it is one of the 4 varieties this Irish (!!) nursery recommends.
Grapevines for Ireland
Though he particularly recommends Rondo and Solaris - I am not aware of these ones.

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 clematis wrote:

"David Rance" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 clematis wrote:

Weather hasn't been great for grapes this year.... they really need dry
heat
for a good few weeks running up to harvest time..(September ..ish) but...
Actually "lots" of growth isn't really what's needed... you MUST cut
back
hard either after picking and the leaves have dropped or feb/march ish
....cut back to main stem. Hard.
There should be just main plant stem left only.....


That's a little simplistic! You have to leave a couple of buds from
current growth. Also pruning must be done in December/January when sap is
at its lowest and the vines have a chance of healing over the cut
otherwise it will bleed profusely and is likely to die. February? - you
can possibly get away with it. But March is far too late, especially if
there is an early spring.

The volume (southern) French growers leave three nubs on an 'upright' vine
(ie, those not hanging with table grapes) but they do not necessarily leave
any of the yearly growth as well....In most cases, it is cut back to one of
the three nubs. If a stem is left it is cut to the first apparant shooting
bud point....
I think I should have conveyed the idea better that leaving (just about) all
yearly growth is NOT what is required to produce the following year and
harsh cutting is the answer to abundant grapes.
They do similar with the wire trained vines for machine harvesting.
Usually, table grapes are ripe before they harvest the grapes for wine
making. Not by much, may be two or three weeks.
The 'Taille' (pruning) is carried out differently by different growers.
Some start straight (within about four weeks, that is) after the leaves have
dropped. Others wait until the new year.
Now some of this practice is purely practical reasons ( I accept that) ..if
you have 5 Hectare (for example) you have to start somewhere, sometime and
the whole area will/could/might take 6 weeks or more to complete - depending
on how many people are doing the *pruning*. I appreciate March is a little
late....
We may be at some odds here..... I am talking (mainly) about vines that are
many years old - at least 20 - which really do not risk dying from such
pruning ... though I also accept practices may differ due to weather
conditions as well.

Just out of interest, what pruning method do *you* practise?

David

--
David Rance writing from Caversham, Reading, UK
http://rance.org.uk

"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
"Charlie Pridham" wrote

Our small veg area has remained fallow all year as yet again we are too
busy at the wrong time to be successful veg growers, we do however do well
with fruit so are planning a small area of grapes for wine making.
I am after some suggestions for an early ripening (cool summers here)
grape variety and suggestions for suppliers of plants.

The grapes we have are not suitable for wine making (Black Hamburg) or too
late ripening (Muscat of Alexandria)


Why not have a word with Camel Valley Wines, they can't be too far from
you and they make award winning wines.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

They seem to use a Pinot Blanco making sparkling white wines, this seems to
be a sport of Pinot Noir, sounds like a possibility

Thanks to everyone else for the suggestions thus far, we also lost all our
grapes this year to mildew.


As far as pruning goes, I am OK with that

--
Charlie, Gardening in Cornwall
Holders of National Collections of Clematis viticella
and Lapageria rosea cvs
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk

On 10/23/2012 04:51 PM, David Rance wrote:
On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 Emery Davis wrote:

David, what varieties are you growing, you have vines both in the UK and
Normandy, I believe? What does well for you?

I have the same kinds in both Reading and Basse Normandie. I grow

1. Chasselas - at least I think it's Chasselas. It was growing on the
back of our house in Normandy when we bought it. I took cuttings and
established a small vineyard mainly with them. They ripen August/
September, depending on the year. Cons: they are very susceptible to
mildew and need to be sprayed regularly with Bordeaux mixture, ideally
(according to the books) every fifteen days but I can usually get away
with once a month.

2. Seyval Blanc - I was given some cuttings of this back in 1976 by
someone who had a vineyard in Wales. Those were the early days of the
viticulture revival in Britain and was one of the two main grape
varieties grown then (the other was Muller-Thurgau). Pros: it's a hybrid
and is not susceptible to mildew or any other disease in my experience.
Cons: none. However it does ripen later in late September/October and
produces a much fresher wine. For this reason many vineyards in the UK
use it for producing sparkling wine. It is *very* prolific.


I take it you mean it's very acidic? I guess this is virtually unknown
in France... It seems to be a V. labrusca cross perhaps? (Wiki says it
has non-vinifera genes). That would make it illegal to call the wine
"wine" in the EU I believe! (Not that it would stop me, mind).

3. Kerner - I bought 25 of these ten years ago from Vigo. I wanted a
Riesling cross but hadn't had much success with Muller-Thurgau in the
past. It, too, ripens in late September/October, but it, too, suffers
from mildew if not sprayed regularly. Produces an acceptable wine.


This is all great information, thanks.

[]
We're 30 miles south of Caen. I wouldn't try to grow black grapes
seriously at our latitude because they will never mature well enough to
produce a good red. Some vineyards in England claim to do it but I am
suspicious of their methods. But Chasselas and, I guess, Chenin blanc,
will do well in Calvados. Whereabouts are you?


A little south of you, in the Orne. Just south of Argentan in the foret
d'Ecouves. Our problem is that the soil is pretty acidic, but I gather
vines like chalk. I'd like to plant a couple of rows eventually, maybe
2 or 3 varieties.

-E