"The Devil's Advocate" wrote in message
If it's anything like the allotments near us that have been converted
you'll
get a varying band of trouble makers who will disturb the peace on and off
till nearly ten sometimes. Make sure you don't build any shelters that the
youths can congregate in

That is always a problem in a Park, kids who don't want to or aren't welcome
to stay at home with their friends where they should be.
Friends who live opposite a large Park say they get loud talking, laughter,
shouts and even bloodcurdling screams at all time of the night.
I'm convinced this Park will need to be secured at night and have CCTV
monitored 24/7 or it will become a flytippers paradise amongst other things.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

"The Devil's Advocate" wrote in message
If it's anything like the allotments near us that have been converted
you'll
get a varying band of trouble makers who will disturb the peace on and off
till nearly ten sometimes. Make sure you don't build any shelters that the
youths can congregate in

That is always a problem in a Park, kids who don't want to or aren't welcome
to stay at home with their friends where they should be.

Why should they be at home? I'd hate to be cooped up indoors every
evening. It's only when they start causing a nuisance that they're
*real* problem. If the rest of us are intimidated by the sight of a
group of kids, that's our problem not theirs. The majority of kids are a
delight to be with!

But yes, don't encourage congregation of large groups. Site seats in an
area where they are in full view, and don't put groups of seats
together.

Friends who live opposite a large Park say they get loud talking, laughter,
shouts and even bloodcurdling screams at all time of the night.
I'm convinced this Park will need to be secured at night and have CCTV
monitored 24/7 or it will become a flytippers paradise amongst other things.

The worst of flytipping can be kept out be keeping vehicles out -
fencing, and lockable posts on the path entrances. Also stops the
problem of burnt out cars.

Any 'dens' should be destroyed as soon as seen - they're not a problem
in themselves, but they are a magnet for arsonists

You will have rubbish, and there's no way to stop that.

Find out what people will want to do in the park. If it's a wildlife
park, then people will want to be able to go through at dusk and early
morning when the best wildlife is to be seen.

The safer you can make it feel, and the more people you can encourage
through, especially by having a useful through route, the less trouble
you will get.

We run a nature park in the town centre. We do get a lot of rubbish
tipping, vandalism, arson. But the plus side is that the park is used by
a huge number of people, and it wouldn't give that much enjoyment to
people if it were out in the country in some vandal free area.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

"The Devil's Advocate" wrote in message
If it's anything like the allotments near us that have been converted
you'll
get a varying band of trouble makers who will disturb the peace on and off
till nearly ten sometimes. Make sure you don't build any shelters that the
youths can congregate in

That is always a problem in a Park, kids who don't want to or aren't welcome
to stay at home with their friends where they should be.

Why should they be at home? I'd hate to be cooped up indoors every
evening. It's only when they start causing a nuisance that they're
*real* problem. If the rest of us are intimidated by the sight of a
group of kids, that's our problem not theirs. The majority of kids are a
delight to be with!

But yes, don't encourage congregation of large groups. Site seats in an
area where they are in full view, and don't put groups of seats
together.

Friends who live opposite a large Park say they get loud talking, laughter,
shouts and even bloodcurdling screams at all time of the night.
I'm convinced this Park will need to be secured at night and have CCTV
monitored 24/7 or it will become a flytippers paradise amongst other things.

The worst of flytipping can be kept out be keeping vehicles out -
fencing, and lockable posts on the path entrances. Also stops the
problem of burnt out cars.

Any 'dens' should be destroyed as soon as seen - they're not a problem
in themselves, but they are a magnet for arsonists

You will have rubbish, and there's no way to stop that.

Find out what people will want to do in the park. If it's a wildlife
park, then people will want to be able to go through at dusk and early
morning when the best wildlife is to be seen.

The safer you can make it feel, and the more people you can encourage
through, especially by having a useful through route, the less trouble
you will get.

We run a nature park in the town centre. We do get a lot of rubbish
tipping, vandalism, arson. But the plus side is that the park is used by
a huge number of people, and it wouldn't give that much enjoyment to
people if it were out in the country in some vandal free area.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Kay wrote in message

That is always a problem in a Park, kids who don't want to or aren't
welcome
to stay at home with their friends where they should be.

Why should they be at home? I'd hate to be cooped up indoors every
evening. It's only when they start causing a nuisance that they're
*real* problem. If the rest of us are intimidated by the sight of a
group of kids, that's our problem not theirs. The majority of kids are a
delight to be with!

I should have clarified, " Park at night" is what I meant, and I don't think
kids should be out and about at night with parents not knowing what they are
doing or who they are with. They should be encouraged to bring their friends
home (so the parents can check them out). Perhaps I'm oldfashioned.

Thanks for the comments though, practicle advice always welcome. :-)

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

I think you're right Bob, too many youths wreak havoc because their parents
don't give a damn, and people feel powerless to stop them. As Kay says,
however, the majority are fine; a case of one or two bad apples spoiling the
lot

Bob Hobden wrote:
"Kay wrote in message

That is always a problem in a Park, kids who don't want to or
aren't welcome to stay at home with their friends where they
should be.

