The message
from Stephen Howard contains these words:



The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

Just as well really, that would really frighten the horses.

Janet

Neil Jones wrote:
I have researched this. In detail by looking through the scientific
literature.
The claim that Ragwort is a human health risk if handled is complete
nonsense.

Good, that's what I thought.


It isn't even particularly toxic to animals. AS I keep saying there is
an example in the scientific literature of a horse being deliberately
fed over 20% of its body weight of dried ragwort and SURVIVING! It is
only the cumulative effects that make it toxic.

Again that's what I've learnt sort of reading between the lines of the
(mild) paranoia about ragwort in the horse world. I am a horse owner
with fields that were once very ragwort infested. We have two horses
living on those fields and they (the fields) are now pretty ragwort
free. However from experience I know the horses don't eat the
ragwort, the risk is more (as many people have said) that the ragwort
gets incorporated into hay and then horses can't avoid it because the
taste is not so obvious to them.

I believe also that ponies in paticular, if they are really hungry,
will start eating ragwort and become so accustomed to the taste that
they almost like it. Animals *do* die from eating ragwort but I don;t
believe that it's a huge number and I do believe that there are
probably exceptional circumstances.

There is also a risk in the long term of course as the the liver
damage suffered is cumulative, it may be pretty unilkely to eat 20% of
ones (horse) body weight of ragwort in a season but it's much less
unlikely over ten or fiteen years for an animal kept in permanently
ragwort infested fields.

--
Chris Green )

Stephen Howard wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 11:11:33 GMT, wrote:

Ron wrote:

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message

Please would you all check your lawns for ragwort, I know it is a time
consuming job but it is a bad year for the nasty weed.

Snip

I trust that you do not use broad band insecticides.

One explanation for the increase in ragwort is most likely the reduction in
the tiger moth population for their caterpillars eat the weed and I've seen

Not tiger moths, it's the Cinnabar moth caterpillars that eat ragwort.

The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

In my Richard South the 'classic' tiger moths are of genus Arctia whereas
the Cinnabar moth is in a genus by itself, Hypocrita. In appearance
it's closer to the Footman moths than the Tiger moths in my opinion.
Also the classic Tiger moth caterpillars are 'wooolly bears' and the
Cinnabar moth caterpillar is nothing like them.

However I will concede that the Cinnabar Moth is quite closely related
to the Tiger Moths.

--
Chris Green )

Stephen Howard wrote in message . ..
On 18 Aug 2003 15:03:30 GMT, wrote:

Stephen Howard wrote:
On 18 Aug 2003 11:11:33 GMT, wrote:

The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

Not in my moth books it isn't! I'll check tonight but I suspect it
may even be in a different family.

Try Arctiidae

Regards,

Arctiiidae is the correct term for the family that incides the
Cinnabar and the
Tiger Moths. I would expect some other members of the family to eat
the plant too. The Garden Tiger almost certainly will.


An awful lot of wildlife uses ragwort. This is a quote from an English
Nature Document

"As a native plant ragwort has been studied for many years by
naturalists. Even way back in 1957 a report concluded that it is eaten
by, or is host to, over 81 species of insects including five "red data
book" and eight "nationally scarce" species. Living on those 81
species there have been a further 25 parasitic insect species
identified. In addition there have been 177 species of insects
observed using ragwort as a nectar source. It has also been observed
as host to the Common Broomrape and 14 species of fungi."

--
Neil Jones- http://www.butterflyguy.com/
"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn
Bog National Nature Reserve

The message
from "The Devil's Advocate"
contains these words:

I will clear mine as soon as I see it as my brother has a horse and I know
how you feel Kate

THE LAW
As ragwort is an injurious weed it is specified in the Weeds Act 1959. The
DEFRA has powers to serve clearance notices but will only do so where
agricultural production is directly affected. On roadside verges and waste
land, local authorities should have be contacted. Difficulties occur on
other types of land in regard to enforcement. The horse owner has a very
clear duty to protect his stock from what can only be described as a
horrible and unnecessary death.

There is now a ragwort-specific herbicide - contact Norfolk Wildlife
Trust, 72 Cathedral Close, Norwich. 01603 625540

They ran a trial on New Buckenham Common, which was overrun by it. Did a
magnificent job, and while there are some plants left, they are dotted
about rather than growing in thickets.

