Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with ants under my
patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming uneven as the little "things"
are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but first would
like to find out how to totally erradicate the little "things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays... still the
little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????

TIA

--
McPloppy ©

{ Remove both MyShoes to email me }
{ Homepage: http://tinyurl.com/bbel }
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"Mcploppy ©" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with ants under
my
patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming uneven as the little
"things"
are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but first would
like to find out how to totally erradicate the little "things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays... still the
little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????


I suggest that even if you were able to eliminate every ant's nest on your
property, it would be recolonised before too long. If you were to cast your
patio from concrete rather than laying down slabs, the ants would find it
much more difficult to undermine the construction.

Mcploppy © wrote:
:: Hi All,
::
:: For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with ants
:: under my patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming uneven as
:: the little "things" are erroding the base away.
::
:: I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but first
:: would like to find out how to totally erradicate the little
:: "things".
::
:: Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays...
:: still the little "things" keep coming back.
::
:: Suggestions ????
::
:: TIA

When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and sprinkle in a
few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to mix water with it, there's
enough in the sand.
Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto the bed, do'nt
use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves voids underneth each flag,
moreover, this blobbing is no good IMV (I lay drives for a living) as the
rain will simply wash the sand from underneath the solid blobs leaving each
flag rocking...simply lay them on a dry sand/cement mix and the overall
effect will be a semi-solid bed with flags on top.
You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but they will be
much smaller nests and will be unable to make much of a dent on the
foundation.


HTH

[1]
one bag of cement should cover about 8sq metres, mixed into a 50mm bed of
sand(don't worry about it not being mixed evenly - as long as the top inch
has /some/ cement in it, then it will set quite hard)

Phil L typed:
Mcploppy © wrote:
Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with ants
under my patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming uneven as
the little "things" are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but first
would like to find out how to totally erradicate the little
"things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays...
still the little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????

TIA

When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to mix
water with it, there's enough in the sand.
Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto the
bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves voids
underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good IMV (I lay
drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash the sand from
underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag rocking...simply lay
them on a dry sand/cement mix and the overall effect will be a
semi-solid bed with flags on top.
You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but they will
be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much of a dent on the
foundation.


HTH

[1]
one bag of cement should cover about 8sq metres, mixed into a 50mm
bed of sand(don't worry about it not being mixed evenly - as long as
the top inch has /some/ cement in it, then it will set quite hard)

Excellent..... fancy a job :-s

The thought of lifting the slabs does not fill me with excitement.... but it
has to be done.

Cheers
--
McPloppy ©

{ Remove both MyShoes to email me }
{ Homepage: http://tinyurl.com/bbel }
{ Local Radio: http://tinyurl.com/j1vi }
{ My Alternative Site: http://tinyurl.com/rynb }

Mcploppy © wrote:
Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with
ants under my patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming
uneven as the little "things" are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but
first would like to find out how to totally erradicate the
little "things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays...
still the little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????

TIA


Either lay the patio on a mortar bed (preferred) or mix in a small amount of
cement (10:1 ratio) to stabilise the sand

Also water the while area with a 20:1 armillatox mix - not to kill the ants
of course, that would be off label and illegal, but just to make sure the
soil is nicely washed and clean (;-). Also, the little buggers like to keep
their nests clean and appreciate a few drops of neat armillatox at the
entrance hole that they can take inside to their friends.


