In article ,
Christina Websell wrote:


As I point out above, the argument that there is no room for them
IS nonsense, pure and simple. They would merely displace some of
the existing deer.

What deer? The only deer here are enclosed in Bradgate Park.

I suggest that you look at the references I gave. Even though the
relevant deer (roe and muntjac) are shy, solitary, woodland animals,
crepuscular in the case of the first and nocturnal and favouring
thick cover in the case of the second, and so are rarely seen by
the general public, the evidence of their existence and density is
clear for those with eyes to see.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 14/05/2015 21:18, Janet wrote:
In article ,
says...

"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2015 20:56, Christina Websell wrote:
"Phil Cook" wrote in message
...
On 04/05/2015 21:58, Christina Websell wrote:
"Chris Hogg" wrote in message
...

I don't see the need for the re-introduction of species that have died
out from the UK, just because they used to be around decades or
centuries ago. Move on!

Agree.

Tell that to all the folk making a mint from the ornithological tourism
in
the Hebrides and West Highlands after the re-introduction of the white
tailed sea eagle.


Which is not quite the same as having lynx, is it? they will be a
perfect
nuisance around poultry and sheep. I say NO.

I've seen a white tailed sea eagle facing off with a ewe over a dead lamb.
Those birds aren't small.
--
and your point is?

His point is, that the re-introduction of wtse's was and is as
controversial to sheep farmers.

There not room for lynxes (or wolves) to be reintroduced here

Presumably you're referring to arable Lincolnshire, which afaik is not
the area where lynx would be introduced.

I suspect you haven't seen the amount of "room available" in the
Scottish Highlands. Or, the unnatural degree of damage done to the
native ecology there, by uncontrolled deer.

Janet

I was under the impression that the problem in the Scottish Highlands
was red deer. As I understand from this thread, lynx aren't a solution
to the red deer problem. I'd be mildly concerned about the effects of
lynx on hare populations, as I have the impression that hare populations
aren't all that healthy in the first place.

(Where I live apparently there are no deer species, which may be why the
ground flora is healthy in several of the local woodlands - in others it
is suppressed by Rhododendron ponticum.)

--
SRH

In article ,
says...

"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...


If anything is to be introduced, I say it should be beavers.

They already have been, in Scotland.

Janet


Beavers are OK in Scotland where there is room for them. Lynxes will be a
nuisance. No lamb will be safe. Nor poultry.

You may be amazed to hear that in Scotland there are VAST areas
unoccupied by humans, sheep or farmed poultry.

Janet

In article ,
says...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

Let's take one example: there is no room. Lynx are shy, solitary,
woodland hunters which prey on shy, solitary, woodland deer, and
(where present) have the effect of replacing some of the deer with
lynx. So it's obvious nonsense, and can be seen to be so by simple
data searches.

No, not nonsense. The arguments against the introduction of lynx were
not strong, I'll readily agree, and in fact I found your
counter-arguments quite persuasive. But the arguments against its
introduction were not hysterical. To describe them as such is 'ad
hominem' and ill befits a academic such as yourself.

As I point out above, the argument that there is no room for them
IS nonsense, pure and simple. They would merely displace some of
the existing deer.


What deer? The only deer here are enclosed in Bradgate Park.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/Re...tsheets/S4/SB_
13-74.pdf

The most recent population estimates
for Scotland suggest overall numbers of between
360,000-400,000 red deer,
200,000-350,000 roe deer,
25,000 sika deer
and an estimated 2,000 fallow deer


Janet.

In article ,
says...
There not room for lynxes (or wolves) to be reintroduced here

Presumably you're referring to arable Lincolnshire, which afaik is not
the area where lynx would be introduced.

I suspect you haven't seen the amount of "room available" in the
Scottish Highlands. Or, the unnatural degree of damage done to the
native ecology there, by uncontrolled deer.

Janet

I was under the impression that the problem in the Scottish Highlands
was red deer. As I understand from this thread, lynx aren't a solution
to the red deer problem.

I'm not sure why you think that; lynx predate red deer in Europe.

