I am putting up this topic on behalf of good friends of ours. They have
had a colony of honey bees in their roof for a long time and have not
been able to get rid of it, even with the help of our local bee keeper.
This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.

Honey bees are protected, aren't they? So is there any kind or natural
way of persuading them to move out and stay out? Our friends are
talking about having to demolish both chimney and stack, and maybe even
some of the roof or end wall of their house to both get rid of them and
prevent them coming back. Our friends have just about had enough so any
constructive help or advice will be more than welcome. TIA.
--
Susie Thompson
SPAM BLOCK IN OPERATION! Replace "deadspam.com" with "arrandragons.co.uk" to
reply by e-mail.

In article ,
SusieThompson wrote:
I am putting up this topic on behalf of good friends of ours. They have
had a colony of honey bees in their roof for a long time and have not
been able to get rid of it, even with the help of our local bee keeper.
This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.

Honey bees are protected, aren't they? So is there any kind or natural
way of persuading them to move out and stay out? Our friends are
talking about having to demolish both chimney and stack, and maybe even
some of the roof or end wall of their house to both get rid of them and
prevent them coming back. Our friends have just about had enough so any
constructive help or advice will be more than welcome. TIA.

As far as I know, no. But that is completely OTT - they can be
killed in situ if need be, but another swarm will probabaly move
in if they do that.

A more relevant question is why are they entering the house?

They don't normally do that just because they have a nest in the
roof - we had one in a chimney for years with no trouble. It
is likely to be easier, cheaper and more bee-friendly to block
the ways that they are doing that and encourage them to stay
outside.

I recommend that they consult another, more expert, beekeeper.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 23 May 2004 15:39:03 GMT, Nick Maclaren wrote:

I recommend that they consult another, more expert, beekeeper.

I think there is someone over in uk.d-i-y with more knowledge about
bees than you can shake a stick at, try posting over there.

--
Cheers
Dave. pam is missing e-mail

On Sun, 23 May 2004 14:52:01 +0100, SusieThompson
wrote:

I am putting up this topic on behalf of good friends of ours. They have
had a colony of honey bees in their roof for a long time and have not
been able to get rid of it, even with the help of our local bee keeper.
This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.

Honey bees are protected, aren't they? So is there any kind or natural
way of persuading them to move out and stay out? Our friends are
talking about having to demolish both chimney and stack, and maybe even
some of the roof or end wall of their house to both get rid of them and
prevent them coming back. Our friends have just about had enough so any
constructive help or advice will be more than welcome. TIA.

I'm a bit surprised that there are any 'wild' colonies of honey bees
left. AIUI, the varroa mite has wiped out virtually all of them. I'm
also surprised that you say a new colony has moved in, as bees
normally defend their colonies against intruders, with vigor. However,
as you say a beekeeper has already had a look at them, I assume they
are actually honey bees, and not wasps or bumbles for example. Perhaps
the old colony died out, leaving some comb with honey still in it that
attracted a new swarm.

It's been a while since I kept bees, but there is a way of shifting an
established colony from an awkward and undesirable site. I can't
remember all the details, but it involves putting a small (nucleus)
hive on a stand very close (within inches) to the point where the bees
enter the roof i.e. on the outside of the house (this is not always
easy, as you can imagine). You may have to put a few combs of larvae
into the said hive, I can't remember. You then thoroughly seal one end
a short length of plastic plumbing pipe (say two or three feet) over
the hole in the roof or wherever, that they're using as their
principal entrance. If there are any secondary entrances, seal these
up completely so that the bees are forced to use the pipe. Slowly,
over a period of several weeks, the bees will transfer out of the roof
and into the new hive, which can then be taken away.

It works like this. Bees learn and know the position of the entrance
to their colony to within a few inches. When they leave the hive to
forage for nectar, they will fly up the pipe that's sealed over the
entrance and leave from the open end, not realising that this is now a
couple of feet from the original colony entrance. But when they
return, they will come back to the base of the pipe, now sealed over
the old entrance. But if it's been sealed properly, they can't get
back in, and will cluster around the base of the pipe in ever-
increasing numbers as more and more bees return. Eventually, they make
their way into the new hive that's been positioned right next to the
old entrance, and set up home there, especially if there are unsealed
brood (i.e. immature grubs) present, as they are instinctively
compelled to feed and nurture the grubs. Gradually all the flying bees
are siphoned away from the old colony into the new hive. If the pipe
is moved around from time to time, to allow for the fact that new,
first-time fliers learn the exit point from the tube, there are
eventually no supplies coming into the old colony, they cannot raise
any more young bees, and the colony dies out.

