"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

[snip]

It is relatively safe. Nothing in the world is completely safe. Even
digging weeds out you could cut yourself and then die of blood
poisoning, tetanus or anthrax.

I know of a man who died from playing chess. He leaned over backwards
after
a move, the chair toppled and he broke his neck.


Did he have to forfeit the game?

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

[snip]

It is relatively safe. Nothing in the world is completely safe. Even
digging weeds out you could cut yourself and then die of blood
poisoning, tetanus or anthrax.

I know of a man who died from playing chess. He leaned over backwards
after
a move, the chair toppled and he broke his neck.


Did he have to forfeit the game?

--
Tumbleweed

Remove theobvious before replying (but no email reply necessary to
newsgroups)

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message
. ..

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Martin Brown" wrote in message
...

[snip]

It is relatively safe. Nothing in the world is completely safe. Even
digging weeds out you could cut yourself and then die of blood
poisoning, tetanus or anthrax.

I know of a man who died from playing chess. He leaned over backwards
after
a move, the chair toppled and he broke his neck.


Did he have to forfeit the game?

He didn't say.

Franz

"Tumbleweed" wrote in message ...

{BIG SNIP}



**Quote**

What are the Health Effects?
Short-term: EPA has found glyphosate to potentially cause the
following health effects when people are exposed to it at levels above
the MCL for relatively short periods of time: congestion of the lungs;
increased breathing rate.

Long-term: Glyphosate has the potential to cause the following effects
from a lifetime exposure at levels above the MCL: kidney damage,
reproductive effects.

**End Quote**

Now I am sure that none of you people intend to bath daily in a
mixture containing 50% Glyphosate, but the assertion that it is safe
is clearly not proven.

{little snip}

Those findings could apply to just about any chemical you name, including
most of the ones found in plants (of which there are thousands). Plants are
full of natural 'organic' pesticides and hormone mimics which evolved to
kill and damage grazers, from insects to mammals. The same comments about
safety would apply to these chemicals, only more so, since they are much
more carcinogenic than many man made pesticides, as an example lettuce and
coffee being particularily bad, far far worse than glyphosphate.
Unsurprising since the man made ones were tested and the really dangerous
ones removed during that process, whilst the organic ones evolved without
concern for that, indeed the very opposite applied.
Tests of the chemicals in plants show that 50% would be banned were they to
follow the same standards as for their artificial equivalents. Lettuce would
certainly be removed from sale immediately.


Tumbleweed
Could you do some [snipping] of your posts, as afeter about 100 lines
my newsreader tuncates and as the responses are at the bottom I loose
the most important bit.

Where did you choose your monica from? I am sure you're aware that it
is also the name of a commecially sold Glyphosate based weed killing
product.

And lastly I do not get the point you are making. Are you saying that
because 'bad things' are found to exist in the natural environment
then its OK to apply more 'bad things', so long as the ones we apply
are not as bad as the natural ones. It certainly read that way.

We could of course agree to disagree. I will continue to question the
need for people to use these products, and you are at perfect liberty
to mention then and apply them as and when you see fit.

Phil

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Philip" wrote in message
...
In a previous thread (Docks around and young apple tree) it was stated
that
Roundup was safe to use for a number of reasons. But basically the
feeling
was "its been around for a long time and nothing has been proven yet".

Well here is a recent report showing that Roundup cannot be considered
totally safe.

http://www.newfarm.org/news/0803/082903/gm_fungus.shtml

If that is the totality of the negative results which have been published
in
the couple of decades of intensive anti-glyphosate research, then my
belief
in the efficacy and safety of glyphosate has now been strengthened
immeasurably.
Thank you for this URL.

Franz



Franz I could almost see the tongue in your cheek there. I doubt if that
was the only piece of information published about the effects of glyphosate.
However I am sure your search engine works as well as mine, and would not
want to spoil the enjoyment you will get retrieving all those pages of
misleading information.

"Philip" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Philip" wrote in message
...
In a previous thread (Docks around and young apple tree) it was stated
that
Roundup was safe to use for a number of reasons. But basically the
feeling
was "its been around for a long time and nothing has been proven yet".

Well here is a recent report showing that Roundup cannot be considered
totally safe.

http://www.newfarm.org/news/0803/082903/gm_fungus.shtml

If that is the totality of the negative results which have been
published
in
the couple of decades of intensive anti-glyphosate research, then my
belief
in the efficacy and safety of glyphosate has now been strengthened
immeasurably.
Thank you for this URL.

Franz



Franz I could almost see the tongue in your cheek there. I doubt if that
was the only piece of information published about the effects of
glyphosate.
However I am sure your search engine works as well as mine, and would not
want to spoil the enjoyment you will get retrieving all those pages of
misleading information.

If you had had better evidence, you would have posted it.
You failed to do so.

Franz

Martin Brown wrote in message ...

I am no fan of Monsanto, but glyphosate is as close to an
enviro-friendly weedkiller as we are ever likely to get.

Well that is your opinion. Are you right? Well the only means I have
of determining it is to see if you understand to subject well enough
for me to know if what you are saying is valid.


It is extremely
specific to green plants that are conducting photosynthesis.

In this instance you are not right at all. Glyphosate or
N-phosphonomethylglycine does not have a direct effect on
photosynthesis and also affects other non-photosynthetic organisms.

N-phosphonomethylglycine works by blocking the action of an anzyme
called

5-enolpyruvylshikimate-3-phosphate synthase which catalyses an
imporant step in the production of Amino Acids.

This metabolic pathway is NOT exclusive to photosythetic organisms and
occurs in a wide range of other creatures. For example it does occur
in the bug that causes malaria.


I certainly cannot judge the validity of whether Glyphosate is safe or
not on what you are saying.

Use some
own brand glyphosate containing weedkiller and not Roundup though unless
you really want to actively support Monsanto and its GM hegemony.

Regards,

If you believe that Monsanto is as bad as you say. Then why are you
encouraging people to buy a produce which most people will get from
them since they are the major producers.

--
Neil Jones- http://www.butterflyguy.com/
"At some point I had to stand up and be counted. Who speaks for the
butterflies?" Andrew Lees - The quotation on his memorial at Crymlyn
Bog National Nature Reserve