I didn't notice any abundance of cinnebar moths when the Common was
yellow with ragwort.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

I didn't think animals ate it when green anyway. The danger being when
it gets into Hay and they don't notice it.

Loses its foul scent/flavour on drying.

I hope that some ragwort is left for the moths.

Even though we do the verges and our land there is still plenty about.
Just look at the verges of almost any major road...

Where the constant movement of traffic draws the seeds ever-onward.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these words:

Am I right in thinking that if ragwort is found on land belonging to you,
you might be fined for it?

Yes - if you don't remove it when appraised of its presence.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from "Dave Liquorice" contains these words:

It's illegal to allow it to grow on your land. (Most county bylaws
specifically mention ragwort as a notifiable weed.)

But tolerated as it is a native plant and host to several
invertebrates. If it's more than 100m from grazing horses/stock or
land used to produce forage they say leave it. Of course round here we
are surrounded by sheep...

Oxford ragwort is a fairly recent introduction - believed to have been
brought in the ballast of merchantmen, which ballast often comprised
sacks of sand or soil.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from (Simon Avery) contains these words:
"Franz Heymann" wrote:

Hello Franz

FH It's a funny old law if the powers that be can't be bothered
FH to enforce it.

Our country's full of 'em, but then, so are most other countries. The
US has some wonderful state laws dating back a couple of hundred years
that haven't (AFAIK) been repealed, like it being illegal to take a
bath on the Sabbath.

I don't know whether the law has been repealed since, but when I drove a
Hackney carriage I should have taken with me a bale of hay.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from Stephen Howard contains these words:

The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

I thought I saw three tiger moths in chevron recently, but on careful
observation they turned out to be Boeing Stearmans. (Stearmen?)

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:

| DEFRA need to stop contradicting themselves, read that "large" .PDF
| point to a while back. That pretty much states that skin contact
| should be avoided, long sleeves and trousers, gloves etc. Mind you
| that whole document is on the safe side of safe.

Almost certainly the arse covering side of safe! You do not increase
safety by going bananas. I am now seeing that sort of notice on
bags of sharp sand - yes, really, complete with instructions to
wash carefully with soap after any accidental contact.

Now, which is more likely to cause skin irritation - soap or sand?

Drunken louts - avoid eye contact......

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from "Ron" contains these words:

I was told when a nipper in the depths of GLS that the tiger moth was so
called because it's caterpillar was coloured and striped like a tiger.

Greater London (South)?

None of the tiger moths has a stripey caterpillar. Spotty, a bit hairy,
but not stripey.

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

The message
from contains these words:

The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

Not in my moth books it isn't! I'll check tonight but I suspect it
may even be in a different family.

Same family - Arctiidae, but different genus. Or more, depending on
which tiger.....

Cinnebar = Tyria jacobaeae

Tiger (ruby) = Phragmatobia fuliginosa
(wood) = P plantagenis
(Purple) = Rhyparia purpurata
(scarlet) = Callimorpha dominula
(cream-spot) = Arctia villica
(garden) = A caja
(Jersey) = Euplagia quadripunctaria

--
Rusty http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm
horrid·squeak snailything zetnet·co·uk exchange d.p. with p to
reply.

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 18:50:07 +0100, Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from Stephen Howard contains these words:



The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

Just as well really, that would really frighten the horses.

I've been known to scare a few horses myself

http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk/Notes/A_day.htm

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On 18 Aug 2003 21:32:46 GMT, wrote:

The Cinnabar is a Tiger moth.. just not THE Tiger moth.

In my Richard South the 'classic' tiger moths are of genus Arctia whereas
the Cinnabar moth is in a genus by itself, Hypocrita. In appearance
it's closer to the Footman moths than the Tiger moths in my opinion.
Also the classic Tiger moth caterpillars are 'wooolly bears' and the
Cinnabar moth caterpillar is nothing like them.

How old is that book then? Or have they changed all the bloody names
round again!!? They keep doing this with the fungi, you know.

However I will concede that the Cinnabar Moth is quite closely related
to the Tiger Moths.

Does that mean I win?? Drinks are on me!!

Damn, I think I got that wrong...

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
http://www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{who is at}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk