"martin" wrote in message
news
On 02 Dec 2003 09:00:03 GMT, (BridgeP) wrote:


I was taught that it is 'fogs up'. This is in the text books. It allows
more
mortar/brick. 'Frogs down' is the economy method - les mortar.

What's a frog in this context?
The indentation moulded into one face of a brick is known as the frog. I
have no idea why.

Franz

"martin" wrote in message
...
On 2 Dec 2003 10:08:52 GMT, (Nick Maclaren) wrote:


duh! I always thought that the profile of the top and bottom of a
brick were the same.

No. Not on a proper brick-shaped brick.

Franz

(Nick Maclaren) wrote:

Hello Nick

[Brick Walls]

uk.d-i-y is the "better place" for this kind of thing, but
the reason it seems complicated is because it can be -
especially if you plan on building walls above a certain
height; they need buttressing and reinforcement at specific
places to make sure they don't fall over and squash
someone.

NM No, it's not complicated - that's not the same as needing to
NM be got right.

Maybe complicated is the wrong word, but building a high wall in brick
is a LOT more, well, complicated than simply putting one brick on top
of another until you're done.

No, I think complicated is what I meant, and that maybe you meant
difficult. It's not /difficult/ per se to build a, say, 8' wall (I've
done several), but it's not as simple as it looks. You need to factor
the right amount and strength of foundation, insert reinforcing at the
correct distance and not only buttress, but provide expansion/fall
gaps. And that's without going into the retaining side.

At least - that's how you're /supposed/ to do it, according to regs.
If it does fall over and squash somebody, you're backside is going to
be mighty popular if you didn't follow the exact regulations laid down
at the time of building.

Lot more complicated than it used to be, but that's the price of a
litigation led society. OTOH, it theoretically leads to fewer
squashees.

--
Simon Avery, Dartmoor, UK Ý http://www.digdilem.org/

The message
from (BridgeP) contains these words:

Oops! Got a bit ahead of myself there! Old Bob taught me properly, using
matured lime mortar and having the frogs in the bricks on the underside
so water doesn't seep into them and freeze during the winter. Nowadays,
because it's easier and quicker, brickies tend to lay courses with the
frogs upwards. "Oh, that's all right as long as you point them
well....." Pah!

I was taught that it is 'fogs up'. This is in the text books. It
allows more
mortar/brick. 'Frogs down' is the economy method - les mortar.

Nope. You fill the frog with mortar and place a dollop on one end and
lay it, press it into place and trim off extruded excess. Frogs are full
of mortar and can't fill up with water in the case of a broken or poor
bit of pointing.

Modern methods may say frog up. The frog down philosophy was taught me
by a man in his nineties, in the 1950s, but when I lay bricks (which is
seldom) I always lay them that way, and I've never known of any trouble
with what I've put up.

Oh, and the only reason Old Bob wasn't a brickie then was because at his
age he wasn't fast enough, but the firm (Masterbuilder and family) kept
him on, working at his own pace. He was a time-served bricklayer by
trade.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these words:

What's a frog in this context?
The indentation moulded into one face of a brick is known as the frog. I
have no idea why.

Probably from a similar-shaped indentation under a horse's hoof.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

In article , Jaques d'Alltrades writes:
| The message
| from "Franz Heymann" contains these words:
|
| What's a frog in this context?
| The indentation moulded into one face of a brick is known as the frog. I
| have no idea why.
|
| Probably from a similar-shaped indentation under a horse's hoof.

Which is not what the OED says. I agree with you, and think that
the OED is wrong.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article , Janet Baraclough
writes

Jane Lumley wrote:

JL Thing is, said acre is currently rather exposed to wind and
JL traffic noise,

I replied

Is this industrial traffic (might be quieter at weekends)? Sports or
tourist-attraction traffic, could be worse at weekends? You're seeing it
in winter; is it likely to be quieter now than in summer? Visit the area
during rush hours. Do people chug past in a slow tail of traffic at 30
mph, or race past at 70? Can you get in and out of the gate safely at
busy times? Is the traffic mostly cars, or huge reverberating trucks?
Shut yourself in the bedrooms, listen to the noise, and ask yourself if
you'll be able to sleep with a window open.

But where, exactly, can I find a village house with no traffic noise in
the southeast? Frankly, it's unrealistic, or it is with my budget. (snip

First, you have not previously informed us of your geographical search
area, village location requirements or budget. You can't REALISTICALLY
expect replies tailored to what you haven't mentioned.

Second, you raised the issue of noise. I did not suggest you find a
house with "no traffic noise"; only that you very carefully evaluate the
nature and level of traffic noise at your "find" (which only yesterday
was sufficiently concerning that you were wondering how to reduce it).

I learn from experience. Consequently I shan't waste any more of my
time offering advice to you.