I'm sure there are some bits I've forgotten, but a good beekeeper with
access to the right books or the combined knowledge of a local
beekeepers' association, should be able to do it. It all depends on
whether you can get access to the exit point in the roof, and whether
you can set up a small hive there.

BTW, I don't think honey bees are protected.


--
Chris

E-mail: christopher[dot]hogg[at]virgin[dot]net

In article , SusieThompson
writes
I am putting up this topic on behalf of good friends of ours. They have
had a colony of honey bees in their roof for a long time and have not
been able to get rid of it, even with the help of our local bee keeper.
This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.

Easiest way would be to light a fire in the fireplace. The bees will
soon move out.

Honey bees are protected, aren't they?

They are wild, so presumably the Wildlife and Countryside Act applies to
them.

So is there any kind or natural
way of persuading them to move out and stay out?

Its easier to persuade them not to go there in the first place. You
could set up a bait hive in the garden, this might work quite well if
you can get a lot of smoke up the chimney.

Our friends are
talking about having to demolish both chimney and stack, and maybe even
some of the roof or end wall of their house to both get rid of them and
prevent them coming back.

They could just put a net over the chimney once the bees are out.

John
--
John Rouse

On Sun, 23 May 2004 14:52:01 +0100, SusieThompson wrote:

I am putting up this topic on behalf of good friends of ours. They have
had a colony of honey bees in their roof for a long time and have not
been able to get rid of it, even with the help of our local bee keeper.
This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.

Honey bees are protected, aren't they? So is there any kind or natural
way of persuading them to move out and stay out? Our friends are
talking about having to demolish both chimney and stack, and maybe even
some of the roof or end wall of their house to both get rid of them and
prevent them coming back. Our friends have just about had enough so any
constructive help or advice will be more than welcome. TIA.

Wasp and hornet nests inside one's walls roof or attic, being
made from paper and generally only of annual duration, are one
thing, but honeybees' perennial hives of wax and honey are quite
a different story. It is my understanding that having a honeybee
hive in one's walls is a fairly serious matter. Sooner or later
the hive will die out and you are left with a mass of wax and
honey which will itself eventually decay and cause an incredible
mess inside the wall. And this is a semi-fluid mess which can
soak through plaster, flow down into lower levels, and so on. No
trifling matter.

I suggest your friends find an experienced, reliable pest-control
service to remove or exterminate the hive, and then undertake the
deconstruction necessary to remove the actual structure of the
hive.

They would also do well to have a building contractor seal up the
structure of their roof so a re-infestation cannot occur.


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

There is an ng "rec.sci.beekeeping" which would almost certainly be
better than us.

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

"....... This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.............."

I wonder if the bees you have are swarming, I was buzzed to day by a swarm
of maybe a thousand or so bees which came over the hedge next to where I was
hoeing, looked around for a couple of minutes then moved on.
Bees are not protected, and mostly; if it is accessible a bee keeper will be
happy to take away a swam/colony in May or June.
Remember the old Rhyme
A swarm in May is worth a load of Hay,
A swarm in June is worth a silver spoon,
A swarm in July is not worth a fly.


--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

In article , Lazarus
Cooke wrote:

There is an ng "rec.sci.beekeeping" which would almost certainly be
better than us.

L

No there isn't , you fool. it's "sci.agriculture.beekeeping". Please
pay attention!

L

--
Remover the rock from the email address

In message , Lazarus
Cooke writes
In article , Lazarus
Cooke wrote:

There is an ng "rec.sci.beekeeping" which would almost certainly be
better than us.

L

No there isn't , you fool. it's "sci.agriculture.beekeeping". Please
pay attention!

L

Thanks for the suggestion - I have just posted my original message to
sci.agriculture.beekeeping. Our friends are coming over for dinner on
Tuesday evening - by which time I hope to have some constructive
suggestions to pass on to them. By then the local bee keeper will have
had another look at the situation. By the way, I don't think that
varroa has reached Arran yet, at least I haven't heard of it or read
about it in the local paper, the Arran Banner. I have come across two
wild honey bee colonies now - one in our friends' home and another in
the roof of one of the island's churches. I'm sure that there must be
more.

I had been hoping that there was a way of deterring the bees. In the
past I have used oil of peppermint to persuade ants to move their nests
out of the greenhouse. I wondered if there was something similar that
bees couldn't stand and would move out to get away from?

Susie
--
Susie Thompson
SPAM BLOCK IN OPERATION! Replace "deadspam.com" with "arrandragons.co.uk" to
reply by e-mail.

On Sun, 23 May 2004 21:24:08 +0100, "David Hill"
wrote:

"....... This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.............."

