Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.

For instance
1. When the sleepers are down and nailed, how full do they have to be
with soil? Up to the top or about three inches down?
2. Should the beds be west to east or north to South?
3. Can you use the individual beds for crop rotation, i.e. one bed for
legumes, one for root crops etc or does there need to be more distance
between?
4. Can I grow potatoes in them or do you still grow them on the flat and
is it possible to plant them say 5 inches down and then gradually fill
up the sleeper beds as the potatoes grow, rather as they do with
barrels?


Well I've looked at loads of book but even the RHS just doesn't give
enough advice about it all.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:09:30 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.

For instance
1. When the sleepers are down and nailed, how full do they have to be
with soil? Up to the top or about three inches down?

The sleepers are really only to prevent the soil from falling out of
the bed - so it follows that any soil raised above the height of the
sleepers may fall out. In practice, such beds are humped - rising
about a foot at the bed's centre from the top of the sleeper.

It's been said that the sleepers are supposed to stop crawling
predators from escaping the bed, thus concentrating their numbers - so
you'll lose this advantage if the soil is piled up to the top of the
sleeper.
Then again, if you're using sleepers - how will the various friendly
bugs get into the bed in the first place?

2. Should the beds be west to east or north to South?

It's not that important - provided you take care not to plant tall
crops at the 'sun end' of the bed, which may shade the rest...unless
that's your intention ( i.e. for mid-summer salad crops ).

3. Can you use the individual beds for crop rotation, i.e. one bed for
legumes, one for root crops etc or does there need to be more distance
between?

The rotation system is more about the prevention of disease build-up -
and whilst it works in a huge multi-field system, its use is a bit
moot in a veg plot where you'll be throwing soil all over the place as
you walk between the beds.
Another reason for its use is the provision of ideal soil conditions
for specific crops ( i.e. very rich soil for hungry feeders such as
courgettes, and undisturbed soil for cabbages ).

There's no reason why you can't sub-divide the beds up and plant
whatever you like, where you like.
It does, however, pay to plan a little - last year's courgette patch
will make a fine spot for this year's cabbages etc.
It's probably good practice to adopt at least an informal rotation
scheme based on not planting the same crops in the exact same spot
year after year - but bear in mind that one of the plus points of a
deep bed system is a wide variety of crops growing in close
proximity...which can help to confuse pests such as carrot and onion
root fly.

4. Can I grow potatoes in them or do you still grow them on the flat and
is it possible to plant them say 5 inches down and then gradually fill
up the sleeper beds as the potatoes grow, rather as they do with
barrels?

You can chose whichever method suits you.
I've tried several methods on my deep beds - the traditional sowing in
trenches and earthing up; the addition of extra soil; growing under
black plastic; and simply planting deep and letting them get on with
it. They all work.

The big drawback to the soil addition method is that you have to get
the soil from somewhere, and it's works out to be a lot of shoveling!
The advantage is that it suits the deep bed method quite well,
allowing for quite close planting.

Well I've looked at loads of book but even the RHS just doesn't give
enough advice about it all.

I don't think it matters much where you look - you'll always find
conflicting information.
I once found an interesting book in my local library that was devoted
solely to crop rotation in deep beds. It was pretty complicated stuff
- and it got even more complicated if you decided that you didn't want
to grow any brassicas in a particular year!
Chuck in the concept of intercropping and the whole thing becomes so
anal you just give up and go to Sainsbury's.

And then I saw a Gardener's World programme which featured Geoff
Hamilton ( mayherestinpeace ) standing alongside a set of deep beds
that were practically bursting with crops. He said it didn't matter -
just bung it in wherever there's a space.

The Henry Doubleday people publish a small pamphlet on the subject
that's quite handy.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

Stephen Howard wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:09:30 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:


Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.


I have been using raised beds for a couple of years now. As regards
potatoes, I just plant them normally and instead of hoe-ing soil over I
cover them with grass clippings off the lawn, works fine for me.

I try to keep the same type of crop ( roots, brassicas etc.) in each bed
and rotate them. However it is not always practical, as you will not
need the same room for each crop type. I have some beds running E/W and
others N/S, both ways work fine for me.

I find it easy to protect them with netting, fleece and polythene for
early crops. I have made hoops U shaped using plastic electric conduit
for the straight arms and joining to together using the blue plastic
water cable, they fit each other a treat! I simply push the hoops into
the beds then throw the protection over securing it with batons fixed to
the sleeper tops.

--
Please only reply to Newsgroup as emails
to this address are deleted on arrival.

In article , Janet Tweedy
writes
Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.

For instance
1. When the sleepers are down and nailed, how full do they have to be
with soil? Up to the top or about three inches down?

No point in doing anything other than filling to the top.

2. Should the beds be west to east or north to South?
3. Can you use the individual beds for crop rotation, i.e. one bed for
legumes, one for root crops etc

Yes

or does there need to be more distance
between?

No

4. Can I grow potatoes in them or do you still grow them on the flat and
is it possible to plant them say 5 inches down and then gradually fill
up the sleeper beds as the potatoes grow, rather as they do with
barrels?

You can lay potatoes on the ground inside the beds and cover them with
compost. I've done that and it worked well.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Janet Tweedy
writes
Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.

For instance
1. When the sleepers are down and nailed, how full do they have to be
with soil? Up to the top or about three inches down?

No point in doing anything other than filling to the top.

Unless....
We leave a 3inch lip. This lip has angled holes drilled in it along both
long sides at 18inch intervals. Into these we force bamboo canes so that
they arch upwards and over. When the canes are fitted we can drape polythene
sheet over them, stapling down round the edges to make a useful cloche.
Later in the season they are useful to support fruit netting to keep away
the birds.

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 10:09:30 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.

For instance
1. When the sleepers are down and nailed, how full do they have to be
with soil? Up to the top or about three inches down?

you can mound the soil in the beds as it will settle anyway, just
don't mound all the way to the garden edge. eg.,. my gardens are
generally 10"s high but the medium can be up to around 14"s or so
high.

2. Should the beds be west to east or north to South?

i find north/south works well that way it doesn't matter waht you
plant where they all get a fare shke of the sun as it passes over, but
in the end you do what you need to do for your setup.

3. Can you use the individual beds for crop rotation, i.e. one bed for
legumes, one for root crops etc or does there need to be more distance
between?

yes, but not totally necessary, i plant 1 of this and 1 of that here,
there and everywhere makes it harder for the bugs to find it all that
way (i grow organically). rotation will work but usually they
recommend at least a 4 year cycle some say 6 year cycle can be a bit
hard to manage in the backyard garden. i find because i am adding more
material to the beds between seasons and crops i don't get any soil
bound problems with my plants. my beds generally are about 1 meter
apart, and they are app' 1meter wide and around 6 meters long as a
maximum, that way i don't tend to want to walk on them so no tools for
digging are needed.

4. Can I grow potatoes in them or do you still grow them on the flat and
is it possible to plant them say 5 inches down and then gradually fill
up the sleeper beds as the potatoes grow, rather as they do with
barrels?

yes you can still grow potatoes in them usually all i do is push the
seed spud into the ground just a little and then cover with mulch and
keep mulching them as the plant grows, this replicates the tedious job
of growing in a trench and hilling, i get very good results and i
harvest using my hands no tools needed. plus the mulch is there early
to conserve moisture and minimise watering needs. also acts as a
thermal blanket keeping the soil cool or warm whatever the season.



Well I've looked at loads of book but even the RHS just doesn't give
enough advice about it all.

enjoy

len

Janet

--
happy gardening
'it works for me it could work for you,'

"in the end ya' gotta do what ya' gotta do" but consider others and the environment
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gardenlen1/

In article , Stephen Howard
writes


The sleepers are really only to prevent the soil from falling out of
the bed - so it follows that any soil raised above the height of the
sleepers may fall out. In practice, such beds are humped - rising
about a foot at the bed's centre from the top of the sleeper.


Actually I have scaffolding planks because they are marginally easier to
carry 200 foot up the garden.


The rotation system is more about the prevention of disease build-up -
and whilst it works in a huge multi-field system, its use is a bit
moot in a veg plot where you'll be throwing soil all over the place as
you walk between the beds.

But you aren't if you have raised beds, are you?
At the moment I have four large 14 x 14 foot squares with a pathway
between, I thought raised beds would organise the plot more.


Another reason for its use is the provision of ideal soil conditions
for specific crops ( i.e. very rich soil for hungry feeders such as
courgettes, and undisturbed soil for cabbages ).

Yes I got that, I'm filling the first beds I make with stuff from the
compost heap.


ne of the plus points of a
deep bed system is a wide variety of crops growing in close
proximity...which can help to confuse pests such as carrot and onion
root fly.

Yes but that's what I mean, how close can I plant?


The big drawback to the soil addition method is that you have to get
the soil from somewhere, and it's works out to be a lot of shoveling!

That's okay, I have a very big 12 x 12 foot old four foot high compost
heap that hasn't been dug for about 6 years.


Well I've looked at loads of book but even the RHS just doesn't give
enough advice about it all.

I don't think it matters much where you look - you'll always find
conflicting information.
I once found an interesting book in my local library that was devoted
solely to crop rotation in deep beds. It was pretty complicated stuff
- and it got even more complicated if you decided that you didn't want
to grow any brassicas in a particular year!
Chuck in the concept of intercropping and the whole thing becomes so
anal you just give up and go to Sainsbury's.

And then I saw a Gardener's World programme which featured Geoff
Hamilton ( mayherestinpeace ) standing alongside a set of deep beds
that were practically bursting with crops. He said it didn't matter -
just bung it in wherever there's a space.

Good old Geoff ! I was hoping that someone like him or Geoffrey Smith
would have written something about them but find that even in my first
bed I'm having to find room for stuff such as rocket, sage , raspberries
and do I really want to move three gooseberry bushes.



The Henry Doubleday people publish a small pamphlet on the subject
that's quite handy.


Got that thanks but thanks you also for the information.

--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Broadback
writes

I find it easy to protect them with netting, fleece and polythene for
early crops. I have made hoops U shaped using plastic electric conduit
for the straight arms and joining to together using the blue plastic
water cable, they fit each other a treat! I simply push the hoops into
the beds then throw the protection over securing it with batons fixed
to the sleeper tops.


Oh great idea! I put fleece over the carrots and also the lettuce so
that pigeons wouldn't eat the latter but the dogs took one look at these
raised platforms in the sun, 14 foot long and wide enough to lay on with
fleece kindly provided and I found them both sunbathing up there
oblivious to my crops

The only thing I worry about is that in raising the beds I'll make them
dryer, but it is so nice to be able to put a spade or trowel in the
ground without hitting enough flints to front Buckingham palace
janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Sue da Nimm
writes

Unless....
We leave a 3inch lip. This lip has angled holes drilled in it along both
long sides at 18inch intervals. Into these we force bamboo canes so that
they arch upwards and over. When the canes are fitted we can drape polythene
sheet over them, stapling down round the edges to make a useful cloche.
Later in the season they are useful to support fruit netting to keep away
the birds.




How inventive! Sounds like a great idea as well.

janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , len gardener
writes

yes you can still grow potatoes in them usually all i do is push the
seed spud into the ground just a little and then cover with mulch and
keep mulching them as the plant grows, this replicates the tedious job
of growing in a trench and hilling, i get very good results and i
harvest using my hands no tools needed. plus the mulch is there early
to conserve moisture and minimise watering needs. also acts as a
thermal blanket keeping the soil cool or warm whatever the season.


What type of mulch do you use? Are you on sandy or clay soil?

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

The message
from Janet Tweedy contains these words:

Where can I get specifically on raised beds for growing vegetables?
There's a couple of things I can't find details on.

Well I've looked at loads of book but even the RHS just doesn't give
enough advice about it all.

There are some very good information services run for wheel-chair and
disabled gardeners, which are sure to cover raised beds. Useful sources,
whether or not you're intending to make them high enough for wheelchair
access.

Janet

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:45:47 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

In article , Sue da Nimm
writes

Unless....
We leave a 3inch lip. This lip has angled holes drilled in it along both
long sides at 18inch intervals. Into these we force bamboo canes so that
they arch upwards and over. When the canes are fitted we can drape polythene
sheet over them, stapling down round the edges to make a useful cloche.
Later in the season they are useful to support fruit netting to keep away
the birds.




How inventive! Sounds like a great idea as well.

Another method that works very well on non-lined beds is to use
lengths of plastic water pipe. Just push each end into the ground
either side of the bed and the pipe forms a natural arch over the bed.

Works with hazel sticks too!

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:41:29 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

In article , Stephen Howard
writes


The sleepers are really only to prevent the soil from falling out of
the bed - so it follows that any soil raised above the height of the
sleepers may fall out. In practice, such beds are humped - rising
about a foot at the bed's centre from the top of the sleeper.


Actually I have scaffolding planks because they are marginally easier to
carry 200 foot up the garden.

Sound ideal - you don't really need the width of a sleeper.
I've nabbed four such boards for a strawberry bed.


The rotation system is more about the prevention of disease build-up -
and whilst it works in a huge multi-field system, its use is a bit
moot in a veg plot where you'll be throwing soil all over the place as
you walk between the beds.

But you aren't if you have raised beds, are you?

Yeah, you do. Doesn't matter how clean and tidy you are, there's
always the odd clod of soil that drops onto the paths between the beds
- not to mention any soil on your tools.
It's strictly an exercise in neatness - and will do nothing to prevent
contamination between beds.

At the moment I have four large 14 x 14 foot squares with a pathway
between, I thought raised beds would organise the plot more.

It does. I have four 30ft x 4ft beds in my plot - just helps to keep
things orderly, and it looks nice
Mine aren't lined. I had to dig so much flint out that by the time I
infilled with manure, the beds just about came back up to ground
level.
I guess I have sunken raised beds!

