In article ,
ned wrote:
Kate Morgan wrote:
I will clear mine as soon as I see it as my brother has a horse and
I know how you feel Kate

Can I just suggest that more horses die of laminitis (over indulgence
of rich grazing) than ragwort induced liver failure. (Veterinarian's
observation.) Right then, lets all kill off all the grassland.

My guess is that the ragwort problem is at least partially caused by
the change from farmland to yuppieland. It is certainly the cause
of thistle and similar infestations.

Traditionally, most horses were grazed on land that was also grazed
by cattle. Because of the way that the latter eat, they tend to
'improve' pasture by reducing the tall weed plants. Of course,
once the pasture has got out of control, they will not eat clumps
of them and mowing or similar is needed.

Horses and sheep tend to avoid such weeds, and so allow them to
build up. The inefficient digestive system of horses also allows
weed seeds to be spread by their dung, which is probably irrelevant
to ragwort. This is why the traditional farming viewpoint is that
horses are bad for pasture.

The yuppie aspect is even worse than traditional horse grazing, in
that some of it has the horse at pasture for only some of the year,
thus allowing the weeds to grow during that time even if they would
have been eaten when young. Once they are above a certain size, they
are avoided.

I can't say for certain that the above is true for ragwort as well
as thistles and docks, but my observation of its growth patterns
indicates that it may be.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message ...
"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
...

Please would you all check your lawns for ragwort, I know it is a time

I hope that some ragwort is left for the moths.

Ron

No Ron, I will remove every bit of ragwort that I can. Risk killing my
pony, I dont think so.

Am I right in thinking that if ragwort is found on land belonging to you,
you might be fined for it?

Franz

No. This is a common myth. You can be ordered to congtrol ragwort on
agricultural land only. You do not have to do anythign unless ordered
and there is not even any legal compunction on anyone to order you to
do so.

--
Neil Jones- http://www.butterflyguy.com/
"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn
Bog National Nature Reserve

(Simon Avery) wrote in message ...
"Ron" wrote:

Hello Ron

R I trust that you do not use broad band insecticides.

We don't, yet it continues to flourish everywhere. Clear a field one
year either digging or catching early with spot-on, it's back the
next.

R One explanation for the increase in ragwort is most likely
R the reduction in the tiger moth population for their
R caterpillars eat the weed and I've seen a patch of ragwort
R plants stripped of their foliage in less than a day.
R No grazing animal would think of eating it then for the
R smell of the caterpillars' faeces would put them off!.

Actually, horses and cattle won't usually eat it while it's still
alive. It's when it's dead, or baled that it becomes a killer. Having
had several horses die from it, and some who are dying of it (I work
for an equine charity) I loathe it more than most. It's also poisonous
to humans, if you pick or handle it without gloves, it'll get into
your system (after causing burns on sensitive skins) and leads to
progressive liver failure.

This is not a plant you want to allow to grow.

Sadly there's a lot of ignorance about it, I've even been harangued by
a rambler when culling it that "It's illegal to pick wild flowers you
know!"

R I hope that some ragwort is left for the moths.

It's illegal to allow it to grow on your land. (Most county bylaws
specifically mention ragwort as a notifiable weed.)

This is incorrect it is NOT illegal to allow ragwort to grow on your land.
--
Neil Jones- http://www.butterflyguy.com/
"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn
Bog National Nature Reserve

Ron wrote:

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message

Please would you all check your lawns for ragwort, I know it is a time
consuming job but it is a bad year for the nasty weed.

Snip

I trust that you do not use broad band insecticides.

One explanation for the increase in ragwort is most likely the reduction in
the tiger moth population for their caterpillars eat the weed and I've seen
a patch of ragwort plants stripped of their foliage in less than a day. No
grazing animal would think of eating it then for the smell of the
caterpillars' faeces would put them off!.

I hope that some ragwort is left for the moths.

Also remembering that there are several different spp of ragwort, one of
which (fen ragwort) is so rare it was one of the first spp selected for
the Species Recovery Programme.

[mind the wrap]
http://www.english-nature.org.uk/tex...fen_ragwort.as
p


regards
sarah



re

--
Think of it as evolution in action.

"Franz Heymann" wrote:

Hello Franz

FH It's a funny old law if the powers that be can't be bothered
FH to enforce it.

Our country's full of 'em, but then, so are most other countries. The
US has some wonderful state laws dating back a couple of hundred years
that haven't (AFAIK) been repealed, like it being illegal to take a
bath on the Sabbath.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/

(Neil Jones) wrote:

Hello Neil

NJ This is incorrect it is NOT illegal to allow ragwort to grow
NJ on your land.

Semantics, really, but according to;

http://www.defra.gov.uk/corporate/re...act/weed2a.pdf

You are technically correct, but if you fail to comply with an order
from Defra to remove Ragwort from your land, you *are* guilty of an
offence.

"If an occupier has unreasonably failed to comply with the notice, he
or she shall be guilty of an offence and, on conviction, liable to a
fine."

You don't /usually/ get fined for doing things that are legal, so to
all intents and purposes, it is illegal to let ragwort grow on your
field once you've been issued with an order to act. So in effect, it's
both legal and illegal - which is a fine example of why we have so
many lawyers in this country.

Also note that a local council may have a bylaw that /does/ make it
illegal to allow it to grow under any circumstances.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/

Kate Morgan wrote:
I will clear mine as soon as I see it as my brother has a horse
and
I know how you feel Kate


Many thanks for that :-)
kate

Can I just suggest that more horses die of laminitis (over
indulgence
of rich grazing) than ragwort induced liver failure.
(Veterinarian's
observation.) Right then, lets all kill off all the grassland.