--
---

PK

---

Mcploppy © wrote:
:: Phil L typed:
::: Mcploppy © wrote:
::::: Hi All,
:::::
::::: For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with
::::: ants under my patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming
::::: uneven as the little "things" are erroding the base away.
:::::
::::: I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but
::::: first would like to find out how to totally erradicate the
::::: little "things".
:::::
::::: Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays...
::::: still the little "things" keep coming back.
:::::
::::: Suggestions ????
:::::
::::: TIA
:::
::: When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
::: sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to mix
::: water with it, there's enough in the sand.
::: Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto the
::: bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves voids
::: underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good IMV (I lay
::: drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash the sand from
::: underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag rocking...simply lay
::: them on a dry sand/cement mix and the overall effect will be a
::: semi-solid bed with flags on top.
::: You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but they
::: will be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much of a
::: dent on the foundation.
:::
:::
::: HTH
:::
::: [1]
::: one bag of cement should cover about 8sq metres, mixed into a 50mm
::: bed of sand(don't worry about it not being mixed evenly - as long
::: as the top inch has /some/ cement in it, then it will set quite
::: hard)
::
:: Excellent..... fancy a job :-s
::
:: The thought of lifting the slabs does not fill me with
:: excitement.... but it has to be done.
::
You're better off getting all the slabs lifted and cleaned in one go, they
should't be to heavy if they are less than about 15 years old, newer patio
flags are quite thin, prior to this normal paving slabs were used, usually
about 50mm thick, if these are what you are working with, then you will
definately need someone to help you.

Just set yourself a reasonable target each day, lay about ten slabs in each
session, you'll be surprised how quick it gets done...out of interest, how
big is the total area?...how big are the flags?

Phil L typed:
Mcploppy © wrote:
Phil L typed:
Mcploppy © wrote:
Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with
ants under my patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming
uneven as the little "things" are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but
first would like to find out how to totally erradicate the
little "things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays...
still the little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????

TIA

When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to mix
water with it, there's enough in the sand.
Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto the
bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves voids
underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good IMV (I lay
drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash the sand from
underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag rocking...simply lay
them on a dry sand/cement mix and the overall effect will be a
semi-solid bed with flags on top.
You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but they
will be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much of a
dent on the foundation.


HTH

[1]
one bag of cement should cover about 8sq metres, mixed into a 50mm
bed of sand(don't worry about it not being mixed evenly - as long
as the top inch has /some/ cement in it, then it will set quite
hard)

Excellent..... fancy a job :-s

The thought of lifting the slabs does not fill me with
excitement.... but it has to be done.

You're better off getting all the slabs lifted and cleaned in one go,
they should't be to heavy if they are less than about 15 years old,
newer patio flags are quite thin, prior to this normal paving slabs
were used, usually about 50mm thick, if these are what you are
working with, then you will definately need someone to help you.

Just set yourself a reasonable target each day, lay about ten slabs
in each session, you'll be surprised how quick it gets done...out of
interest, how big is the total area?...how big are the flags?

Well the flags ar more than 15 years old infact nearer 30 ;-)

The sizes .... 60M Square - 600x600 and 900x600 slabs approx
--
McPloppy ©

{ Remove both MyShoes to email me }
{ Homepage: http://tinyurl.com/bbel }
{ Local Radio: http://tinyurl.com/j1vi }
{ My Alternative Site: http://tinyurl.com/rynb }

Phil L wrote:

When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to
mix water with it, there's enough in the sand.
Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto
the bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves
voids underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good
IMV (I lay drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash
the sand from underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag
rocking...simply lay them on a dry sand/cement mix and the
overall effect will be a semi-solid bed with flags on top.
You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but
they will be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much
of a dent on the foundation.


Agree with all that, but there is a common misconception about the "5-spot"
method of laying slabs.

As you recommend, the full bed dry sand/cement method is by far the best,
but can be difficult for the amateur as the bed need to be evenly compacted
and levelling the slabs can be a real bind. Too much or too little bedding
and you have to lift the slab out again. It is a far more skilled job than
it might look.

The "5-spot method" is easier for the amateur as the blobs can be set high
and the slabs gently tapped down to the correct level. BUT, and it is and
important BUT, we are not talking airy fairy fist sized blobs, but big spade
sized blobs that effectively meet in the centre of the slab as it is
levelled down. the net effect is a nearly-full bed of wet mortar.