Janet

On Sat, 16 May 2015 17:47:19 +0100, Janet wrote:

In article ,
says...

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

Let's take one example: there is no room. Lynx are shy, solitary,
woodland hunters which prey on shy, solitary, woodland deer, and
(where present) have the effect of replacing some of the deer with
lynx. So it's obvious nonsense, and can be seen to be so by simple
data searches.

No, not nonsense. The arguments against the introduction of lynx were
not strong, I'll readily agree, and in fact I found your
counter-arguments quite persuasive. But the arguments against its
introduction were not hysterical. To describe them as such is 'ad
hominem' and ill befits a academic such as yourself.

As I point out above, the argument that there is no room for them
IS nonsense, pure and simple. They would merely displace some of
the existing deer.


What deer? The only deer here are enclosed in Bradgate Park.

http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/Re...tsheets/S4/SB_
13-74.pdf

The most recent population estimates
for Scotland suggest overall numbers of between
360,000-400,000 red deer,
200,000-350,000 roe deer,
25,000 sika deer
and an estimated 2,000 fallow deer

England and Wales hold over 1 million making an estimated total for
the UK of 2 million.

On Sat, 16 May 2015 00:26:19 +0100, "Christina Websell"
wrote:


"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Chris Hogg wrote:

Let's take one example: there is no room. Lynx are shy, solitary,
woodland hunters which prey on shy, solitary, woodland deer, and
(where present) have the effect of replacing some of the deer with
lynx. So it's obvious nonsense, and can be seen to be so by simple
data searches.

No, not nonsense. The arguments against the introduction of lynx were
not strong, I'll readily agree, and in fact I found your
counter-arguments quite persuasive. But the arguments against its
introduction were not hysterical. To describe them as such is 'ad
hominem' and ill befits a academic such as yourself.

As I point out above, the argument that there is no room for them
IS nonsense, pure and simple. They would merely displace some of
the existing deer.


What deer? The only deer here are enclosed in Bradgate Park.

However, the Leics and Rutland Wildlife Trust state on their website:

"In Leicestershire and Rutland Fallow Deer are mainly confined to
eastern Rutland and parts of north west Leicestershire, while the
smaller Muntjac is more widespread. Both of these species have been
introduced to Britain. The native Red Deer is only now found in
Bradgate and Donington Parks, apart from the odd escapee. The Roe Deer
is also a native species, and having been hunted to local extinction
centuries ago, it has recently spread back into Leicestershire and
Rutland. Deer browsing is a concern in parts of the counties, but not
yet to the extent that it is in other places, such as Breckland.
However, the situation does seem to be getting worse.

It is widely accepted that deer are more abundant and widespread now
than at any time in the past 1,000 years, and that deer are causing
significant damage to woodland habitats and the species that rely on
them. Due to a lack of natural predators, the role of human control
becomes more important, particularly when the conservation status of
native wildlife is threatened."

You have been warned!

On Sun, 17 May 2015 11:56:52 +0100, Malcolm Ogilvie wrote:

England and Wales hold over 1 million making an estimated total for the
UK of 2 million.

By way of comparison, the French population of mostly red and roe deer
has increased from 37,500 in 1985 to about 160,000 in 2010.



--
Gardening in Lower Normandy

In article , says...
It is very interesting to see the completely different reaction on this
group to the reaction on uk.rec.natural-history.

Largely hysterical here, more 'yeah, so what" on uk.rec.natural-history.


Probably urnh attracts more posters who have a clue about UK natural
history :-)
Janet.

In article ,
says...
There are100,000s of deer across the UK - most people simply never see
them or are aware they are there. Apart from dropping, the failure of
woodlands to regenerate is a clear sign of lots of deer.

Last night, on the Scottish mainland in Argyll, as we went out of our
B and B at 7pm for dinner, there were three adult red deer grazing
within 20 m of our parked car.

This morning, we drove 12 miles from Lochranza to Brodick in broad
daylight. In the first 9 miles we passed 9 wild red deer.

