"Sacha" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I don't mind people having others to work in their garden but those who
simply hand over a cheque and say "furnish that" are no more gardeners
than
those who do the same to interior designers are er, "interior designers."

Fine, but there are gardeners who get paid and then there are their
customers, (the cheque hander overs) who are not neccessarily gardeners, nor
would the make such a claim.

Patrick

On 31/5/04 5:35 pm, in article , "mich"
wrote:


"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:07:55 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

Got chatting to the Head Gardener, Graham Bachman (I think) and he was
talking about the TV presenters who have been there. He said R de T
was a real gardener, knew her plant names and could hold a
conversation.

Maybe this brings us back to the point of what defines a "real gardener" ( I
never said *real gardener*, I said gardener, but that might be splitting
hairs)

I too know my plant names and can hold a conversation ( I even have a few
horticultural certificates of the City and Guilds Level 3 kind with
distinctions to "prove" it g) but I am not what I would consider a
"gardener".

A gardener is someone who can get down and do the job. I just teach! g I
can teach almost anything to anyone.

We saw Sarah raven get down and dirty in the ground. The way she weilds a
spade shows she can do ( you should see me with a spade - or maybe not) .
That in my book is what makes a gardener. R de T simply doesnt have that get
down and dirty look.



Sorry but I can't agree with this. While many gardeners get down and get
their hands dirty, this doesn't mean that those who can't or don't aren't
real gardeners. I have quite a back problem - my physio describes it as
'fragile - and while I do as much as I can, pain just stops me in the end.
I have two choices, stop for some days, or be useless for a lot longer,
maybe always. So - while Ray does most of the digging and so forth, and I
do what I can on a 'good back day' I am NO less interested in or passionate
about plants, our garden they grow in and so forth. Heavens, the other day
I even had to ask him to put 4 pelargoniums into a slightly raised bed
because the stooping and reaching required was beyond me on that particular
day.
Before I met Ray, I had help in the garden nearly all my adult life, because
I have had back trouble since adolescence. I had to have help or have no
garden but dirty hands alone do not a gardener make.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

"Sacha" wrote

But Bob Flowerdew is employed *precisely* for his organic gardening
knowledge. The other presenters are not (necessarily) organic gardeners.
You don't have to follow Flowerdew or Titch or Monty or whoever but you can
glean something from all, usually.


What has happened to Bob F ?? I never see him on BBC anymore. has he gone
'commercial" ?

Jenny

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 31/5/04 11:28 am, in article ,
"Kay
Easton" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
snip
Irish and Cockney accents
for Diarmuid and Joe - nothing else left, really. ;-) Somehow, Geoff
Hamilton got by with a spade and fork and dirty hands. Nowadays,
they'd
probably tell him to have a perm, or something. Even Tommy's had a
'hair
do'.

Hey - that's overstating it a bit! Irish and cockney accents a
'gimmick'? - (good job you didn't say 'lancashire' else you'd have been
well taken to task ;-) )

LOL. Gimmick in the sense that I think the ethnic bit is rather
over-played
as part of a personality cult - we have the fiery, argumentative Irishman
and the cheeky chappie Cockney stuff. I don't like Diarmuid Gavin's voice
because I find he swallows his words and is hard to follow which rather
defeats the object of a telly or radio commentator and for me all this
having to be a 'personality' is really just annoying and a distraction
from
the business in hand - gardening. Perhaps that's why I and many others
appear to prefer Monty Don - he doesn't wear weird clothes, pull strange
faces and muck about with fellow presenters - he talks about gardening.
Or
- wait! Maybe there's a sinister plot! Maybe that's his gimmick. ;-)
Come to think of it, if they did a serious veg gardening programme,
perhaps
they *would* use a northern accent - northerners being perceived as
thrifty,
hard-working wo/men of the soil as opposed to the flighty southerners
worrying about their pelargoniums. ;-)

I did use the word gimmick in reference to Diarmuids Nat Lott garden.
In fairness, all exhibits centred around something which could be referred
to as a gimmick, be that the name of the garden, it's theme or "message"
If there was someone there showing how to take cuttings., or sow seed, or
tend to plants, then even that might be construed as a future sales minded
gimmick...Unless off course there was no identity attached. But then the
meeja would follow up on such an individual and so s/he would get labeled
here as some sort of meeja fraud.
It does seem strange that gardening things are done via the telly by people
who seem to get the most bile from this group

Patrick

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

"tuin man" wrote in message
...