I wonder if the bees you have are swarming, I was buzzed to day by a swarm
of maybe a thousand or so bees which came over the hedge next to where I was
hoeing, looked around for a couple of minutes then moved on.
Bees are not protected, and mostly; if it is accessible a bee keeper will be
happy to take away a swam/colony in May or June.
Remember the old Rhyme
A swarm in May is worth a load of Hay,
A swarm in June is worth a silver spoon,
A swarm in July is not worth a fly.
A swarm in August is not worth the fuss
A swarm in September is one to remember.
Ditto October ...
Ditto November ...
Ditto December ...
:_)

If the beekeeper can "sweep" the bees (with a bee brush) into a hive box,
and he or she happens to get the QUEEN - the colony will follow her -- the
beekeeper should be using plenty of smoke (this will make them ingest
honey - and calm them down, as they believe their hive is on fire)...


"SusieThompson" wrote in message
...
I am putting up this topic on behalf of good friends of ours. They have
had a colony of honey bees in their roof for a long time and have not
been able to get rid of it, even with the help of our local bee keeper.
This morning a new, larger, noisier colony has moved in, making the
problem even worse. The bees are coming into the house, down the chimney
indoors and worrying their next door neighbour.

Honey bees are protected, aren't they? So is there any kind or natural
way of persuading them to move out and stay out? Our friends are
talking about having to demolish both chimney and stack, and maybe even
some of the roof or end wall of their house to both get rid of them and
prevent them coming back. Our friends have just about had enough so any
constructive help or advice will be more than welcome. TIA.
--
Susie Thompson
SPAM BLOCK IN OPERATION! Replace "deadspam.com" with "arrandragons.co.uk"
to
reply by e-mail.

lid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote in
:

It is my understanding that having a honeybee
hive in one's walls is a fairly serious matter. Sooner or later
the hive will die out and you are left with a mass of wax and
honey which will itself eventually decay and cause an incredible
mess inside the wall. And this is a semi-fluid mess which can
soak through plaster, flow down into lower levels, and so on. No
trifling matter.


We had one in a chimney, which was gassed. Solid stone walls and chimney
breasts supporting them, so no way to get the hive out (bottom of that flue
was blocked up.)

We just left it in the 15 years later, still no problems. If it was
inside a wall next to plasterboard or something I imagine it would be more
problematic though.

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

In article . 10,
Victoria Clare writes:
| lid (Rodger Whitlock) wrote in
| :
|
| It is my understanding that having a honeybee
| hive in one's walls is a fairly serious matter. Sooner or later
| the hive will die out and you are left with a mass of wax and
| honey which will itself eventually decay and cause an incredible
| mess inside the wall. And this is a semi-fluid mess which can
| soak through plaster, flow down into lower levels, and so on. No
| trifling matter.
|
| We had one in a chimney, which was gassed. Solid stone walls and chimney
| breasts supporting them, so no way to get the hive out (bottom of that flue
| was blocked up.)
|
| We just left it in the 15 years later, still no problems. If it was
| inside a wall next to plasterboard or something I imagine it would be more
| problematic though.

We had no problem, either. The honey and (still more) wax will
NOT decay into a semi-fluid mess unless there are ALSO damp
problems. If kept reasonably dry, both will keep indefinitely
(though they will crystallise and oxidise somewhat).

"Indefinitely" means for millennia at least, incidentally.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

"SusieThompson" wrote in message
news
In message , Lazarus
Cooke writes
In article , Lazarus
Cooke wrote:

There is an ng "rec.sci.beekeeping" which would almost certainly be
better than us.

L

No there isn't , you fool. it's "sci.agriculture.beekeeping". Please
pay attention!

L

Thanks for the suggestion - I have just posted my original message to
sci.agriculture.beekeeping. Our friends are coming over for dinner on
Tuesday evening - by which time I hope to have some constructive
suggestions to pass on to them. By then the local bee keeper will have
had another look at the situation. By the way, I don't think that
varroa has reached Arran yet, at least I haven't heard of it or read
about it in the local paper, the Arran Banner. I have come across two
wild honey bee colonies now - one in our friends' home and another in
the roof of one of the island's churches. I'm sure that there must be
more.

I had been hoping that there was a way of deterring the bees. In the
past I have used oil of peppermint to persuade ants to move their nests
out of the greenhouse. I wondered if there was something similar that
bees couldn't stand and would move out to get away from?

Susie
--
Susie Thompson

We have had bees in the roof the whole time we have lived here and I have
since traced them back to 1904. Apparently swarms can smell old honeycomb
and will reoccupy a site so trying to eradicate them is pointless, ours do
no harm and even allow a starling to nest in the same entrance hole (and yes
the roof does need a little attention!)

--
Charlie, gardening in Cornwall.
http://www.roselandhouse.co.uk
Holders of National Plant Collection of Clematis viticella (cvs)