Why should they be at home? I'd hate to be cooped up indoors every
evening. It's only when they start causing a nuisance that they're
*real* problem. If the rest of us are intimidated by the sight of a
group of kids, that's our problem not theirs. The majority of kids
are a delight to be with!

I should have clarified, " Park at night" is what I meant, and I
don't think kids should be out and about at night with parents not
knowing what they are doing or who they are with. They should be
encouraged to bring their friends home (so the parents can check
them out). Perhaps I'm oldfashioned.

Thanks for the comments though, practicle advice always welcome. :-)

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

Robert The Devil's Advocate www.pafc.co.uk

In article , Bob Hobden
writes
BlankKnowing that professional gardeners etc, read this Ng does anyone know
of sources of cash grants for the making and equipping of Parks and open
spaces?

The reason I ask is that our allotment site is to become a park but the
Council say they have little money to provide what the locals want, indeed
the last thing I heard was that no playground equipment would be provided
for the kids and even trees could not be funded. A grass field only then.
Might as well leave it as the nature reserve it has become.


Bob (and anybody else interested)

I attended a Community Forum Conference last night which dealt with all
sorts of topics, but primarily aimed at the Communities 'helping
themselves' with the help of others, but you cannot work on your own.
There has to be a set non profit making organisation, with a bank
account, a set of rules or 'constitution' and hold 'regular meetings'
and have an aim and object in mind. You make reference elsewhere of the
'Friends', if you want to see action, go and join them and get them to
do things. Money, or lack of it now, is not a barrier. It does not stop
you from starting and contacting all the various different organisations
which will give money. There 'IS' a budget within your council for such
projects and there will be a person there to help you. Track them down
and talk to them, or get someone in the 'Friends' to get them off their
backside.

One you can get started with is "Awards for All England" they could give
your group between £500 and £5000 and I believe this is the one I spoke
about earlier and gave our Administrator the telephone number, which you
asked for. For an Information and Application Pack, telephone 0845 600
2040 or you can go to their website at www.awardsforall.org.uk. This
group is for all of England and when you get the pack, you will see the
country is divided up into 9 regions.

The Leader of our Council opened the Conference and explained that in
our area, there are 34 'Forums', 'Partnerships' or 'Local Groups'
covering the area and the council have given out £150,000 across these
34 Groups. I would imagine, that your council have a 'supply of cash' as
well, maybe not this year, but get in there NOW and shout your mouth
off, 'in the nicest possible way' :-)) and get yourself known. If you,
or a member of the group 'put themselves forward' in a very determined
way, you will be listened to. Don't be side tracked and don't be put
off.

That is just a bit more help, but I do strongly recommend that you get
into or form a group. (Sounds as though you have) As I said before,
there is TONS of money available, but you have to be organised. 'Just
you' or 'Tom', 'Dick', or 'Harry' will be swept away.

Good luck and best wishes

Mike


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one
pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside,
thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!

The Devil's Advocate wrote:


I think you're right Bob, too many youths wreak havoc because their parents
don't give a damn, and people feel powerless to stop them. As Kay says,
however, the majority are fine; a case of one or two bad apples spoiling the
lot


Most true.. Should you get funding though, consider appropriate 'street
furniture' that will allow them to have a 'space' of their own within
the park.. Various co's cater specially for teen/yong persons age
group.. Inc. teen meeting places (almost like an 'open' bus shelter
but more 'trendy' and a 'park gym' Gym equipment eg weights resistance
equipment etc.. but made of metal so vitually vandal proof
This co also makes bike racks etc..


See www.asaleisurre.com almost like 'play equipment for adults';-)

WORST thing you can do IMO is ignore and isolate them further.. only
breeds resentment between groups (on both sides)

And arunhithe for bike racks and shelters etc..
http://catalogues.kellysearch.com/ca...?ck=02059774&p
roduct-no=7339506&pg=1&cn=1

&
http://www.endat.com/EWC/mainlisting...8035&Category=
1040&CFID=781762&CFTOKEN=10345107
Street and Urban Furniture.

External Works Compendium - Arunhithe Ltd

Monday, July 14, 2003

Contact Richard Martin

Address: PO Box 433, Leek, Staffordshire ST13 7TZ.
Telephone: 01538 304555
Fax: 01538 304575
Email:

Website: www.falco.nl



//
Jim

"Mike" wrote in message

I attended a Community Forum Conference last night which dealt with all
sorts of topics, but primarily aimed at the Communities 'helping
themselves' with the help of others, but you cannot work on your own.
There has to be a set non profit making organisation, with a bank
account, a set of rules or 'constitution' and hold 'regular meetings'
and have an aim and object in mind. You make reference elsewhere of the
'Friends', if you want to see action, go and join them and get them to
do things. Money, or lack of it now, is not a barrier. It does not stop
you from starting and contacting all the various different organisations
which will give money. There 'IS' a budget within your council for such
projects and there will be a person there to help you. Track them down
and talk to them, or get someone in the 'Friends' to get them off their
backside.