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:18:12 +0100, "tuin man"
wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
news

snipping out lots and lots fairly randomly.... but hope I retain some of the
point


can someone tell me what a real gardener is?


I also noted the evident dislike of Rachel de Thames vs Sarah Raven and
Chris Beardshaw seems to be on the group hitlist. Why? Aren't they
gardeners too?

1) No idea
2) I would have thought so, unless they're actually not in the least bit
interested in horticulture, but are very good at learning their line...
nah... too far fetched.


I'm still developing my interest in gardening so don't understand the
distinction that seems so apparent to the group regulars.

Standing by Diarmuids National Lottery Garden a couple were chatting
next
to
me. She said something like ; oh look how the grass (lawn) sweeps under
the
concrete. That is soooo new. Must be a new idea and it looks wonderful.
Everyone else would just bring it up to the edge.. How interesting! How
new!

Now, suffice to say, there are a few here who might suggest she is not
a
"real gardener". The term "Real gardener" probably refers to at least a
basic measure of knowledge that would enable an show observer to
realise
the
difference between reality and fantasy. Perhaps another title might be
a
"reality" gardener

Well OK I understand the issue about the grass not growing under the
concrete lip. While I don't like everything Diarmuid designs he
evidently understands plants - at least from where I sit. Does the fact
that he designs outlandish structures really make him not a gardener?


I think a lot of this debate is rather like trying to establish the
difference between a florist, a floral artist and a flower arranger!

In this case we are dealing with the gardener, the garden designer and the
plantsman

In the former case ( flower arranging) the differences are quite technical
and revolve around type of work they do ( and in the case of the
professional the type of training and certification) and the context in
which they operate and their interests.

Probably the same is true of gardening.

I consider most of the historic "gardeners" on GW , up to and including AT
to be gardeners. I would also put Sarah raven and Gay Search in that group.

Joe swift, R.de T Chris Beardshaw, and most of the modern breed (
including Mr. D. Gavin and his over the garden fence neighbour in
conflict at Chelsea Bunny Guinness ( sp? Dont touch the stuff myself- as
in the famous Irish beer which no doubt Mr. Gavin loves even though he
doesn't agree with its namesake !) ;-) and such like to be garden designers.

Plantsmen ( and I believe AT is probably also a plantsman, as maybe several
others , although its not his main craft) are people like the bloke from
Great Dixter etc ( sorry cant remember his name)

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 31/5/04 5:35 pm, in article 2i14niFi97orU1@uni-

snipped.
I had to have help or have no
garden but dirty hands alone do not a gardener make.

Whew, that's good news, because I tend to wear gloves and therefore ... not
very dirty hands.

Patrick

Kay Easton wrote:
: In article , Stan The Man
: writes
:
:: Since organic gardeners are still
:: a small minority of the total, the BBC should stamp on him before he
:: alienates a lot of viewers.
:
: I'm old enough to remember when the BBC felt it had a purpose to
: educate and to raise standards, rather than simply pander to the
: tastes of the majority.

too right

On 31/5/04 6:40 pm, in article , "tuin man"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
wrote:
I don't mind people having others to work in their garden but those who
simply hand over a cheque and say "furnish that" are no more gardeners
than
those who do the same to interior designers are er, "interior designers."

Fine, but there are gardeners who get paid and then there are their
customers, (the cheque hander overs) who are not neccessarily gardeners, nor
would the make such a claim.

