"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you didn't
even bother asking.

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Jen

Jen wrote:
"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it takes to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.
The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while shaving
or brushing your teeth.
A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to run water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns. I'm just
shocked that people still do these things.

Jen


I reckon he's been playing peeping tom, who ever said that. How the heck
would he know?
But its a bit ridiculous to tell the populace en masse how they should
conserve even more water, when we are doing better (as stated by the
government figures) than they had hoped.
Its a little political soap box grand standing by a public servant who
does not have any idea that saving water in a dam is going to come in
mighty handy in the future. Also we should restrict the population
migration to sustainability figures till the drought (that some people
who have little grasp of statistics tell us isn't happening) is over.

"Ms Leebee" wrote in message
...
meeee wrote:


In my area, people have become more water wise; the Cairns council
has us on permanent sprinkler restrictions

I haven't seen a sprinkler in use for YEARS. They're a bit horse'n'cart
these days, aren't they ?

oh hang on ... people have sprinkler SYSTEMS now, don't they ? Not as
easy to spot as a whirley-gigger attached to a hose plonked in the middle
of the lawn



yep, the ole sprinkler we used to run through are pretty much gone now.

I,m very lucky up here near ballina as we have a bore, produces 5000 gallons
per hour, is there any chance of a bore where you are?

Steve

meeee wrote:

oh hang on ... people have sprinkler SYSTEMS now, don't they ? Not as
easy to spot as a whirley-gigger attached to a hose plonked in the middle
of the lawn


yep, the ole sprinkler we used to run through are pretty much gone now.


I bought one of those old backward & forward sprinklers earlier this
year when we put down an acre of lawn seed. (I'm not mad about lawns
but we had to, it was one big dust bowl.) But then, we're not running
off mains water - it came out of our tank.

I'm so glad hubby and his cousin (who did the external plumbing &
treatment plant for our new place) heeded their old (former farmer)
grandmother's advice of "you can never have enough water" and the cousin
got us to put in the biggest tank we could afford - 98,000 litres.

"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in
message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and
it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it
takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to
run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns.
I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you
didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Yes. Exactly my point.

"0tterbot" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message

who just haven't got the first idea about anything! but the onus
is
on
country people to stop whingeing & educate them. the two lots are
entirely
interdependent, but you wouldn't know that from observing them.

Having lived in the country for the majority of my life, I
strongly
think that country people have more idea of the interdependance
and
the realities of life than city people do. We've been in drought
for
6 whole years but it is only now that the major metro papers seem
to
have woken up about it and only then because the cost of food is
really going to bite the city residents.

as a regular reader of city papers (and ex-city dweller), that's not
really
so, actually. it's probably fair to say that all individuals have
now woken
up to the problem all of a sudden. as an issue, it's just _exploded_
recently, and equally for everyone. i mean, sydney people (and those
in
other places) have been experiencing the reality of water shortages
for 5
years, haven't they?

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

the fact that most of them don't grow primary produce
only means that for them the situation isn't _dire_ in terms of
livelihood
in the short term; but they have been well aware of it for quite
some time
city peeps are generally better-educated

????? Not in my experience. They know a lot about some things and
naff all about other things.

and have a much broader view of the
world,

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything handed
to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with innovative or
real life solutions or have to spend time thinking about things that
country people do. This country approach I have always found flows
over into broader mainstream approaches to world politics and foreign
affairs.

their world is just bigger than ours is.

Busier I've found but not bigger. In fact I've always been astounded
at how restricted are the lives of Sydney people in particular.

i believe it's equally
impossible for most country people to have any idea of what's really
going
on in the rest of the country. certainly the media is more
accessible, but
it seems to matter less when it's a long way away - it seems a
problem
removed, but it's not (as we all live here together).

????? I know of farmers who know of what is going on in other parts
of the rural world across the country.

Lord knows where they
thought (if they did think at all) of where their food came from.

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in the
sydney
basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway). again, it seems to take a
crisis
(farmland possibly being taken away for development) for people to
realise
what might be lost. argh!

Not so! You have either not been out of the city long enough or have
just proved my point about where city people think their food comes
from.

Water and how much of it is available has really been much lower
down
the agenda because in comparison to the country, our major cities
are
relativeley well supplied and taking it from miles and miles away
into
the cities..

a critical mass of people gives benefits, that's true. many services
iin the
country are crap - it's not just a water thing. (sigh). we don't
exist, you
know ;-)

Well certainly not for the Iemma or federal governments..

They've been doing soemthing about it for many more than 5 years
with
a few exceptions (like Cubbie).

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe
were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and
very
conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land.

that's a good point you make unintentionally

My point was intentional.

- one problem that both farmers
(as a group, not individually - i'm being very general) and
"greenies" have
is seeing the other side as the enemy,

You are talking in generalisations and it is only the case for some
farmers.

when _really_ they're obviously on
the same side. but farmers will NOT accept something a greenie
said - the
farmer's association has to say it, & _then_ it's true. anyone can
be undone
by their own limited world-view, both farmers & ecologists are no
exception.
and yet, "green" farmers are fully accepted (by all parties) on
their
results, and so many ecological issues are now entirely mainstream
anyway,
so why is there not more cooperation and dialogue? it's not green
groups
refusing to speak to farmers, that's for sure! it's just both sides
not
thinking about who their allies really are.