Janet (Isle of Arran)

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
On 15/05/2015 22:43, Christina Websell wrote:
"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...


If anything is to be introduced, I say it should be beavers.

They already have been, in Scotland.

Janet


Beavers are OK in Scotland where there is room for them. Lynxes will be a
nuisance. No lamb will be safe. Nor poultry.


But they may scare the sh.. out of the moles

grin I'd prefer to have moles.

"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...

"Janet" wrote in message
t...
In article ,
says...


If anything is to be introduced, I say it should be beavers.

They already have been, in Scotland.

Janet


Beavers are OK in Scotland where there is room for them. Lynxes will be a
nuisance. No lamb will be safe. Nor poultry.

You may be amazed to hear that in Scotland there are VAST areas
unoccupied by humans, sheep or farmed poultry.

Janet

No I am not amazed. My father was a Scot.

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Christina Websell wrote:


As I point out above, the argument that there is no room for them
IS nonsense, pure and simple. They would merely displace some of
the existing deer.

What deer? The only deer here are enclosed in Bradgate Park.

I suggest that you look at the references I gave. Even though the
relevant deer (roe and muntjac) are shy, solitary, woodland animals,
crepuscular in the case of the first and nocturnal and favouring
thick cover in the case of the second, and so are rarely seen by
the general public, the evidence of their existence and density is
clear for those with eyes to see.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I do not want Lynx here. Full stop. Deer are not a problem here, we just eat
them, venison is yummy.

"Tim Watts" wrote in message
...
On 05/05/15 15:38, Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
Nick Maclaren wrote:
On Tue, 05 May 2015 12:30:50 +0100, Tim Watts wrote:

On 05/05/15 12:02, Nick Maclaren wrote:

Unfortunately, due to the hysteria of the ignorant, it is unlikely to
be in time to save many of the UK's woodland underplants and animals
(including birds and butterflies). I don't expect to live to see the
deer menace (and it IS an ecological menace) alleviated.

So let me get this straight - anyone who disagrees with you is
"hysterical" and "ignorant".

How patronising.

No, just you.

You're special.

In case anyone failed to notice, this was a forgery.

The trolls are out in force...

Anyway - I suspect we are doomed to disagree - and whilst you may feel
more qualified, it would be good to accept that other folk may not feel
particularly at ease with the re-introduction of less than fluffy new
animals (or even very old but locally extinct) animals... I claim no
particular qualifications re lynx, bears or wolves, but I do not want any
of them roaming around near me...

Me neither.

"Larry Stoter" wrote in message
...
Christina Websell wrote:

"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Larry Stoter wrote:

Christina Websell wrote:
"Bob Hobden" wrote in message
...
Interesting reintroduction planned for specific areas, it's
worked
in some
other areas of Europe and we certainly need something to control
the
Deer.

http://www.lynxuk.org/

Absolutely NOT.

Oh, definitely yes.

Prefered prey is deer of which there are far to many in the UK -
because
there are no natural predators - causing all sorts of habitat
destruction.

Reintroduction of Lynx is already happening in large parts of Western
Europe and seems to be going fairly well.

Lynx would be a marvellous addition to many ecosystems.

Whatever you think, proposals for the reintroduction of Lynx are in the
pipeline, see:

http://www.theguardian.com/environme...wilding-britai
n-wildlife-countryside?CMP=share_btn_tw

Unfortunately, due to the hysteria of the ignorant, it is unlikely to
be
in time to save many of the UK's woodland underplants and animals
(including birds and butterflies). I don't expect to live to see the
deer menace (and it IS an ecological menace) alleviated.

Nick Maclaren.

No deer menace in my part of the UK.

There are100,000s of deer across the UK - most people simply never see
them or are aware they are there. Apart from dropping, the failure of
woodlands to regenerate is a clear sign of lots of deer.

Larry

None here. Except in Bradgate Park. My neighbour claims he once saw a
muntjac in the fields at the bottom of our gardens. No reason to think he's
not telling the truth. I've lived here for 30 years and never seen any deer
near here.