On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:08:53 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 9:53 am, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Sun, 30 May 2004 23:54:25 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 30/5/04 10:36 pm, in article , "Kay
Easton" wrote:

In article , Stan The Man
writes

Since organic gardeners are still
a small minority of the total, the BBC should stamp on him before he
alienates a lot of viewers.

I'm old enough to remember when the BBC felt it had a purpose to educate
and to raise standards, rather than simply pander to the tastes of the
majority.

That rings a bell. Isn't that part of its motto in some way?

It's "Nation shall speak peace unto nation"

That's right but as mentioned upthread, part of its charter is to educate,
inform and entertain. Thanks.

The charter is up for renewal. Perhaps things will change for the
better with the new chairman and DG. Until that happens we are
sticking with our 1987 Sony TV, which postdates about 50% of the BBC
programs we watch on it.

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:09:33 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 9:53 am, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

The mandate is still to inform, educate and entertain.

but not all three simultaneously :-)


But why not? I'm looking forward to the new Bill Oddie wildlife programme
for a start! (Tonight, I think)

I hope *we* are not disappointed. :-)

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:27:59 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 11:07 am, in article
, "Sacha"
wrote:

snip Maybe he drives as many people round the bed as he does me. ;-)
snip

Sigh....'bend', not 'bed' before some smart alec picks up on it. ;-)

Too late!
When are they showing that episode? :-)

On 31/5/04 11:28 am, in article , "Kay
Easton" wrote:

In article , Sacha
writes
snip
Irish and Cockney accents
for Diarmuid and Joe - nothing else left, really. ;-) Somehow, Geoff
Hamilton got by with a spade and fork and dirty hands. Nowadays, they'd
probably tell him to have a perm, or something. Even Tommy's had a 'hair
do'.

Hey - that's overstating it a bit! Irish and cockney accents a
'gimmick'? - (good job you didn't say 'lancashire' else you'd have been
well taken to task ;-) )

LOL. Gimmick in the sense that I think the ethnic bit is rather over-played
as part of a personality cult - we have the fiery, argumentative Irishman
and the cheeky chappie Cockney stuff. I don't like Diarmuid Gavin's voice
because I find he swallows his words and is hard to follow which rather
defeats the object of a telly or radio commentator and for me all this
having to be a 'personality' is really just annoying and a distraction from
the business in hand - gardening. Perhaps that's why I and many others
appear to prefer Monty Don - he doesn't wear weird clothes, pull strange
faces and muck about with fellow presenters - he talks about gardening. Or
- wait! Maybe there's a sinister plot! Maybe that's his gimmick. ;-)
Come to think of it, if they did a serious veg gardening programme, perhaps
they *would* use a northern accent - northerners being perceived as thrifty,
hard-working wo/men of the soil as opposed to the flighty southerners
worrying about their pelargoniums. ;-)

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

In article , mich
writes

And yes, I do resent Monty ( and others - Bob Flowerdew on BBC Radio is
another!) telling me how to conduct my gardening.

But I thought that was the whole *point* of watching gardening
programmes - so that knowledgeable gardeners can tell you how to do it!
;-)
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
news
In article , mich
writes

And yes, I do resent Monty ( and others - Bob Flowerdew on BBC Radio is
another!) telling me how to conduct my gardening.

But I thought that was the whole *point* of watching gardening
programmes - so that knowledgeable gardeners can tell you how to do it!
;-)

I think there is a distinct difference between transferring knowledge and
pushing ONE ( in this case organic) viewpoint.

A well balanced presenter would suggest both options rather than
concentrating on their chosen one.
Until Gardeners World becomes Gardeners oraganic World, I expect to be given
suitable knowledge for both views

having said that, as I pointed out before Monty Don is a reasonable
presenter.

"mich" wrote

snipped

BY the way, whats the name of that lady who replaced R.de T whilst she was
germinating and growing on her seedling? I thought she was OK and ought to
have a place on the regular GW team. Maybe she is no real looker , but she
was a gardener!