All professionals I know use the dry or semi dry method.

pk

Mcploppy © wrote:
The sizes .... 60M Square - 600x600 and 900x600 slabs approx


At the risk of stating the blindingly obvious: the 900*600 will be b******
heavy

--
---

PK

---

PK wrote:
:: Phil L wrote:
:::
::: When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
::: sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to
::: mix water with it, there's enough in the sand.
::: Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto
::: the bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves
::: voids underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good
::: IMV (I lay drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash
::: the sand from underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag
::: rocking...simply lay them on a dry sand/cement mix and the
::: overall effect will be a semi-solid bed with flags on top.
::: You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but
::: they will be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much
::: of a dent on the foundation.
::
::
:: Agree with all that, but there is a common misconception about the
:: "5-spot" method of laying slabs.
::
:: As you recommend, the full bed dry sand/cement method is by far
:: the best, but can be difficult for the amateur as the bed need to
:: be evenly compacted and levelling the slabs can be a real bind.
:: Too much or too little bedding and you have to lift the slab out
:: again. It is a far more skilled job than it might look.
::
You are indeed correct - I never thought that it may be more than a little
tricky for 'beginners'.

:: The "5-spot method" is easier for the amateur as the blobs can be
:: set high and the slabs gently tapped down to the correct level.
:: BUT, and it is and important BUT, we are not talking airy fairy
:: fist sized blobs, but big spade sized blobs that effectively meet
:: in the centre of the slab as it is levelled down. the net effect
:: is a nearly-full bed of wet mortar.
::
:: All professionals I know use the dry or semi dry method.
::
:: pk

I agree, but he will need a *lot* of sand and cement mixing to do it this
way, which adds expense and time to the job...it may work out cheaper just
to get someone in to do it, although for such a project, my prices would
work out at approximately £20 per square metre...he may find someone cheaper
locally.

I use the cleaning powder "Comet or Ajax" to get rid of them around my home,
both of them have bleach in them.
Plus it doesn't hurt plants either.


--


"And for the second time in four million years, the monolith awoke."
Arthur C.Clarke 2062dyssey three

SIAR
www.starlords.org
Telescope Buyers FAQ
http://home.inreach.com/starlord
Bishop's Car Fund
http://www.bishopcarfund.netfirms.com/

"Mcploppy ©" wrote in message
...
Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with ants under
my
patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming uneven as the little
"things"
are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but first would
like to find out how to totally erradicate the little "things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and sprays... still the
little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????

TIA

--
McPloppy ©

{ Remove both MyShoes to email me }
{ Homepage: http://tinyurl.com/bbel }
{ Local Radio: http://tinyurl.com/j1vi }
{ My Alternative Site: http://tinyurl.com/rynb }




---
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"Phil L" wrote in message
.. .
PK wrote:
SNIP

I agree, but he will need a *lot* of sand and cement mixing to do it this
way, which adds expense and time to the job...it may work out cheaper just
to get someone in to do it, although for such a project, my prices would
work out at approximately £20 per square metre...he may find someone
cheaper
locally.



Current BCIS guideprice for removing and replacing level paving with 50mm
precast concrete flags is just over £40/m2 excluding VAT, including all
necessary excavation, sub-base, etc. Assuming his 60 metres square means 60
m2, that's a tidy sum. Mind you, if he means 60 metres by 60 metres, that's
the best part of an acre, and it would be damned expensive.

"Mcploppy ©" wrote in message
...

Phil L typed:
Mcploppy © wrote:
Phil L typed:
Mcploppy © wrote:
Hi All,

For the past few years I hve been having a lot of bother with
ants under my patio, the result is now my slabs are becoming
uneven as the little "things" are erroding the base away.

I intend to lift the slabs and relay the entire patio... but
first would like to find out how to totally erradicate the
little "things".

Over the years I have used many different powders and
sprays...
still the little "things" keep coming back.

Suggestions ????

TIA

When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to
mix
water with it, there's enough in the sand.
Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto
the
bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves voids
underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good IMV (I
lay
drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash the sand from
underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag rocking...simply
lay
them on a dry sand/cement mix and the overall effect will be a
semi-solid bed with flags on top.
You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but
they
will be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much of a
dent on the foundation.