Yes that is right but there are not many peeps on this group who
will
know what Laminitis is but most will know ragwort.
snip

'Not sure I follow that argument but by the same reasoning,
'.... not many peeps on this group' will recognise ragwort induced
liver failure but most will recognise grass. ;-)

It is certainly the responsibility of horse owners to ensure that
THEIR grazing is ragwort free and that their bought in hay comes from
a reputable, trustworthy source. It is not the responsibility of the
entire nation to reduce the biodiversity of the country just so that a
minority section of the populace can sleep easier in their beds.
How many child deaths occur from the consumption of poisonous
berries? Yet do we see campaigns to eradicate deadly nightshade,
foxglove, laburnam, ivy, etc., etc.
Let's just keep the problem in perspective.

--
ned

".......... Am I right in thinking that if ragwort is found on land
belonging to you, you might be fined for it?

In theory, that's possible. It differs depending on your local council and
their policy on nuisance weeds. ......"


I am reminded of the words "Physician heal thy self"

Most councils are the worst offenders when it comes to Ragwort, though they
would probably blame the Highways agency.
More Ragwort along roads and motorways than anywhere.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

In article , Franz Heymann notfranz.
writes

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message
t...

Please would you all check your lawns for ragwort, I know it is a time

I hope that some ragwort is left for the moths.

Ron

No Ron, I will remove every bit of ragwort that I can. Risk killing my
pony, I dont think so.

Am I right in thinking that if ragwort is found on land belonging to you,
you might be fined for it?

No.

But if you allow it to spread on to someone else's land, then DEFRA can
take action against you.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Simon Avery
writes

It's illegal to allow it to grow on your land.

Are you sure of that? Can you refer me to the Act which covers that,
since I've not been able to find it?

(Most county bylaws
specifically mention ragwort as a notifiable weed.)

Notifiable to who?

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

In article , Simon Avery
writes
It's illegal to allow it to grow on your land.

In which case most councils can be sued!!!!!!!!
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason,
put jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see deadspam.com

On Mon, 18 Aug 2003 08:08:59 +0100, Jane Ransom
wrote:

In article , Simon Avery
writes
It's illegal to allow it to grow on your land.

In which case most councils can be sued!!!!!!!!

By who? The council?
--
Martin

Ron wrote:

"Kate Morgan" wrote in message

Please would you all check your lawns for ragwort, I know it is a time
consuming job but it is a bad year for the nasty weed.

Snip

I trust that you do not use broad band insecticides.

One explanation for the increase in ragwort is most likely the reduction in
the tiger moth population for their caterpillars eat the weed and I've seen

Not tiger moths, it's the Cinnabar moth caterpillars that eat ragwort.

a patch of ragwort plants stripped of their foliage in less than a day. No
grazing animal would think of eating it then for the smell of the
caterpillars' faeces would put them off!.

I hope that some ragwort is left for the moths.


--
Chris Green )

Simon Avery wrote:
for an equine charity) I loathe it more than most. It's also poisonous
to humans, if you pick or handle it without gloves, it'll get into
your system (after causing burns on sensitive skins) and leads to
progressive liver failure.

Do you have evidence for this as when we enquired of DEFRA about it
they said that as far as they knew it was harmless to touch and pull
it. I'm pretty sure it has to be ingested to do harm.

--
Chris Green )

Nick Maclaren wrote:
In article ,
ned wrote:
Kate Morgan wrote:
I will clear mine as soon as I see it as my brother has a horse and
I know how you feel Kate

Can I just suggest that more horses die of laminitis (over indulgence
of rich grazing) than ragwort induced liver failure. (Veterinarian's
observation.) Right then, lets all kill off all the grassland.

My guess is that the ragwort problem is at least partially caused by
the change from farmland to yuppieland. It is certainly the cause
of thistle and similar infestations.

Traditionally, most horses were grazed on land that was also grazed
by cattle. Because of the way that the latter eat, they tend to
'improve' pasture by reducing the tall weed plants. Of course,
once the pasture has got out of control, they will not eat clumps
of them and mowing or similar is needed.

Horses and sheep tend to avoid such weeds, and so allow them to
build up. The inefficient digestive system of horses also allows
weed seeds to be spread by their dung, which is probably irrelevant
to ragwort. This is why the traditional farming viewpoint is that
horses are bad for pasture.

The yuppie aspect is even worse than traditional horse grazing, in
that some of it has the horse at pasture for only some of the year,
thus allowing the weeds to grow during that time even if they would
have been eaten when young. Once they are above a certain size, they
are avoided.

I can't say for certain that the above is true for ragwort as well
as thistles and docks, but my observation of its growth patterns
indicates that it may be.

I think you are basically right. We have seven acres of land on which
we keep two horses. It's fairly poor (sandy) land so although there
is ample space and grass for two horses it's not excessive.

With *only* the horses grazing if we didn't manage the land as well it
would soon end up as a ragwort infested wilderness (which is a bit
like it was when we first took over).

The best way to keep ragwort at bay is to ensure a good dense sward of
other meadow plants once you've eliminated the worst of the ragwort.
Our orchard (where the horses don't graze) has a good cover of grass
which we mow a few times a year, it has virtually no ragwort. The
horse grazed areas get much more ragwort appearing on them simply
because they do get grazed down very short in places. We need to keep
on top of the ragwort and mow occasionally to keep it all in reasonable
trim.

--
Chris Green )