I don't know her name but she is WONDERFUL - real baggy gardening cloths and a
very down to earth attitude. I hope she comes back......
Jenny

On 31/5/04 11:49 am, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:27:59 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 11:07 am, in article
, "Sacha"
wrote:

snip Maybe he drives as many people round the bed as he does me. ;-)
snip

Sigh....'bend', not 'bed' before some smart alec picks up on it. ;-)

Too late!
When are they showing that episode? :-)

When I get my second wind. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

On 31/5/04 2:44 pm, in article , "mich"
wrote:


"Kay Easton" wrote in message
news
In article , mich
writes

And yes, I do resent Monty ( and others - Bob Flowerdew on BBC Radio is
another!) telling me how to conduct my gardening.

But I thought that was the whole *point* of watching gardening
programmes - so that knowledgeable gardeners can tell you how to do it!
;-)

I think there is a distinct difference between transferring knowledge and
pushing ONE ( in this case organic) viewpoint.

But Bob Flowerdew is employed *precisely* for his organic gardening
knowledge. The other presenters are not (necessarily) organic gardeners.
You don't have to follow Flowerdew or Titch or Monty or whoever but you can
glean something from all, usually.

snip
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

On 31/5/04 11:49 am, in article ,
"martin" wrote:

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:27:59 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

On 31/5/04 11:07 am, in article
, "Sacha"
wrote:

snip Maybe he drives as many people round the bed as he does me. ;-)
snip

Sigh....'bend', not 'bed' before some smart alec picks up on it. ;-)

Too late!
When are they showing that episode? :-)

When I get my second wind. ;-)
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

On 31/5/04 2:44 pm, in article , "mich"
wrote:


"Kay Easton" wrote in message
news
In article , mich
writes

And yes, I do resent Monty ( and others - Bob Flowerdew on BBC Radio is
another!) telling me how to conduct my gardening.

But I thought that was the whole *point* of watching gardening
programmes - so that knowledgeable gardeners can tell you how to do it!
;-)

I think there is a distinct difference between transferring knowledge and
pushing ONE ( in this case organic) viewpoint.

But Bob Flowerdew is employed *precisely* for his organic gardening
knowledge. The other presenters are not (necessarily) organic gardeners.
You don't have to follow Flowerdew or Titch or Monty or whoever but you can
glean something from all, usually.

snip
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

"Sacha" wrote in message
...
On 31/5/04 2:44 pm, in article , "mich"
wrote:


I think there is a distinct difference between transferring knowledge
and
pushing ONE ( in this case organic) viewpoint.

But Bob Flowerdew is employed *precisely* for his organic gardening
knowledge. The other presenters are not (necessarily) organic gardeners.
You don't have to follow Flowerdew or Titch or Monty or whoever but you
can
glean something from all, usually.

Point taken but on GW there is no other view given, not even by the "team"
, hence no balance.

On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:07:55 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

BY the way, whats the name of that lady who replaced R.de T whilst she was
germinating and growing on her seedling? I thought she was OK and ought to
have a place on the regular GW team. Maybe she is no real looker , but she
was a gardener!

I visited Burton House Garden, Tenbury Wells, Worcs (Treasures of
Tenbury) last week. Nice garden, excellent plant centre but I was
disappointed that, holding a National Collection of clematis, there
were not more to be seen.
Got chatting to the Head Gardener, Graham Bachman (I think) and he was
talking about the TV presenters who have been there. He said R de T
was a real gardener, knew her plant names and could hold a
conversation.
I think Sarah Raven is good too. Maybe we could have them both.
The guy also was impressed by Geoffrey Smith and Nigel Colbourne.
He also pushed the point that he does garden talks. He seemed a nice
bloke and I'm sure would be a good speaker. He charges about £40 plus
mileage.

I asked him if John Treasure was still about. "Yes, he's under a
stone in the Churchyard" was his reply!

Pam in Bristol

"Pam Moore" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 31 May 2004 11:07:55 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

Got chatting to the Head Gardener, Graham Bachman (I think) and he was
talking about the TV presenters who have been there. He said R de T
was a real gardener, knew her plant names and could hold a
conversation.

