"Jaques d'Altrades" wrote in message
Im not a MS fan at all, but XP is rock solid compared to anything else
they've ever released. Any other opinion on this matter is based on
singular (and therefore irrelevant) "bad" experiences.

Sounds like the confidence (and arrogance) of youth, to me.


'Fraid not old boy. It is confidence though - of an experienced IT
professional who's been getting his hands dirty since 1983. Believe me, I
do know what I'm talking about in these matters, it's not a hobby. I've
worked for many big names and always (somehow) in mixed environments, so
it's very easy for me to make comparisons between MS and UNIX/Linux and
between currents systems and older on all varieties of old and new hardware.

If you can say the same, you'll be the first person I've ever met with any
actual experience to hold that opinion despite your record. If you can't,
and you're just an armchair IT "pro", then please accept the wisdom of those
who know better than you.



a

In message , al
writes
"Jaques d'Altrades" wrote in message
Al wrote,

Im not a MS fan at all, but XP is rock solid compared to anything else
they've ever released. Any other opinion on this matter is based on
singular (and therefore irrelevant) "bad" experiences.

Sounds like the confidence (and arrogance) of youth, to me.

'Fraid not old boy. It is confidence though - of an experienced IT
professional who's been getting his hands dirty since 1983. Believe me, I
do know what I'm talking about in these matters, it's not a hobby. I've
worked for many big names and always (somehow) in mixed environments, so
it's very easy for me to make comparisons between MS and UNIX/Linux and
between currents systems and older on all varieties of old and new hardware.

If you can say the same, you'll be the first person I've ever met with any
actual experience to hold that opinion despite your record. If you can't,
and you're just an armchair IT "pro", then please accept the wisdom of those
who know better than you.

So, let's get this straight. Anybody's singular experience is
irrelevant. But Al's experience is not irrelevant because he "knows what
he's talking about", and he "know[s] better than you".

That's all right then.


PS, I still remember the kit I was working on in 1983 and have a front
panel decal to remind me.

--
dave @ stejonda

"dave @ stejonda" wrote in message
So, let's get this straight. Anybody's singular experience is
irrelevant. But Al's experience is not irrelevant because he "knows what
he's talking about", and he "know[s] better than you".

That's all right then.


You know that's not what I meant. By singular I meant in terms of amount of
PCs as a "testbed" to form an opinion .... ie. a person with one PC that XP
won't work on doesn't really represent much in the scheme of things. Other
people out there like me with substantial experience on 1000's of machines
with various OS's will on the other hand have a much more valid opinion of
what is stable/good or not.

My opinion based on this is that XP is the best out there, Linux aside.
However, putting XP on an old machine may cause you problems if it doesn't
like the hardware (this PC I'm using is 5 years old and runs it like a dream
though!). It's not fair to tar it as crap just because it won't work on
older hardware.


PS, I still remember the kit I was working on in 1983 and have a front
panel decal to remind me.


Yes, those were the days ... buffer overruns weren't really an issue then!!
I still have my trusty BBC Model B with an extra 32k shadow RAM and a floppy
disk drive! All my best software's on tape though ... takes a bit of
patience to load it up ...



a

The message
from "al" contains these words:

Which is fine, you've got rid of a lot of the low hanging fruit. However
many of the recent vulnerabilities are in Windows components, not the
internet applications. You would never know if someone compromised your
machine (ie. not a script or a worm) and hid their tracks. You make this
extremely easy by not bothering to update your software.

Send me a virus, worm or trojan, and I'd know. With my mail/news reader
I can open any item without running the attachment, and if there is one,
it's signalled. Then I'd have to decode it and go to the directory into
which it has been placed, and run it.

How would I contract it? Certainly not through mail or news, and I
rarely bother with the www. If and when I do I'll think about AV and
firewall.

Seven years without trouble speaks for itself. And yes, I know what a
trojan looks like, having examined one in a text editor.

--
Frère Jaques
They knocked the Bell down and erected a charade of pops.

The message
from "al" contains these words:
"Jaques d'Altrades" wrote in message

Im not a MS fan at all, but XP is rock solid compared to anything else
they've ever released. Any other opinion on this matter is based on
singular (and therefore irrelevant) "bad" experiences.

Sounds like the confidence (and arrogance) of youth, to me.


'Fraid not old boy. It is confidence though - of an experienced IT
professional who's been getting his hands dirty since 1983. Believe me, I
do know what I'm talking about in these matters, it's not a hobby. I've
worked for many big names and always (somehow) in mixed environments, so
it's very easy for me to make comparisons between MS and UNIX/Linux and
between currents systems and older on all varieties of old and new hardware.

