The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?
(Never mind how long it had been on the shop shelves before I bought
it)

Which is preferable, "Strike" powder or Bio "Roota" liquid?

Franz

gOn Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?

I think I've read that the active ingredient decomposes fairly
quickly and that you should buy fresh powder annually. Do I
myself do this? No.

I've also read commments (perhaps here in urg) that for most
plants, rooting hormones are an irrelevancy, so the potency or
impotency of one's hormone powder is also irrelevant.

Still, I use the stuff just in case, but as time goes on my
methods become more and more primitive. Right now I've got rose
cuttings underway, powdered and dibbled directly into the soil
with a glass jar over them, just like grandma used to do.


(Never mind how long it had been on the shop shelves before I bought
it)

Which is preferable, "Strike" powder or Bio "Roota" liquid?

I never had any luck at all with the various rooting-hormone
gels. The cuttings seemed to rot away almost instantly.

YMMV


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

The message
from lid (Rodger Whitlock) contains these words:

gOn Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?

I think I've read that the active ingredient decomposes fairly
quickly and that you should buy fresh powder annually. Do I
myself do this? No.

Me neither. I prefer powder too. Lasts for years and years:~)

I've also read commments (perhaps here in urg) that for most
plants, rooting hormones are an irrelevancy, so the potency or
impotency of one's hormone powder is also irrelevant.

Ah, it's the magical intention of the user that makes the useless
powder work.

We're having mild cloudy humid weather; cuttings are rooting at high
speed atm.

Janet.

"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message
...
gOn Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises
the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?

I think I've read that the active ingredient decomposes fairly
quickly and that you should buy fresh powder annually.

I had a feeling that that was the case.

Do I
myself do this? No.

Ditto.

I've also read commments (perhaps here in urg) that for most
plants, rooting hormones are an irrelevancy, so the potency or
impotency of one's hormone powder is also irrelevant.

My success rate with powder is markedly better than without.

Still, I use the stuff just in case, but as time goes on my
methods become more and more primitive. Right now I've got rose
cuttings underway, powdered and dibbled directly into the soil
with a glass jar over them, just like grandma used to do.

What'a so primitive about that?
I do it exactly like that, putting two cuttings close together under
the jar, inserted at the place I want the rose to grow. That spares
the rose the shock of being transplanted. Usually at least one of the
two root. And if neither take, so what, there's nothing lost.


(Never mind how long it had been on the shop shelves before I
bought
it)

Which is preferable, "Strike" powder or Bio "Roota" liquid?

I never had any luck at all with the various rooting-hormone
gels. The cuttings seemed to rot away almost instantly.

I'll stick to the powder then, unless some other urgler comes forth
with a watertight case for the gel stuff.

YMMV

What is "YMMV"?

Franz

In article , Franz Heymann
writes
The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?
(Never mind how long it had been on the shop shelves before I bought
it)

Which is preferable, "Strike" powder or Bio "Roota" liquid?

Forget them all together; don't waste your money.
They don't make a blind bit of difference.
If you take cuttings at the right time in the right place there is
absolutely no need to use root hormone. In fact using the stuff can have
adverse effects.

According to the RHS book on techniques
---------------------------------------

". . . a substance that sets fruits at one concentration and produces
roots on stem cuttings at another may be used as a weedkiller at yet
another. Thus it is exceedingly important to follow dosage instructions
exactly in order to obtain the desired results.
It is also important to realize that these chemicals do not
constitute a panacea for success: they will not induce rooting responses
if the inherent ability of the stem to produce roots is not present.
Their action is merely to enhance the innate capacity of the stem to
produce its roots both in greater quantities and quicker than might
otherwise have been the case. If the stem cutting is propagated from a
healthy plant and at the correct season, then the use of such hormones
is usually of no advantage whatsoever. They should be used with
knowledge, and only as and when they are likely to achieve an effect. .
.. . .
. . . it is important to understand one or two basic premises.
Firstly, that the concentration of hormone applied to induce root
formation is not the best concentration to cause root development.
Secondly, although the hormone may be absorbed through the bark, most of
the hormone will be taken up through the cut base of the stem cutting.
In actually applying the hormone therefore take care to touch
only the basal cut surface on to the powder so that no powder adheres to
the outside of the stem . . .
By applying the hormone the roots are induced to form, but if
they emerge and come into contact with the hormone still on the bark
this may cause the roots to die off. "

-------------

Years ago, when I first read this, I experimented by using rooting
powder for half my cuttings and none for the other half. There was
absolutely no difference in the success rate between the two methods.
For the layman, hormone rooting powder is a complete and utter con; just
another way of making money out of the poor gullible general public for
the big chemical companies (

And, quoting Rod Craddock, another urgler, -
Another thing which is not as widely known as it should be, obviously
you don't shout it too loud if you're selling the stuff is that it has
practically no shelf life, it's probably already past it's best when you
buy it and pretty well useless soon after you first open it.
I dabbled a bit with rooting hormones when propagating shrubs
commercially and found it very difficult to get consistent repeatable
results even though we mixed fresh solutions each time.

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

Like many others I also use rooting powder, and even if it does no good I am
sure that the fungicide in the powder does do some good.


--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

On 7/7/04 1:58 pm, in article , "David Hill"
wrote:

Like many others I also use rooting powder, and even if it does no good I am
sure that the fungicide in the powder does do some good.

Ditto, David. Ray uses it always. But perhaps nurseries use so much of it
that it has no time to outlive its shelf life?
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Like many others I also use rooting powder, and even if it does no
good I am
sure that the fungicide in the powder does do some good.

Putting together Jane and Davids notes, it sounds as if the best
regime is not to use a hormone at all, but to just dip the cutting
into a fungicide like Benlate.

I will try that.

Franz

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

"David Hill" wrote in message
...
Like many others I also use rooting powder, and even if it does no
good I am
sure that the fungicide in the powder does do some good.

Putting together Jane and Davids notes, it sounds as if the best
regime is not to use a hormone at all, but to just dip the cutting
into a fungicide like Benlate.

Franz, are you taking cuttings on a massive scale or do you just want a
few to replace stuff you have / give to friends? Because, if it is the
latter, don't waste your money on chemicals!! I take cuttings every year
from dozens of my plants, never use chemicals of any sort, and always
end up with far too many plants. I can't bear to put the excess on the
compost heap so the poor things end up in a cold frame, getting root
bound and eventually dying off (((((((
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

On Wed, 7 Jul 2004 05:25:24 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

big snip

What is "YMMV"?

Your Mileage May Vary :-)


--
Sally in Shropshire, UK
bed and breakfast near Ludlow: http://www.stonybrook-ludlow.co.uk
Reply To address is spam trap

"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
writes

"David Hill" wrote in
message
...
Like many others I also use rooting powder, and even if it does
no
good I am
sure that the fungicide in the powder does do some good.

Putting together Jane and Davids notes, it sounds as if the best
regime is not to use a hormone at all, but to just dip the cutting
into a fungicide like Benlate.

Franz, are you taking cuttings on a massive scale or do you just
want a
few to replace stuff you have / give to friends?

The latter. Mainly to maintain and on occasion increase my stock of
this and that.

Because, if it is the
latter, don't waste your money on chemicals!! I take cuttings every
year
from dozens of my plants, never use chemicals of any sort, and
always
end up with far too many plants. I can't bear to put the excess on
the
compost heap so the poor things end up in a cold frame, getting root
bound and eventually dying off (((((((

I'll do it systematically this year. Some with hormone, some with
hormone and Benlate, some with Benlate and some without anything.
My statistice won't be wonderful, but it will be interesting to see
the outcome.

Franz

"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message
...
gOn Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?

I think I've read that the active ingredient decomposes fairly
quickly and that you should buy fresh powder annually. Do I
myself do this? No.

I've also read commments (perhaps here in urg) that for most
plants, rooting hormones are an irrelevancy, so the potency or
impotency of one's hormone powder is also irrelevant.

Still, I use the stuff just in case, but as time goes on my
methods become more and more primitive. Right now I've got rose
cuttings underway, powdered and dibbled directly into the soil
with a glass jar over them, just like grandma used to do.

******

They'll grow, - but the purists don't like them. They tend to grow scraggly
and are not considered to be a success. Accepted way is to bud or graft
them in spring on Rosa canina (dog-rose) cuttings put in the soil the
previuos autumn. I've done that with hedge-rose cuttings and with fair
success. At back-end of the season here in N/West England there are plenty
of Garden Centre potted roses with immature roots which are the product of
the Growers end of season field clearance procedures. They are half-price
but are a good buy if you can abide a first year mediocre blooming. They've
been just stuffed into pots of peat. What I do is carefully tip them out
onto my hand and see which have thin white root tendrils starting to drift
down the outside of the clump, the later the day in spring, the more there
will be, - they have had more time to develop. These will be successful
the first year, the others are OK but will need more time. .
However also will be on sale well-rooted roses left over from last years
unsold well-rooted plants.
They are the current for-sale plants, but are twice the price of the
immature ones I referred to,
Which doesn'yworry little me, - I just , - yet again, - stop Her Indoor's
gin money for a couple of days.
It's usualy enough to cover all eventualities.
Doug.