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.

"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
...
"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in
message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth and
it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it
takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to
run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns.
I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you
didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Yes. Exactly my point.



That doesn't make sense. There was no question to ask!

In article ,
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

Frankly, you don't either. Talk to a Sudanese refugee some time. It's all a
matter of degree.

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything handed
to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with innovative or
real life solutions or have to spend time thinking about things that
country people do. This country approach I have always found flows
over into broader mainstream approaches to world politics and foreign
affairs.

Contry people being well-known for the speed with which they embrace change...

Lord knows where they
thought (if they did think at all) of where their food came from.

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in the
sydney basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway). again, it seems to take a
crisis (farmland possibly being taken away for development) for people to
realise what might be lost. argh!

Not so! You have either not been out of the city long enough or have
just proved my point about where city people think their food comes
from.

Depends exactly what Otterbot means.

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important, particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney basin is
worth $1 billion.'

There are still plenty of orchards on the fringes of Sydney, though not as
many as there used to be. I remember going up to Bilpin to get fresh peaches
when I was a kid. Yum...

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the greenhouse effect.

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.

http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park. Unfortunately the author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Google PA Yeomans for the goss on him.

--
Chookie -- Sydney, Australia
(Replace "foulspambegone" with "optushome" to reply)

"Parenthood is like the modern stone washing process for denim jeans. You may
start out crisp, neat and tough, but you end up pale, limp and wrinkled."
Kerry Cue

Chookie wrote:

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

Umm, that doesn't count for much. I always run my farm based on what a
Professor of sociology tells me. I am also quick to follow the spruiking
of someone hammering their own career. you have to remember that the
career of an academic includes "publish or perish".

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important, particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Egg production isn't agriculture in my books. It is a highy
industrialised process and utilises a highly processed feed stock. If
you remove the electricity supply, chickens start dieing real fast.


Unfortunately, the boxes of goods at the market do not reflect this 90%.
I suspect that the good old prof has drawn a very fine line as to what
are "perishable vegetables" and is probably thinking things like some
chinese veges, etc.


Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney basin is
worth $1 billion.'

Over what period? A year? Works out to be $1.40 per person per day,
which is not much.

And what do they define as agriculture?
Does this "agriculture" include nurseries for example?



There are still plenty of orchards on the fringes of Sydney, though not as
many as there used to be. I remember going up to Bilpin to get fresh peaches
when I was a kid. Yum...

Lol, you want to watch what you buy at those places. Often they bring it
in from outside.

I know that orange orchards towars the north have taken a hammering over
the last few decades.


Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the greenhouse effect.


I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans. He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s. The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All that
knowledge was around even then.


http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park. Unfortunately the author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book from 1958.

"Linda H" wrote in message
...
meeee wrote:

oh hang on ... people have sprinkler SYSTEMS now, don't they ? Not as
easy to spot as a whirley-gigger attached to a hose plonked in the middle
of the lawn


yep, the ole sprinkler we used to run through are pretty much gone now.


I bought one of those old backward & forward sprinklers earlier this year
when we put down an acre of lawn seed. (I'm not mad about lawns but we
had to, it was one big dust bowl.) But then, we're not running off mains
water - it came out of our tank.

I'm so glad hubby and his cousin (who did the external plumbing &
treatment plant for our new place) heeded their old (former farmer)
grandmother's advice of "you can never have enough water" and the cousin
got us to put in the biggest tank we could afford - 98,000 litres.


wow that was a very wise decision.

"Chookie" wrote in message
In article "Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote:

Oh come on! Sydney people wouldn't know a water shortage if it
bit
them on the arse. They only think they do.

Frankly, you don't either. Talk to a Sudanese refugee some time.
It's all a
matter of degree.

Well of course it's a matter of degree! However, I dare say I have a
much better idea about drought than some Sydney dweller who only has
to turn on a tap to get water.

And we aren't talking about Sudan. We are talking about Australia.
Sydney people should try living under the regimes in say Goulburn or
Byrock where the residents recently went for 4 and a half days without
water. They don't kick up a fuss because their water is taken from
hundreds of miles away to feed their gawping needs.

Again, not in my experience. They lack the sort of curiosity and
solution orientation of country people. They have everything
handed
to them on a platter and so don't have to come up with innovative
or
real life solutions or have to spend time thinking about things
that
country people do. This country approach I have always found
flows
over into broader mainstream approaches to world politics and
foreign
affairs.

Contry people being well-known for the speed with which they embrace
change...

:-))) Nice job of stereotyping.

Lord knows where they
thought (if they did think at all) of where their food came
from.

again speaking for sydney - most fresh food there is grown in
the
sydney basin - it's local :-) (for now, anyway). again, it seems
to take a
crisis (farmland possibly being taken away for development) for
people to
realise what might be lost. argh!