I'm sorry you felt hurt - I really didn't mean to be rude. I do
appreciate your advice, and I'm grateful that you took time to write.
It truly wasn't a waste of time - I'm awed by the kindness of people on
Usenet, always.
--
Jane Lumley

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes:
| The message
| from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:
|
| What's a frog in this context?
| The indentation moulded into one face of a brick is known as the
frog. I
| have no idea why.
|
| Probably from a similar-shaped indentation under a horse's hoof.

Which is not what the OED says. I agree with you, and think that
the OED is wrong.

I went right off the OED when it started including ephemeral words -
sort of M$ philosophy - built-in obsolibrance.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

I learn from experience. Consequently I shan't waste any more of my
time offering advice to you.

I'm sorry you felt hurt - I really didn't mean to be rude. I do
appreciate your advice, and I'm grateful that you took time to write.
It truly wasn't a waste of time - I'm awed by the kindness of people on
Usenet, always.

Janet's probably a bit windswept ATM - weather-wise, of course..

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes:
| The message
| from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:
|
| What's a frog in this context?
| The indentation moulded into one face of a brick is known as the
frog. I
| have no idea why.
|
| Probably from a similar-shaped indentation under a horse's hoof.

Which is not what the OED says. I agree with you, and think that
the OED is wrong.

I went right off the OED when it started including ephemeral words -
sort of M$ philosophy - built-in obsolibrance.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

I learn from experience. Consequently I shan't waste any more of my
time offering advice to you.

I'm sorry you felt hurt - I really didn't mean to be rude. I do
appreciate your advice, and I'm grateful that you took time to write.
It truly wasn't a waste of time - I'm awed by the kindness of people on
Usenet, always.

Janet's probably a bit windswept ATM - weather-wise, of course..

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

The message
from (Nick Maclaren) contains these words:
In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes:
| The message
| from "Franz Heymann" contains
these words:
|
| What's a frog in this context?
| The indentation moulded into one face of a brick is known as the
frog. I
| have no idea why.
|
| Probably from a similar-shaped indentation under a horse's hoof.

Which is not what the OED says. I agree with you, and think that
the OED is wrong.

I went right off the OED when it started including ephemeral words -
sort of M$ philosophy - built-in obsolibrance.

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

The message
from Jane Lumley contains these words:

I learn from experience. Consequently I shan't waste any more of my
time offering advice to you.

I'm sorry you felt hurt - I really didn't mean to be rude. I do
appreciate your advice, and I'm grateful that you took time to write.
It truly wasn't a waste of time - I'm awed by the kindness of people on
Usenet, always.

Janet's probably a bit windswept ATM - weather-wise, of course..

--
Rusty Hinge http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/tqt.htm

Dark thoughts about the Wumpus concerto played with piano,
iron bar and two sledge hammers. (Wumpus, 15/11/03)

Subject: Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
From: (Nick Maclaren)
Date: 2 Dec 2003 11:58:09 GMT


In article ,
martin writes:
|
| duh! I always thought that the profile of the top and bottom of a
| brick were the same.

With older bricks, that is usually the case. About 150 years
back (I think), bricks started to be made with a frog. Modern
(ordinary) bricks almost always are.

Sorry, but have to disagree. Many newer types of brick don't have frogs at
all. They simply have holes. Threfore, Frogs up or down isn't an issue.

Peter Bridge

In article , Jaques d'Alltrades
writes:

Subject: Jane finds her garden:brick wall question
From: Jaques d'Alltrades
Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2003 14:28:29 GMT

The message
from (BridgeP) contains these words:

Oops! Got a bit ahead of myself there! Old Bob taught me properly, using
matured lime mortar and having the frogs in the bricks on the underside
so water doesn't seep into them and freeze during the winter. Nowadays,
because it's easier and quicker, brickies tend to lay courses with the
frogs upwards. "Oh, that's all right as long as you point them
well....." Pah!

I was taught that it is 'fogs up'. This is in the text books. It
allows more
mortar/brick. 'Frogs down' is the economy method - les mortar.

Nope. You fill the frog with mortar and place a dollop on one end and
lay it, press it into place and trim off extruded excess. Frogs are full
of mortar and can't fill up with water in the case of a broken or poor
bit of pointing.

Modern methods may say frog up. The frog down philosophy was taught me
by a man in his nineties, in the 1950s, but when I lay bricks (which is
seldom) I always lay them that way, and I've never known of any trouble
with what I've put up.

Oh, and the only reason Old Bob wasn't a brickie then was because at his
age he wasn't fast enough, but the firm (Masterbuilder and family) kept
him on, working at his own pace. He was a time-served bricklayer by
trade.

Don't we have any real brickies in this group? I agree that many lay bricks
frog down, because this is quicker and more economical on mortar.

Why fill the frog with mortar if ypou are going to lay it frog down. It cannot
fill with water in that position regardless of how much mortar is on the frog.

I don't want to denigrate Old Bob in any way, but because a professional does
it a particular way does make it the right way. Of course, many new bricks
don't have frogs at all, just holes.

Peter Bridge