Patrick



I thought that's what I was saying. ;-) Ah well......
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

On 31/5/04 7:19 pm, in article , "tuin man"
wrote:


"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 31/5/04 5:35 pm, in article 2i14niFi97orU1@uni-

snipped.
I had to have help or have no
garden but dirty hands alone do not a gardener make.

Whew, that's good news, because I tend to wear gloves and therefore ... not
very dirty hands.


Now you see, I can't wear gloves. I have to get the hands into the earth.
So - does that make me a realer gardener? ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

On 31/5/04 7:22 pm, in article , "mich"
wrote:

snip
like the bloke from
Great Dixter etc ( sorry cant remember his name)


Christopher Lloyds - and that's a garden I dearly want to see.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

The message
from Paul Corfield contains these words:
On Thu, 27 May 2004 18:33:12 +0000 (UTC), "Robert"
wrote:

Sue wrote:
: I've been enjoying the programmes, although I'd rather have had Monty
: Don presenting than Mr Smugmarsh, but two other things have
: particularly jarred every time I've watched:
:
: a) Charlie Dimmock's wooden way of reading anything out to camera and
: b) that flipping awful theme music! :-/

I agree with you about the blue fencing and decking man! Why not a real
gardener but I ask myself is Chelsea for real gardeners?

delurks

Hi Paul!

Fancy meeting you here!

can someone tell me what a real gardener is?

Can't answer that one, I'm afraid.....I'm just a gardener, "real"
doesn't feature in my vocabulary!

I'm still developing my interest in gardening so don't understand the
distinction that seems so apparent to the group regulars.

If you happen to be passing through my neck of the woods this summer, pop
in, and I'll give you a few cuttings.....if you have room in yer panniers!

--
AnneJ

On Mon, 31 May 2004 16:26:12 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 11:49 am, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:27:59 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 11:07 am, in article
, "Sacha"
wrote:

snip Maybe he drives as many people round the bed as he does me. ;-)
snip

Sigh....'bend', not 'bed' before some smart alec picks up on it. ;-)

Too late!
When are they showing that episode? :-)

When I get my second wind. ;-)

LOL

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:56:23 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

Maybe there's a sinister plot! Maybe that's his gimmick. ;-)
Come to think of it, if they did a serious veg gardening programme, perhaps
they *would* use a northern accent - northerners being perceived as thrifty,
hard-working wo/men of the soil as opposed to the flighty southerners
worrying about their pelargoniums. ;-)

yes but then the presenter would wear a flat cap,have a pet whippet
and all episodes would be made in torrential rain. The oblig. pigeon
loft would be in the background along with the washing strung across
the street to dry.

On 1/6/04 9:06, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:56:23 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

Maybe there's a sinister plot! Maybe that's his gimmick. ;-)
Come to think of it, if they did a serious veg gardening programme, perhaps
they *would* use a northern accent - northerners being perceived as thrifty,
hard-working wo/men of the soil as opposed to the flighty southerners
worrying about their pelargoniums. ;-)

yes but then the presenter would wear a flat cap,have a pet whippet
and all episodes would be made in torrential rain. The oblig. pigeon
loft would be in the background along with the washing strung across
the street to dry.

;-) I think the only thing you forgot was the coal in the bath.
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

On Tue, 01 Jun 2004 09:31:50 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 1/6/04 9:06, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:56:23 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

Maybe there's a sinister plot! Maybe that's his gimmick. ;-)
Come to think of it, if they did a serious veg gardening programme, perhaps
they *would* use a northern accent - northerners being perceived as thrifty,
hard-working wo/men of the soil as opposed to the flighty southerners
worrying about their pelargoniums. ;-)

yes but then the presenter would wear a flat cap,have a pet whippet
and all episodes would be made in torrential rain. The oblig. pigeon
loft would be in the background along with the washing strung across
the street to dry.

;-) I think the only thing you forgot was the coal in the bath.

The tin bath in front of the coal fire.
Grimesthorpe Colliery Band playing in the background.
The outside toilet water feature.
Hovis Mills in Macclesfield