******


(Never mind how long it had been on the shop shelves before I bought
it)

Which is preferable, "Strike" powder or Bio "Roota" liquid?

I never had any luck at all with the various rooting-hormone
gels. The cuttings seemed to rot away almost instantly.

YMMV


--
Rodger Whitlock
Victoria, British Columbia, Canada
[change "atlantic" to "pacific" and
"invalid" to "net" to reply by email]

"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message
...
gOn Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises
the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder
long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?

I think I've read that the active ingredient decomposes fairly
quickly and that you should buy fresh powder annually. Do I
myself do this? No.

I've also read commments (perhaps here in urg) that for most
plants, rooting hormones are an irrelevancy, so the potency or
impotency of one's hormone powder is also irrelevant.

Still, I use the stuff just in case, but as time goes on my
methods become more and more primitive. Right now I've got rose
cuttings underway, powdered and dibbled directly into the soil
with a glass jar over them, just like grandma used to do.

******

They'll grow, - but the purists don't like them.

Hard luck on the purists. I have grown roses satisfactorily from
cuttings for years and years. My impression is that the trade uses
budding mainly because they can get a larger number of offspring from
one stock plant that way.

[snip]

Franz

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

I'll do it systematically this year. Some with hormone, some with
hormone and Benlate, some with Benlate and some without anything.
My statistice won't be wonderful, but it will be interesting to see
the outcome.

I can tell you what the outcome will be right now ))
--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Douglas" wrote in message
...

"Rodger Whitlock" wrote in message
...
gOn Tue, 6 Jul 2004 08:28:14 +0000 (UTC), Franz Heymann wrote:

The time for taking summer cuttings is approaching. This raises
the
perennial questions which bother me at this time of the year:

Is the shelf life of last year's purchase of "Strike" powder
long
enough for me to risk using it again this year?

I think I've read that the active ingredient decomposes fairly
quickly and that you should buy fresh powder annually. Do I
myself do this? No.

I've also read commments (perhaps here in urg) that for most
plants, rooting hormones are an irrelevancy, so the potency or
impotency of one's hormone powder is also irrelevant.

Still, I use the stuff just in case, but as time goes on my
methods become more and more primitive. Right now I've got rose
cuttings underway, powdered and dibbled directly into the soil
with a glass jar over them, just like grandma used to do.

******

They'll grow, - but the purists don't like them.

Hard luck on the purists. I have grown roses satisfactorily from
cuttings for years and years. My impression is that the trade uses
budding mainly because they can get a larger number of offspring from
one stock plant that way.

[snip]

Franz
******
In friendy spirit,
I have to disagree. Budding and grafting usually puts three scions on to one
rootstock and done properly they all prosper and form an acceptable show of
branches from which the usual bush develops. You therefore have control over
the plant and that control derives from the rootstock characteristics, one
of which is of course 'dwarfing'.
This is especially important for fruit trees because the rootstock
determines the ultimate growth and therefore the fruiting possibilities.
For fruiting we have to have at first the flowers for the usual pollination
which governs the harvest in the final event. Of course judicious and
correct pruning at the two proper seasons contributes in no small manner.
I have found that simply sticking a rose cutting into soil may certainly
cause it to take root, but the bush tends to go a bit wild and straggly no
matter how it is pruned.
It's a question of control and I can explain it better by saying that I have
many roses, but I can illustrate my thinking by saying that I have different
types of rose plants,.
1. Small hybrid T types.
2. Floribundas.
3. Ramblers.
4. Climbers.
5, Standards.
6. Tree Rose. A rose Tree about twelve feet high, on one bole (or trunk) and
a large spread of branches
which at the moment are ablaze with about a hundred large rose flowers.
All have been budded or grafted.
The point here is that the scions are attached at different heights, the HT
at about four inches up the rootstock, the standards at about a yard up and
the tree at 12 feet up on the top of the stock (bole or trunk).
By using simple cuttings you are restricted to only one style of rose bush
or tree.
Rootstocks also seem to ensure much vigour for a longer time, in my opinion,
if the pruning is carried out correctly.
Doug.