I've a laptop running DOS 6.22/Win 3.11, PCs running Win 98, Win 2000,
OS2, Mandrake, Debian and a couple of Amstrads with CP/M - oh, and the
old Speccy ZX. And many years ago I guddled amongst a mainframe.
Whatever happened to COBOL?

If you can say the same, you'll be the first person I've ever met with any
actual experience to hold that opinion despite your record. If you can't,
and you're just an armchair IT "pro", then please accept the wisdom of those
who know better than you.

I don't profess to be a 'pro' - I've always used a computer as a tool,
but I do have a grasp of the important bits. (oo-er missus!)

--
Frère Jaques
They knocked the Bell down and erected a charade of pops.

The message
from "al" contains these words:

You know that's not what I meant. By singular I meant in terms of amount of
PCs as a "testbed" to form an opinion .... ie. a person with one PC that XP
won't work on doesn't really represent much in the scheme of things. Other
people out there like me with substantial experience on 1000's of machines
with various OS's will on the other hand have a much more valid opinion of
what is stable/good or not.

Hmmm. I have three full towers, all with caddies. Between the three of
them I can run Win 3.11, Win 98, Win 2000, OS2, Mandrake, Debian, FT,
and using an emulator, CP/M. Red Hat and SuSE have been dumped.

I have been beta-testing our ISP's software for years and I was going to
alpha-test PetrOS but found myself lacking suitable accommodation. Now I
have my own house I can spread a bit. Haven't heard anything about
PetrOS recently - must ask Peter Tattam what's happening.

I have a midi tower (ATM) used exclusively for writing CDs and three
PCWs running CP/M and CP/M plus. The rubber bands in the 3" drives of
two of them have broken/stuck and I CBA to fix them for the time being.
The Speccy was used for amateur radio programs. I did have a wee
AppleMac but I gave it to a collector.

My opinion based on this is that XP is the best out there, Linux aside.

Ah.

However, putting XP on an old machine may cause you problems if it doesn't
like the hardware (this PC I'm using is 5 years old and runs it like a dream
though!). It's not fair to tar it as crap just because it won't work on
older hardware.

I never did tar it at all. I have no experience of it. What I have keeps
me busy enough, and (ATM) does everything I want it to.


PS, I still remember the kit I was working on in 1983 and have a front
panel decal to remind me.


Yes, those were the days ... buffer overruns weren't really an issue then!!

But in even earlier days bugs were a problem when they walked over and
shorted the HT bus.......

I still have my trusty BBC Model B with an extra 32k shadow RAM and a floppy
disk drive! All my best software's on tape though ... takes a bit of
patience to load it up ...

Never had a BBC, but I know where there's one on offer....

--
Frère Jaques
They knocked the Bell down and erected a charade of pops.

"Jaques d'Altrades" wrote in message
Send me a virus, worm or trojan, and I'd know. With my mail/news reader
I can open any item without running the attachment, and if there is one,
it's signalled. Then I'd have to decode it and go to the directory into
which it has been placed, and run it.

How would I contract it? Certainly not through mail or news, and I
rarely bother with the www. If and when I do I'll think about AV and
firewall.

Well to take a recent example - the Blaster worm. That would have infected
you as soon as you connected to the internet if you weren't blocking NetBIOS
(or you're lucky enough to have it blocked by your ISP). Nothing to do with
email, news, etc. or any kind of user interaction.

Seven years without trouble speaks for itself. And yes, I know what a
trojan looks like, having examined one in a text editor.

Seven years is just pure luck - assuming of course you'd actually know you'd
been compromised (you run a netstat recently to see what open ports you
have?) Again what you're talking about points to virii, not worms. Sure,
someone can send you a trojan and if you're silly enough to open it (which
it sounds like you're not) then you're "infected". However how would you
know if someone put one there by exploiting a remote vulnerability? You
wouldn't.

As for opening a trojan in a text editor ... !?!? What are you saying, you
decompiled one? Smart trojans add code to existing binaries to hide
themselves. Others load themselves as executables that sound like official
processes. Not aware of too many ASCII based script trojans ....



a

On Sat, 13 Sep 2003 14:37:14 +0100, "al"
wrote:

Yes, those were the days ... buffer overruns weren't really an issue then!!
I still have my trusty BBC Model B with an extra 32k shadow RAM and a floppy
disk drive! All my best software's on tape though ... takes a bit of
patience to load it up ...