HTH

[1]
one bag of cement should cover about 8sq metres, mixed into a
50mm
bed of sand(don't worry about it not being mixed evenly - as
long
as the top inch has /some/ cement in it, then it will set quite
hard)

Excellent..... fancy a job :-s

The thought of lifting the slabs does not fill me with
excitement.... but it has to be done.

You're better off getting all the slabs lifted and cleaned in one
go,
they should't be to heavy if they are less than about 15 years
old,
newer patio flags are quite thin, prior to this normal paving
slabs
were used, usually about 50mm thick, if these are what you are
working with, then you will definately need someone to help you.

Just set yourself a reasonable target each day, lay about ten
slabs
in each session, you'll be surprised how quick it gets done...out
of
interest, how big is the total area?...how big are the flags?

Well the flags ar more than 15 years old infact nearer 30 ;-)

The sizes .... 60M Square - 600x600 and 900x600 slabs approx

Wow!
60 M square makes 3600 square metres. Even if all your slabs were of
the larger size of
0.9 metres x 0.6 metres, you would appear to have to deal with around
7,000 slabs. I reckon you will need a gang of 10 if you want the job
to be finished in a reasonable time.
{:-))

Franz

"Phil L" wrote in message
.. .
PK wrote:
:: Phil L wrote:
:::
::: When you come to relay the flags, rake the sand base level and
::: sprinkle in a few shovel fulls of cement,[1] you don't need to
::: mix water with it, there's enough in the sand.
::: Rake it in to mix it up a bit and lay the flags directly onto
::: the bed, do'nt use 'blobs' of sand/cement as this just leaves
::: voids underneth each flag, moreover, this blobbing is no good
::: IMV (I lay drives for a living) as the rain will simply wash
::: the sand from underneath the solid blobs leaving each flag
::: rocking...simply lay them on a dry sand/cement mix and the
::: overall effect will be a semi-solid bed with flags on top.
::: You will still get colonies of ants taking up residence but
::: they will be much smaller nests and will be unable to make much
::: of a dent on the foundation.
::
::
:: Agree with all that, but there is a common misconception about
the
:: "5-spot" method of laying slabs.
::
:: As you recommend, the full bed dry sand/cement method is by far
:: the best, but can be difficult for the amateur as the bed need to
:: be evenly compacted and levelling the slabs can be a real bind.
:: Too much or too little bedding and you have to lift the slab out
:: again. It is a far more skilled job than it might look.
::
You are indeed correct - I never thought that it may be more than a
little
tricky for 'beginners'.

:: The "5-spot method" is easier for the amateur as the blobs can be
:: set high and the slabs gently tapped down to the correct level.
:: BUT, and it is and important BUT, we are not talking airy fairy
:: fist sized blobs, but big spade sized blobs that effectively meet
:: in the centre of the slab as it is levelled down. the net effect
:: is a nearly-full bed of wet mortar.
::
:: All professionals I know use the dry or semi dry method.
::
:: pk

I agree, but he will need a *lot* of sand and cement mixing to do it
this
way, which adds expense and time to the job...it may work out
cheaper just
to get someone in to do it, although for such a project, my prices
would
work out at approximately £20 per square metre...he may find someone
cheaper
locally.

At 60 m square, as the OP claims the size to be, that will cost him a
cool £72000.

Franz

"BAC" wrote in message
...

"Phil L" wrote in message
.. .
PK wrote:
SNIP

I agree, but he will need a *lot* of sand and cement mixing to do
it this
way, which adds expense and time to the job...it may work out
cheaper just
to get someone in to do it, although for such a project, my prices
would
work out at approximately £20 per square metre...he may find
someone
cheaper
locally.



Current BCIS guideprice for removing and replacing level paving with
50mm

500 mm?

precast concrete flags is just over £40/m2 excluding VAT, including
all
necessary excavation, sub-base, etc. Assuming his 60 metres square
means 60
m2, that's a tidy sum. Mind you, if he means 60 metres by 60 metres,
that's
the best part of an acre, and it would be damned expensive.