Now I am not someone who believes everything I hear, but an interesting
excerpt I heard on the Channel 5 programme about fitness facts, was that
vegetables grown and sold now (so not the ones we grow ourselves I am
assuming) are seriously less valuable nutrition wise than those grown
and eaten in the 20's
can anyone really confirm this which must be yet another really good
reason to grow your own food as much as possible, and why are they less
nutritious. They gave two examples cabbage and spinach.

"Janet Tweedy" wrote

Now I am not someone who believes everything I hear, but an interesting
excerpt I heard on the Channel 5 programme about fitness facts, was that
vegetables grown and sold now (so not the ones we grow ourselves I am
assuming) are seriously less valuable nutrition wise than those grown and
eaten in the 20's
can anyone really confirm this which must be yet another really good reason
to grow your own food as much as possible, and why are they less
nutritious. They gave two examples cabbage and spinach.

It's possible that the high use of nitrogen fertilizer may cause that or the
modern varieties used for quick growing. Certainly it's noticeable that some
older varieties of veg have more taste ie. Majestic potatoes for chips.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

On 02/01/2013 08:59, Bob Hobden wrote:
"Janet Tweedy" wrote

Now I am not someone who believes everything I hear, but an
interesting excerpt I heard on the Channel 5 programme about fitness
facts, was that vegetables grown and sold now (so not the ones we grow
ourselves I am assuming) are seriously less valuable nutrition wise
than those grown and eaten in the 20's
can anyone really confirm this which must be yet another really good
reason to grow your own food as much as possible, and why are they
less nutritious. They gave two examples cabbage and spinach.

It's possible that the high use of nitrogen fertilizer may cause that or
the modern varieties used for quick growing. Certainly it's noticeable
that some older varieties of veg have more taste ie. Majestic potatoes
for chips.
It's because they have taken all those great chemicals out of them,
insecticides etc.

Here's a link to an abstract by the author responsible for the original work, which was in the 1980s. Of the 8 minerals usually measure, she shows that there are statistically significant reductions in the levels of Ca, Mg, Cu and Na in vegetables and Mg, Fe, Cu and K in fruit. Only P is unaffected. In fruit, their is a significant increase in water content. She gives a number of hypothetical reasons (anomolies in measurement, varieties, agricultural practice) and says research is needed to determine the cause.

ingentaconnect Historical changes in the mineral content of fruits and vegetable...

On 02/01/2013 08:14, Chris Hogg wrote:
I wonder how they know, because methods of nutritional analysis in the
1920's must surely have been relatively crude, if they existed at all,
compared with modern techniques. And does it necessarily mean that
growing your own today is any better than buying in supermarkets, or
is it that if there is a difference between now and then, that it's
due more to the varieties grown than the growing conditions, in which
case growing your own may not produce anything better.


Well that's why I wondered. I thought it might be becuaue they push too
many nutrients into the plants making them grow too fast too large too
quickly whereas vegetables grown slower, or of older, less economically
viable non-uniform types retain more goodness? or do they pick them
before they can develop properly?

"Martin" wrote

David Hill wrote:

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Janet Tweedy" wrote

Now I am not someone who believes everything I hear, but an
interesting excerpt I heard on the Channel 5 programme about fitness
facts, was that vegetables grown and sold now (so not the ones we grow
ourselves I am assuming) are seriously less valuable nutrition wise
than those grown and eaten in the 20's
can anyone really confirm this which must be yet another really good
reason to grow your own food as much as possible, and why are they
less nutritious. They gave two examples cabbage and spinach.

It's possible that the high use of nitrogen fertilizer may cause that or
the modern varieties used for quick growing. Certainly it's noticeable
that some older varieties of veg have more taste ie. Majestic potatoes
for chips.
It's because they have taken all those great chemicals out of them,
insecticides etc.

Spinach fails the Pop Eye test.

Bintjes for chips.

Not if you want the old authentic chip shop taste of chips, then it has to
be Majestic.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK

The link I posted above suggested variety, growing conditions and measurement problems as possible links. I think Janet's making good points. Growing them fast will give higher water content (which has been measured in fruit), breeding for uniformity, appearance and disease resistance means you won't necessarily retain nutrient levels, and picking early undoubtedly does have an effect on taste, so quite possibly on nutrient values too.

I've been impressed the last couple of years how home grown tomatoes even of varieties not noted for taste can taste much more intense than supermarket ones. And if taste is affected, I would expect nutrient levels to be affected too.

"kay" wrote in message
...

'Janet Tweedy[_2_ Wrote:
;975752']On 02/01/2013 08:14, Chris Hogg wrote:-
I wonder how they know, because methods of nutritional analysis in the
1920's must surely have been relatively crude, if they existed at all,
compared with modern techniques. And does it necessarily mean that
growing your own today is any better than buying in supermarkets, or
is it that if there is a difference between now and then, that it's
due more to the varieties grown than the growing conditions, in which
case growing your own may not produce anything better.-


Well that's why I wondered. I thought it might be becuaue they push too

many nutrients into the plants making them grow too fast too large too
quickly whereas vegetables grown slower, or of older, less economically

viable non-uniform types retain more goodness? or do they pick them
before they can develop properly?

The link I posted above suggested variety, growing conditions and
measurement problems as possible links. I think Janet's making good
points. Growing them fast will give higher water content (which has been
measured in fruit), breeding for uniformity, appearance and disease
resistance means you won't necessarily retain nutrient levels, and
picking early undoubtedly does have an effect on taste, so quite
possibly on nutrient values too.

I've been impressed the last couple of years how home grown tomatoes
even of varieties not noted for taste can taste much more intense than
supermarket ones. And if taste is affected, I would expect nutrient
levels to be affected too.




--
kay

I find this thread interesting because one of the talks I give is on
'Rationing During World War II', I gave one yesterday afternoon to a WI
Group and never does the matter of taste come into conversation. I am doing
the talk again to another group of Ladies on Tuesday and whilst the subject
of the fact that we ate healthy food then, and what the size of the
population is now and is currently in the news and we eat too much hence the
obesity, I will introduce 'taste' and see what the Ladies say.

Very interesting how many IOW Urglers I meet :-)

Mike


--

....................................

I'm an Angel, honest ! The horns are there just to keep the halo straight.

....................................

"Martin" wrote

"Bob Hobden""Martin" wrote

David Hill wrote:

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Janet Tweedy" wrote

Now I am not someone who believes everything I hear, but an
interesting excerpt I heard on the Channel 5 programme about fitness
facts, was that vegetables grown and sold now (so not the ones we
grow
ourselves I am assuming) are seriously less valuable nutrition wise
than those grown and eaten in the 20's
can anyone really confirm this which must be yet another really good
reason to grow your own food as much as possible, and why are they
less nutritious. They gave two examples cabbage and spinach.

It's possible that the high use of nitrogen fertilizer may cause that
or
the modern varieties used for quick growing. Certainly it's noticeable
that some older varieties of veg have more taste ie. Majestic potatoes
for chips.
It's because they have taken all those great chemicals out of them,
insecticides etc.

Spinach fails the Pop Eye test.

Bintjes for chips.

Not if you want the old authentic chip shop taste of chips, then it has to
be Majestic.

I don't want limp UK chip shop soggy chips. I want and get
Dutch/Belgian type chips. They grow and use Bintjes


Majestic chips are certainly not limp and soggy (if cooked right) but they
were the variety the chip shops used to use in the "old days" and it's them
that had that taste us older people remember.
--
Regards. Bob Hobden.
Posted to this Newsgroup from the W of London, UK