Another reason for its use is the provision of ideal soil conditions
for specific crops ( i.e. very rich soil for hungry feeders such as
courgettes, and undisturbed soil for cabbages ).

Yes I got that, I'm filling the first beds I make with stuff from the
compost heap.

The deep bed system works well with trench composting over the winter.
Simply dig a small trench, shove your kitchen waste into it and cover
with soil as you dig the next trench. But the time May comes around
you'll have a spot that just perfect for deep, gross feeders.


ne of the plus points of a
deep bed system is a wide variety of crops growing in close
proximity...which can help to confuse pests such as carrot and onion
root fly.

Yes but that's what I mean, how close can I plant?

Onions and carrots work very well when 'bunched' - that's to say four
or five plants shoulder to shoulder. You get smaller veg, but the
overall yield of the plot increases.
If going for the traditionally spaced method you can generally halve
the distances printed on the seed packets.
That said, I've found that lettuces do far better with lots of space
between plants, and suffer less from slug attack.


The big drawback to the soil addition method is that you have to get
the soil from somewhere, and it's works out to be a lot of shoveling!

That's okay, I have a very big 12 x 12 foot old four foot high compost
heap that hasn't been dug for about 6 years.

Mixed 50/50 with soil, that would be perfect stuff to use for earthing
up!


And then I saw a Gardener's World programme which featured Geoff
Hamilton ( mayherestinpeace ) standing alongside a set of deep beds
that were practically bursting with crops. He said it didn't matter -
just bung it in wherever there's a space.

Good old Geoff ! I was hoping that someone like him or Geoffrey Smith
would have written something about them but find that even in my first
bed I'm having to find room for stuff such as rocket, sage , raspberries
and do I really want to move three gooseberry bushes.

I've had poor results with 'Mediterranean' type herbs - it's not that
they haven't grown...quite the opposite - more that they've produced a
less intense flavour. I usually confine them to the surrounding
borders, where they seem to thrive in spite of the neglect!

I tried to grow rocket last year...flea beetle ate the lot
I had no idea they'd eat the stuff...so when they come around this
year....I'll be ready!

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article , Stephen Howard
writes

Actually I have scaffolding planks because they are marginally easier to
carry 200 foot up the garden.

Sound ideal - you don't really need the width of a sleeper.
I've nabbed four such boards for a strawberry bed.


Nabbing would have been a darn sight cheaper! They cost me £11 each
locally and take two and a half to make one bed. I have room for 12 or
13 beds so it's going to cost a bomb in the end .Plus the cost of laying
weed cover on the pathway in between.


At the moment I have four large 14 x 14 foot squares with a pathway
between, I thought raised beds would organise the plot more.

It does. I have four 30ft x 4ft beds in my plot - just helps to keep
things orderly, and it looks nice
Mine aren't lined. I had to dig so much flint out that by the time I
infilled with manure, the beds just about came back up to ground
level.
I guess I have sunken raised beds!

Oh good so have I at the moment! I did think of putting weed blanket on
the bottom and then filling in with top soil/compost etc just to stop
any perennial weeds that I might have missed, but didn't bother in the
end.


The deep bed system works well with trench composting over the winter.
Simply dig a small trench, shove your kitchen waste into it and cover
with soil as you dig the next trench. But the time May comes around
you'll have a spot that just perfect for deep, gross feeders.

Did that as well for the runner beans as I find it keeps the moisture in
the soil for longer during dry weather. It seems to encourage a vast
amount of worms as well.


Onions and carrots work very well when 'bunched' - that's to say four
or five plants shoulder to shoulder. You get smaller veg, but the
overall yield of the plot increases.
If going for the traditionally spaced method you can generally halve
the distances printed on the seed packets.
That said, I've found that lettuces do far better with lots of space
between plants, and suffer less from slug attack.

Think you should write an article about this as you have some very good
ideas and information.


I tried to grow rocket last year...flea beetle ate the lot
I had no idea they'd eat the stuff...so when they come around this
year....I'll be ready!

Regards,


I've got wild and ordinary rocket if you want to try some different
types. Moles seeds seems t sell a variety of vegetable seeds not often
seen elsewhere but blinking big packets!!
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Janet
Baraclough.. writes

There are some very good information services run for wheel-chair and
disabled gardeners, which are sure to cover raised beds. Useful sources,
whether or not you're intending to make them high enough for wheelchair
access.

Janet


Well not actually, the space between was for my wheelbarrow.

I just wanted to get the beds away from some of the flint and also
reduce the water levels in the winter as the clay seems to make some
crops rot off when cold and damp.
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk