Des Higgins wrote:

Does it have triangular cross-section stems?
If so it is an intreoduced garlic called Allium triquetrum which is very
invasive ok.

The 'Three-cornered Leek' is exceptionally well established in well
drained soils around the coasts of Devon and Cornwall - especially in
the south. In the UK, the spread is by tiny bulbils and not seed and
I suspect that our spring and early summer weather is too cool to
enable pollination to take place. It can develop huge colonies in dry
hedge rows and close to stone walls, flowering profusely in early
summer. It is possibly the plant that is causing problems, although
it is unlikely to make great colonies further inland or north -
especially away from the coast.

Ransoms (Allium ursinum) is essentially a plant of shaded, humus rich,
woodland soils tending to remain in the southern part of the country
and not extending much further north than southern Shropshire in the
west and Lincolnshire in the north. However, the recent spate of very
mild winters may have encouraged it to spread further. I've never
know it to recommence growth after dying down in early-mid summer -
even when the bulbs are lifted and replanted.

Ironically, it can be a bit tricky to cultivate well (we are looking
to start trials with using extracts to act as natural, 'organic'
fungicides). Even more ironically, it appears to suffer boytritus, if
grown intensively for a few years - especially if 'field grown' in
open situations on well drained or dryish soils. It does not like
prolonged direct sunlight - in the south at least.

BTW, in recent years 'enlightened' restaurateurs have discovered the
very considerable culinary virtues of Ramsoms - especially the young
unfolding leaves and cropping them before flowering substantially
weakens the bulbs. New growth rarely re-appears for that year and in
a couple of seasons, the colony can be virtually wiped out. We're
considering establishing it further in our orchards so that it can be
added to our 'hot' salad packs that are locally very popular.


Dave Poole
Torquay, Coastal South Devon UK
Winter min -2°C. Summer max 34°C.
Growing season: March - November

Dave Poole wrote:
Des Higgins wrote:

Does it have triangular cross-section stems?
If so it is an intreoduced garlic called Allium triquetrum which
is
very invasive ok.

The 'Three-cornered Leek' is exceptionally well established in well
drained soils around the coasts of Devon and Cornwall - especially
in
the south.[...] it is unlikely to make great colonies further
inland or north -
especially away from the coast.

Spot on.

Ransoms (Allium ursinum) is essentially a plant of shaded, humus
rich,
woodland soils tending to remain in the southern part of the
country
and not extending much further north than southern Shropshire in
the
west and Lincolnshire in the north.

Let us, however, pause in silent tribute to the notable colony which
much once have flourished to give a melodious name to that part of
Greater Manchester known as Ramsbottom.

However, the recent spate of very
mild winters may have encouraged it to spread further. I've never
know it to recommence growth after dying down in early-mid summer -
even when the bulbs are lifted and replanted.

Ironically, it can be a bit tricky to cultivate well [...]

I planted ramsons in humus-rich soil on a shady north-facing stream
bank in Carmarthenshire, and it got on like a house on fire. It
really does need those conditions if you want a lot of it. I wonder,
is there another crop you grow which could provide the shade? Or if
you have a lot of east-west hedge?

Mike.

Well first of all thank you everyone for the replies.

Yes the stems are indeed 3-cornered (or triangular).

I have taken some pics, where you can see how it has absolutely taken over the lawn and borders.

http://www.xp5.co.uk/garlick

I live in South Devon BTW.

In article , loop loop.1ghbnn@news
..gardenbanter.co.uk writes




Well first of all thank you everyone for the replies.

Yes the stems are indeed 3-cornered (or triangular).

I have taken some pics, where you can see how it has absolutely taken
over the lawn and borders.

http://www.xp5.co.uk/garlick

LOL
Yes, I can see why you're concerned!

I live in South Devon BTW.

Move to Yorkshire - it's not a problem here ;-)
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Kay wrote:
In article , loop
loop.1ghbnn@news .gardenbanter.co.uk writes




Well first of all thank you everyone for the replies.

Yes the stems are indeed 3-cornered (or triangular).

I have taken some pics, where you can see how it has absolutely
taken
over the lawn and borders.

http://www.xp5.co.uk/garlick

LOL
Yes, I can see why you're concerned!

I live in South Devon BTW.

Move to Yorkshire - it's not a problem here ;-)

What a wonderful sight! Yes, I sympathise, though I love the plant.

I wonder if it would be feasible for you to _sell_ your
three-cornered leeks? Or, instead of getting money, swap them for the
work: maybe get a local charity to come and dig them out to sell for
their funds? Perhaps the local Conservation Volunteers have a home
crying out for them. There's a couple of hundred quid's worth there,
I reckon, if a market can be found -- which it usually can't, of
course.

Mike.

are the pictures good enough to answer the previous queries?

"loop" wrote in message
...

snip

Well first of all thank you everyone for the replies.

Yes the stems are indeed 3-cornered (or triangular).

I have taken some pics, where you can see how it has absolutely
taken
over the lawn and borders.

http://www.xp5.co.uk/garlick

I live in South Devon BTW.

I think someone has been neglecting the weeding. ;-))

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 12.11.2004

On Mon, 29 Nov 2004 10:01:22 +0000, loop
wrote:

~
~Mike Lyle Wrote:
~ Dave Poole wrote:-
~ Des Higgins wrote:
~ -
~ Does it have triangular cross-section stems?
~ If so it is an intreoduced garlic called Allium triquetrum which--
~ is--
~ very invasive ok.-
~
~ The 'Three-cornered Leek' is exceptionally well established in well
~ drained soils around the coasts of Devon and Cornwall - especially-
~ in-
~ the south.[...] it is unlikely to make great colonies further-
~ inland or north --
~ especially away from the coast.-
~
~ Spot on.-
~
~ Ransoms (Allium ursinum) is essentially a plant of shaded, humus-
~ rich,-
~ woodland soils tending to remain in the southern part of the-
~ country-
~ and not extending much further north than southern Shropshire in-
~ the-
~ west and Lincolnshire in the north.-

I used to walk home from school through a woodland filled with
ramsons, in NE Derbyshire just out of the peak district so it wasn't
exactly warm in winter. Boy did they pong! But they are undeniably
pretty, especially in massed numbers.

~ Let us, however, pause in silent tribute to the notable colony which
~ much once have flourished to give a melodious name to that part of
~ Greater Manchester known as Ramsbottom.
~ -
~ However, the recent spate of very
~ mild winters may have encouraged it to spread further. I've never
~ know it to recommence growth after dying down in early-mid summer -
~ even when the bulbs are lifted and replanted.
~
~ Ironically, it can be a bit tricky to cultivate well [...]-
~
~ I planted ramsons in humus-rich soil on a shady north-facing stream
~ bank in Carmarthenshire, and it got on like a house on fire. It
~ really does need those conditions if you want a lot of it. I wonder,
~ is there another crop you grow which could provide the shade? Or if
~ you have a lot of east-west hedge?
~
~ Mike.
~
~Well first of all thank you everyone for the replies.
~
~Yes the stems are indeed 3-cornered (or triangular).
~
~I have taken some pics, where you can see how it has absolutely taken
~over the lawn and borders.
~
~http://www.xp5.co.uk/garlick
~

Wow - that is a fantastic sight - healthy plants, enjoying a nice
cultivated spot... of course the plant viewpoint is somewhat different
to yours! Congratulations and commiserations on having grown such a
colony, however accidental. I suspect forks, bin liners and a team of
volunteers would be the best solution, though given how it's getting
through the paving stones, a herbicide may well be needed too. And
cutting off all the flowers so they can't seed...

Is it in your neighbours' gardens too?

The next question is to find out what cultivated bulbs like the same
conditions for when you get shot of them!

Good luck!


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

Is there any possibility of somebody advising me on how to tackle this problem?

In article , loop loop.1gjbvm@news
..gardenbanter.co.uk writes


Is there any possibility of somebody advising me on how to tackle this
problem?

I thought we already had - pull it all up, then keep pulling any
regrowth.

And regular mowing of the lawn should sort that bit eventually.
You can glyphosate the whole lot, and that would kill everything whose
leaves it touched. Then don't rotavate - I imagine that was a very
successful means of spreading viable bits of plant through the whole
garden.
--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Thank-you Jane for the reply.

I think we are beyond pulling them up as we tried that last year and it hasn't helped (as you can see), also it is hard to pull them up with bulb intact as they are so rooted they snap.

We are the only garden suffering from this, but they are rampant on all 3 of our gardens, and are growing from every crack in every pathway around the house

Is there a permanent (but safe for pets and kids) weedkiller solution that will work? Something fairly fast that'll kill root deep? And will prevent the same from happening again? I have refrained from mowing/cutting as I thought that the said weedkiller may need to be absorbed through the leaves.

Thanks

~ Ransoms (Allium ursinum) is essentially a plant of shaded, humus-
~ rich, woodland soils tending to remain in the southern part of the
~ country and not extending much further north than southern Shropshire in
~ the- west and Lincolnshire in the north.-

It must be the soil limiting their distribution, because they're certainly
hardy plants, growing widely throughout Austria where winters are pretty
hard.
--
Tim C.

loop wrote:
[...]
Is there a permanent (but safe for pets and kids) weedkiller
solution
that will work? Something fairly fast that'll kill root deep? And
will
prevent the same from happening again? I have refrained from
mowing/cutting as I thought that the said weedkiller may need to be
absorbed through the leaves.

My suggestion of inviting a charity to come in and dig them up for
their own purposes was perfectly serious. The delay in people giving
you direct replies was just because there was a delay in identifying
the plant, not because we weren't taking you seriously.

If you prefer simply to knock them out, then glyphosate properly used
will be harmless. Yes, it should be applied when the leaves are
developed and the plant is in full growth; but for now there's
nothing wrong with mowing, if they're still in leaf. I'm not
convinced that a standard lawn weedkiller will work for you, so it's
a case of kill the lot and resow with lawn seed.

There will be some seeds or maybe bulbils left behind after the
weedkiller has killed off the plants; but mowing will stop them. For
the flowerbeds it'll be a case of hand-weeding for a year or two; but
I'd suggest leaving a few clumps in the beds, as they're fine plants
when they know their place.

Mike.

Thanks Mike,

Sorry if my replies are 'out of sinc' I am not used to this layout.

Are you saying now is not a good time to use glyphosate?

Cheers

Loop

In article 1101827638.oel8FL0SkfjHC0YNAvJjXA@teranews, Tim Challenger
writes
~ Ransoms (Allium ursinum) is essentially a plant of shaded, humus-
~ rich, woodland soils tending to remain in the southern part of the
~ country and not extending much further north than southern Shropshire in
~ the- west and Lincolnshire in the north.-

It must be the soil limiting their distribution, because they're certainly
hardy plants, growing widely throughout Austria where winters are pretty
hard.

Fitter et al 'Wild Flower of Britain and Ireland' shows them to be
distributed all across the British isles with the exceptions of part of
E Anglia, some parts of the northern Scottish Highlands and parts of
Ireland. It's also listed in Arnold 'Wild Flowers of the Yorkshire
Dales' and listed as 'general, abundant' in Cunningham and Kenneth " the
Flora of Kintyre"


--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"