Not so! You have either not been out of the city long enough or
have
just proved my point about where city people think their food
comes
from.

Depends exactly what Otterbot means.

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important,
particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten in
Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney
basin is
worth $1 billion.'

The Syney basin IS important for agriculture (one of my Grandfathers
was a market gardener at Botany so I DO know of the importance of this
area). However it is not the be all and end all that Otterbot seems
to think it is. And the ABS figure for the value of annual
agriculture in the Sydney basin is $450 million rather than the $1
billion mentioned by the Professor.

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change
long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead
boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their
land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year I
did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the greenhouse
effect.

Really 1987! Bit slow off the mark.

Those stereotypically slow to accept change country people you think
so little of, first noticed such issues as salinity about a century
ago and they noticed dryland salinity in the mid 1920s. And farmers
in the WA SW first noticed and started commenting on the start of the
change to rainfall patterns in the 1970s. My own family also started
to talk of the decline in rainfall on their farm in NSW about the same
time and they live in a high rainfall area on the same farm which was
first settled by my GGGfather in 1862. The rainfall record books are
fascinating reading and especially during WWII when the women took
over for some reason.

And you may be interested in another book called "Planning for
sustainable farming: the Potter farmland plan story". This book was
published in 1991 but it records the work on a goup of farms that
started in 1983.

I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans.
He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s.
The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open
Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on
his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All
that
knowledge was around even then.

http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park.

I already have it and have seen the farm.

Unfortunately the author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like
they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Yes it does but then a lot of publications sound like that.

Google PA Yeomans for the goss on him.

His first publication on Keyline was in 1954. You can view it he
http://www.soilandhealth.org/01aglib...010125toc.html

"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Farm1" please@askifyouwannaknow wrote in message
"Jen" wrote in message
"Ms Leebee" wrote in
message
wrote:
Terryc wrote:
What a thick dipstick.
So, what is the difference between the water running
continuously in
the hand basin whilst you shave and/or clean your teeth
and
it
running continuously in the shower for the extra time it
takes
to
shave and/or clean your teeth,.

The idea is that you don't run the water continuously while
shaving
or brushing your teeth.

A lot of people do.


I thought it had been drummed into everyone pretty well not to
run
water
while brushing, not to hose driveways, and not to water lawns.
I'm
just
shocked that people still do these things.

You are using a "one size fits all" answer to a question you
didn't
even bother asking.


There was no question! That was a statement!

Yes. Exactly my point.

That doesn't make sense. There was no question to ask!

:-)))))) There is but I won't tell you what it is.

"Terryc" wrote in message
Chookie wrote:

http://www.liverpool.nsw.gov.au/scri....asp?NID=27077

Includes the following information from someone at UWS:

'³Agricultural land around Sydney is critically important,
particularly when
you consider that 90 per cent of the perishable vegetables eaten
in Sydney and
40 per cent of NSW¹s eggs are produced right here,² Parker says.

Egg production isn't agriculture in my books. It is a highy
industrialised process and utilises a highly processed feed stock.
If
you remove the electricity supply, chickens start dieing real fast.

Unfortunately, the boxes of goods at the market do not reflect this
90%.
I suspect that the good old prof has drawn a very fine line as to
what
are "perishable vegetables" and is probably thinking things like
some
chinese veges, etc.


Parker says that the farm gate value of agriculture in the Sydney
basin is
worth $1 billion.'

Over what period? A year? Works out to be $1.40 per person per day,
which is not much.

And what do they define as agriculture?
Does this "agriculture" include nurseries for example?


I wonder if he included the Ingams body factories? They'd have to be
pushing out a fortune in chook meat.

Farmers were talking about Global warming and climate change
long
before the bulk of the population. Only the real lunatic city
fringe were talking about those things when I knew of dead
boring and
very conservative farmers who'd noticed the impact on their
land.

When?

I bought my copy of Blueprint for a Green Planet in 1987, the year
I did my
HSC (in a middle-class suburb), and it has a page on the
greenhouse effect.


I suggest you do two things. Do some reading up on P.A. Yeomans.
He
was a farmer whose published material goes back to the mid 1950s.
The
second thing is to look at the 2006-07 copy of the ABCs "Open
Garden
Scheme", page 22 on Lyndfield Park. That farmer started work on
his
farm in 1982 and even then what he was doing was not unique. All
that
knowledge was around even then.


http://gunningnsw.info/index.php/articles/483
will get you the booklet on Lyndfield Park. Unfortunately the
author doesn't
say where he got his ideas from, but some of the ideas sound like
they are out
of the Permaculture Design Manual.

Lol, children. Permaculture was a product of the work of david
Holmgren
in the 70s and includes the work of Yeomans, including one book from
1958.

Exactly so! I believe it was "The Challenge of Landscape".

He also used the 1963 book by Lord called "The Care of the Earth".
I've always been rather surprised that Louis Bromfield's "Malabar
Farm" (1948) didn't somehow make it into the Bibliography given what a
seminal work that was.