Maybe this brings us back to the point of what defines a "real gardener" ( I
never said *real gardener*, I said gardener, but that might be splitting
hairs)

I too know my plant names and can hold a conversation ( I even have a few
horticultural certificates of the City and Guilds Level 3 kind with
distinctions to "prove" it g) but I am not what I would consider a
"gardener".

A gardener is someone who can get down and do the job. I just teach! g I
can teach almost anything to anyone.

We saw Sarah raven get down and dirty in the ground. The way she weilds a
spade shows she can do ( you should see me with a spade - or maybe not) .
That in my book is what makes a gardener. R de T simply doesnt have that get
down and dirty look.

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:18:12 +0100, "tuin man"
wrote:

"Paul Corfield" wrote in message
news
can someone tell me what a real gardener is?

You for a start!

you haven't seen the dreadful lawn and overgrown borders that I am
slowly trying to tackle.

"Slowly trying to tackle" = gardener to me

Well now, had you asked for *who* is a real gardener, then contrary to
the
awful "Mr Smugmarsh" reference I would say Alan Titchmarsh is a very real
gardener.

Well I'm glad you said that because it is really Alan Titchmarsh's books
and telly programmes that have got me interested.

Which is why he has done so much.

I get the very real sense that people on this group - who I assume are
real gardeners by their own definition - hate programmes like Ground
Force or Garden Rivals or Small Town Gardens etc. From my viewpoint I
think they help people like me understand what is possible and also help
me work out what I like and don't like about certain design aspects.
I've also learnt lots about plants too. Still can't decide quite what
I'm going to do to my garden when it's a bit tidier though!

I've noticed it too. But don't get it.


I also noted the evident dislike of Rachel de Thames vs Sarah Raven and
Chris Beardshaw seems to be on the group hitlist. Why? Aren't they
gardeners too?

1) No idea
2) I would have thought so, unless they're actually not in the least bit
interested in horticulture, but are very good at learning their line...
nah... too far fetched.


I'm still developing my interest in gardening so don't understand the
distinction that seems so apparent to the group regulars.

Standing by Diarmuids National Lottery Garden a couple were chatting next
to
me. She said something like ; oh look how the grass (lawn) sweeps under
the
concrete. That is soooo new. Must be a new idea and it looks wonderful.
Everyone else would just bring it up to the edge.. How interesting! How
new!

Now, suffice to say, there are a few here who might suggest she is not a
"real gardener". The term "Real gardener" probably refers to at least a
basic measure of knowledge that would enable an show observer to realise
the
difference between reality and fantasy. Perhaps another title might be a
"reality" gardener

Well OK I understand the issue about the grass not growing under the
concrete lip. While I don't like everything Diarmuid designs he
evidently understands plants - at least from where I sit. Does the fact
that he designs outlandish structures really make him not a gardener?

No, outlandish stuff does not mean he is not a gardener.


Many "garden designers" lack just such realism yet get tend to be vastly
more appreciated and recognised then "real gardeners" and so I tend to
dream
up various different titles for them, none of which are really repeatable
on
a newsgroup.

So you are really saying that people who design gardens on these telly
programmes don't understand plants and create designs that are
unsustainable as living gardens after the film crew leaves?

No, not at all. I was more thinking in terms of what I've personally
encountered when dealing with "garden" designers.
I've never encountered any of the telly lot but have noted from the one
year on programmes that much of what has being done has lasted, quite unlike
what would have being the case with much of what I've had to deal with and
sadly, a lot of what I saw at hampton the last time I was there. Which was 2
years ago.

watched a fair few of these programmes and I haven't seen many hopeless
designs - maybe some I don't like but that doesn't mean they won't work
as gardens.

True

One series I liked was A Garden for all Seasons because that showed
gardens belonging to "real" people. While the presenting was a bit
wooden (ms dimmock and anne marie powell] I enjoyed seeing the gardens
that people had created and watching how they developed over the year.
There was evidently both design knowledge and horticultural knowledge
being displayed by those real people - are you (the group) saying the
design bit is not important?

Silly design can get very important. Especially if you've paid a shed load
of money to the professional garden designer responsible.


I'm just trying to understand why opinions divide so sharply over things
that, to me, are not *that* important.

Understood.

Patrick