At the moment it is our Council who say they have little money to fund this
Park and it is they who want to get a "Friends" group going after we discuss
it in the Focus Group which is already set up after the Community Centre
project. The Friends group does not exist at this time, only us allotment
holders fighting for a new small site within this Park.

Thanks for the info though, I'm sure it will come in handy after our first
meeting when I know more of what the Council propose, how much money they
intend to put in the pot, what they can afford to do, etc.
--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

"Andy wrote in message

That sounds like an ideal candidate for Lottery funding:

http://www.awardsforall.org.uk/

http://www.community-fund.org.uk/

http://www.english-nature.org.uk/about/grant.htm

I've also heard of another scheme for green spaces, but won't have the
details until tomorrow.
--

Thanks Andy, the more options the better as far as I'm concerned. However I
thought real lottery money only went to Opera, to buy paintings, or to
football clubs or perhaps I'm being a bit cynical. :-)
My intention is to have all this information available by our first meeting
so I can have some idea of sources of finance available as I fear the
Council have not got their long term sights on a Park for this land and
won't fund or upkeep it properly so that eventually .......building. :-(

You are right , I am paranoid about our Council, but with good reason, I
know some of their history.
--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

"Andy wrote in message
I've also heard of another scheme for green spaces, but won't have the
details until tomorrow.

...Living Spaces:

http://www.living-spaces.org.uk

Thank's again Andy, I've sent for their information pack.

On another tack, they don't mention allotments as such but do mention open
spaces, I wonder if they would give grants to allotment societies? I'll do
some checking for all you fellow allotment holders out there.

--
Bob

www.pooleygreengrowers.org.uk/ about an Allotment site in
Runnymede fighting for it's existence.

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

"Andy wrote in message
I've also heard of another scheme for green spaces, but won't have the
details until tomorrow.

...Living Spaces:

http://www.living-spaces.org.uk

Thank's again Andy, I've sent for their information pack.

On another tack, they don't mention allotments as such but do mention open
spaces, I wonder if they would give grants to allotment societies? I'll do
some checking for all you fellow allotment holders out there.


"Open Spaces". The 4.2 Acres we are dealing with is defined as 'Open
Space' and we know it cannot be built on for housing development or used
for 'Private Means', that is why the Parish Council bought it to return
it to recreational use, BUT, nowhere can we find, (and people a damn
site cleverer than me are on the Committee), nowhere can we find the
definition of an 'Open Space'

1) Is it an 'Open Space' because it is not built on?
2) because it is open to the public?
3) because it is not locked up?
4) because there are no fences?
5) because anybody and anything can go on it?
6) because it is not 'owned' by anyone?

1) Seems to be the nearest answer
2) Yes
3) This is where we have some doubt
4) No, we have to fence it and secure it against vehicles and for
security purposes whilst we are 'developing' the site.
5) No
6) But it is, it is 'owned' by the people of the Parish.

Coming back to Allotments, they are dealt with by a different statute
and will have to be 'transferred' to 'Open and Recreational Space'

My 2d's worth :-))

Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one
pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside,
thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!

In article , Bob Hobden
writes

"Andy wrote in message
I've also heard of another scheme for green spaces, but won't have the
details until tomorrow.

...Living Spaces:

http://www.living-spaces.org.uk

Thank's again Andy, I've sent for their information pack.

On another tack, they don't mention allotments as such but do mention open
spaces, I wonder if they would give grants to allotment societies? I'll do
some checking for all you fellow allotment holders out there.


"Open Spaces". The 4.2 Acres we are dealing with is defined as 'Open
Space' and we know it cannot be built on for housing development or used
for 'Private Means', that is why the Parish Council bought it to return
it to recreational use, BUT, nowhere can we find, (and people a damn
site cleverer than me are on the Committee), nowhere can we find the
definition of an 'Open Space'

1) Is it an 'Open Space' because it is not built on?
2) because it is open to the public?
3) because it is not locked up?
4) because there are no fences?
5) because anybody and anything can go on it?
6) because it is not 'owned' by anyone?

1) Seems to be the nearest answer
2) Yes
3) This is where we have some doubt
4) No, we have to fence it and secure it against vehicles and for
security purposes whilst we are 'developing' the site.
5) No
6) But it is, it is 'owned' by the people of the Parish.

Coming back to Allotments, they are dealt with by a different statute
and will have to be 'transferred' to 'Open and Recreational Space'

My 2d's worth :-))

Mike
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in one
pretty and well preserved piece, but to skid across the line broadside,
thoroughly used up, worn out, leaking oil, shouting GERONIMO!

Coming back to Allotments, they are dealt with by a different statute
and will have to be 'transferred' to 'Open and Recreational Space'


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, because you are crunchy and
taste good with ketchup.