But going by recent stories in the news, your tapes will still be
readable when everyone else's backup CDs are only good to scare the
birds off their vegetable patches.
--
Stuart Baldwin
news\at/boxatrix\dot/co\dot/uk

The message
from "al" contains these words:

Seven years is just pure luck - assuming of course you'd actually know you'd
been compromised (you run a netstat recently to see what open ports you
have?) Again what you're talking about points to virii, not worms. Sure,
someone can send you a trojan and if you're silly enough to open it (which
it sounds like you're not) then you're "infected". However how would you
know if someone put one there by exploiting a remote vulnerability? You
wouldn't.

Well, I would because I have a program installed on the box I use for
internet which would alert me. Can't unforget what it's called.

As for opening a trojan in a text editor ... !?!? What are you saying, you
decompiled one? Smart trojans add code to existing binaries to hide
themselves. Others load themselves as executables that sound like official
processes. Not aware of too many ASCII based script trojans ....

No. I said 'examined'. SoI would recognise the structure.

In any case, it was years ago, before most ISPs were stripping binaries
from newsgroups. I found it there, downloaded it, and because I was
running Win 3.11 at the time I knew it was totally in my power, and
completely unable to bite me.

--
Frère Jaques
They knocked the Bell down and erected a charade of pops.

wrote in message
...
But going by recent stories in the news, your tapes will still be
readable when everyone else's backup CDs are only good to scare the
birds off their vegetable patches.
--
Stuart Baldwin

It is true ... they still work! Made things to work back then and the
tolerances for reading the data off the tape were obviously good enough to
withstand 20 years of degradation!




a

"Jaques d'Altrades" wrote in message
Well, I would because I have a program installed on the box I use for
internet which would alert me. Can't unforget what it's called.

Ahh ... ZoneAlarm perhaps or BlackIce? In that case you're more careful
than you let on. Still though, I cannot condone for any reason leaving a
Windows box unpatched. It's just asking for trouble. Standard practice is
defence in depth. That means covering all avenues of attack. Personal
firewall and anti-virus software are fine if kept up to date *most of the
time*. There are however many ways of disabling both of them depending on
the underlying OS's configuration.

No. I said 'examined'. SoI would recognise the structure.

In any case, it was years ago, before most ISPs were stripping binaries
from newsgroups. I found it there, downloaded it, and because I was
running Win 3.11 at the time I knew it was totally in my power, and
completely unable to bite me.


If the dog is big enough it can always bite .... :P



a

The message
from "al" contains these words:
wrote in message
...

But going by recent stories in the news, your tapes will still be
readable when everyone else's backup CDs are only good to scare the
birds off their vegetable patches.
--
Stuart Baldwin

It is true ... they still work! Made things to work back then and the
tolerances for reading the data off the tape were obviously good enough to
withstand 20 years of degradation!

But, remember to run them through every so often, as you can get
print-through, especially on long-play tapes.

--
Rusty Hinge
No m'lud, it wasn't a sneg. My joints creak.

The message
from "al" contains these words:
"Jaques d'Altrades" wrote in message
Well, I would because I have a program installed on the box I use for
internet which would alert me. Can't unforget what it's called.

Ahh ... ZoneAlarm perhaps or BlackIce? In that case you're more careful
than you let on. Still though, I cannot condone for any reason leaving a
Windows box unpatched. It's just asking for trouble. Standard practice is
defence in depth. That means covering all avenues of attack. Personal
firewall and anti-virus software are fine if kept up to date *most of the
time*. There are however many ways of disabling both of them depending on
the underlying OS's configuration.

No. Using the three-fingered salute I can report that it shows as
pmxdetect. It's mainly aimed at spyware and anything which starts itself
up anasked.

No. I said 'examined'. SoI would recognise the structure.

In any case, it was years ago, before most ISPs were stripping binaries
from newsgroups. I found it there, downloaded it, and because I was
running Win 3.11 at the time I knew it was totally in my power, and
completely unable to bite me.


If the dog is big enough it can always bite .... :P

Nah - needed a 32-bit environment innit.

--
Rusty Hinge
No m'lud, it wasn't a sneg. My joints creak.

"martin" wrote in message ...
Somebody had trouble installing Linux on Dell PCs at work, but in the
end he succeeded.
--
Martin

I'm trying Linux atm (RH9) Running on it's own HD with XP on another drive in the same box. It's a real culture
shock going back to command lines for configuring the system and trying to find my way around the machine.
Otherwise most things installed OK and work OK apart from the onboard sound and the Winmodem - now replaced by a
real modem. The configuration and system management will need to be made much more intuitive before Linux causes Mr
Gates to have any sleepless nights. Though £18.00 for the OS and some very good office and network software +
security +tweakability + no limit to the number of machines you can put it on and the Open Source aspect is already
tempting to some. As a Windows user who only knows how to push buttons it's a very steep learning curve.
Rod